Americans- how do you view them?

[Denverdog]

We interrupt this arguement to bring you the following the following promotional announcement:

Due to the overwhelming popularity of this arguement (the only threads with more reads contain naked women) Chicken Treat has decided to become the sponsor of this here fine arguement. Remember Chicken Treat when you think about argueing. UMM UMM good!

We now return to the continuing arguement between NY-Pomme and Denverdog.

Well I see that whatever problems may have been on the system eliminated my last post. I'm sure you remember what it said Pomme. If not I'll repeat it.
I have a question however. If, as you say, England hasn't existed as a country for the last 300 years then why is it allowed to enter it's own team into the WC? I mean Wales and Scotland are able to submit teams as well. Why? The World Cup hasn't been going on for the last 300 years so why would they allow that?

 

[Molky Saint]

A bit of a stereotypical thread as if all Americans had the same traits and qualities. You determine whether or not you admire or like somebody-not by country, race, colour et al but on their qualities as a person. But you certainly never (or at least try not) to judge. Their government however might be a different story.

 

[NYPomme]

Originally posted by Denverdog
We interrupt this arguement to bring you the following the following promotional announcement:

Due to the overwhelming popularity of this arguement (the only threads with more reads contain naked women) Chicken Treat has decided to become the sponsor of this here fine arguement. Remember Chicken Treat when you think about argueing. UMM UMM good!

We now return to the continuing arguement between NY-Pomme and Denverdog.

Well I see that whatever problems may have been on the system eliminated my last post. I'm sure you remember what it said Pomme. If not I'll repeat it.
I have a question however. If, as you say, England hasn't existed as a country for the last 300 years then why is it allowed to enter it's own team into the WC? I mean Wales and Scotland are able to submit teams as well. Why? The World Cup hasn't been going on for the last 300 years so why would they allow that?

 

[NYPomme]

Originally posted by Denverdog

Well I see that whatever problems may have been on the system eliminated my last post. I'm sure you remember what it said Pomme. If not I'll repeat it.
I have a question however. If, as you say, England hasn't existed as a country for the last 300 years then why is it allowed to enter it's own team into the WC? I mean Wales and Scotland are able to submit teams as well. Why? The World Cup hasn't been going on for the last 300 years so why would they allow that?

Most people will know the answer to this, DenverDog - but I'll explain it for you.

The United Kingdom is the nation (sometimes referred to as Great Britain and Northern Ireland).

England is a PROVINCE of the Union - that constitutes - along with Northern Ireland, Wales, and Scotland - the United Kingdom.
The UK or GB&N.I. is the legal-political entity - that is recognised internationally as a NATION.

To answer your question re: the world cup. I think the answer has to be found in history/tradition. As you may be aware the following sports were invented in the UK.

Tennis
Golf
Association Football (Soccer to americans)
Rugby (from which you get the bastardised version = american 'football')
Cricket and Rounders (from which you get the bastardised version = baseball)
Netball (from which you get the bastardised version = basketball)
plus a whole host of others.....


As a result most of the oldest/olde fixtures in most sports exist between England and the other provinces - these historic games continue to be played as part of 'international competition' (worldcup) even though they are not nations in a legal-political sense. This is why you have a BRITISH EMBASSY, BRITISH ARMY, BRITISH NATIONALS/CITIZENS etc.....

I'm actually surprised you didn't know this since you cited Northern Ireland in your previous posts. The majority protestants predominately favour British sovereignty - therefore for Northern Ireland to remain a BRITISH PROVINCE (termed UNIONISTS). Most of the minority catholics disagree - instead favouring a United Irish Republic (termed REPUBLICANS = not to be confued with your Goerge W's Party).

Hope that answers your question......

 

[BTige]

Liberal-democrat? Talk about a red rag to a bull.

You forgot darts and crown green bowls........na thin b*gger lugs all sithi!

 

[Denverdog]

Originally posted by NYPomme

I'm actually surprised you didn't know this since you cited Northern Ireland in your previous posts. The majority protestants predominately favour British sovereignty - therefore for Northern Ireland to remain a BRITISH PROVINCE (termed UNIONISTS). Most of the minority catholics disagree - instead favouring a United Irish Republic (termed REPUBLICANS = not to be confued with your Goerge W's Party).

Hope that answers your question......

Actually my question on this point is why can't give up N. Ireland? I mean if you can give India back and Kenya back then why can't you just leave N. Ireland?
By the way since you pointed out that Korea and Vietnam would love to thank us for "protecting them" I would like to extend the thanks of India, Kenya, Egypt and the Falkland Islands to the UK for their role in helping defend freedom around the world. You can bring up whatever you like about America's involvement around the world and I'm sure that I can cite *** for tat something equally unhappy about the British Empire er... I mean the UK.
Also if you care to deny the post go ahead. Anyone who saw it prior to the crash of this website will rmember it. I'm sure there are quite a number of people who do since there are so many reads on this thread.

 

[BTige]

If only giving up Ulster was that easy. What do you suppose would be the reaction of the majority if the UK finally decided enough was enough? Imagine the bloodshed!

How about giving the native americans their former lands back whilst we're at it.

 

[NYPomme]

Originally posted by BTige
If only giving up Ulster was that easy. What do you suppose would be the reaction of the majority if the UK finally decided enough was enough? Imagine the bloodshed!

How about giving the native americans their former lands back whilst we're at it.

For someone who has attacked Europeans as non-democratic, your comments look particularly stupid, Denver Dog!

Still can't understand the comment about N.I. world cup though!

 

[Denverdog]

Originally posted by NYPomme

Still can't understand the comment about N.I. world cup though!

You understand it quite well. You just don't want to admit the point. FIFA only admits countries into the WC. England enters it's own team therefore it is a seperate country and not just a "province" of the UK as you put it.
I noticed that you completely ignored my points about Kenya, India, Egypt, and the falkland Islands. Typical since you refuse to acknowledge the UK's presence around the world while at the same time attacking the US's presence.
As for giving the Indians their land back, why should we? Given the history of the World it would be nigh impossible to give back all of the land to all of the original inhabitants all over the world. Why should we do anything the rest of the World isn't willing to do. My point in bringing up N.I. is this: the UK is no different than the US! When the UK decides that it doesn't like something somewhere else in the World they use their military might just like we do. The UK is in the Balkans, they are in Afghanistan, and they are in N.I. So don't give me any crap about how the US is running around dropping too many bombs all over the place. We're not the only ones doing it. It would be nice if our European counterparts would just admit to the truth. Problem is that would be admitting to being just like the US and they don't wanrt to have to do that.

 

[BTige]

Originally posted by Denverdog


You understand it quite well. You just don't want to admit the point. FIFA only admits countries into the WC. England enters it's own team therefore it is a seperate country and not just a "province" of the UK as you put it.
I noticed that you completely ignored my points about Kenya, India, Egypt, and the falkland Islands. Typical since you refuse to acknowledge the UK's presence around the world while at the same time attacking the US's presence.
As for giving the Indians their land back, why should we? Given the history of the World it would be nigh impossible to give back all of the land to all of the original inhabitants all over the world. Why should we do anything the rest of the World isn't willing to do. My point in bringing up N.I. is this: the UK is no different than the US! When the UK decides that it doesn't like something somewhere else in the World they use their military might just like we do. The UK is in the Balkans, they are in Afghanistan, and they are in N.I. So don't give me any crap about how the US is running around dropping too many bombs all over the place. We're not the only ones doing it. It would be nice if our European counterparts would just admit to the truth. Problem is that would be admitting to being just like the US and they don't wanrt to have to do that.

The UK isn't in NI, the six counties of Ulster are part of the UK, a part of the island of Ireland which wishes to stay within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The only alternative would be to carve up the six counties and Belfast. Derry, Tyrone and Fermanagh would become part of the RoI, Antrim, Armagh and Down would stay within the UK. Most of west Belfast would become part of the RoI, surrounded by Protestant area's of north and east Belfast.

It's beginning to look like Cyprus or the divided Berlin.

 

[NYPomme]

Originally posted by BTige


The UK isn't in NI, the six counties of Ulster are part of the UK, a part of the island of Ireland which wishes to stay within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The only alternative would be to carve up the six counties and Belfast. Derry, Tyrone and Fermanagh would become part of the RoI, Antrim, Armagh and Down would stay within the UK. Most of west Belfast would become part of the RoI, surrounded by Protestant area's of north and east Belfast.

It's beginning to look like Cyprus or the divided Berlin.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ....I know ...what an idiot!!!!!!!!

The guy has a serious comprehension problem - but, given the thread, let's try not to tar all Americans with the same brush


He also seems to think that FIFA defines INTERNATIONAL boundaries. It gets better and better......

 

[BTige]

Originally posted by NYPomme


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ....I know ...what an idiot!!!!!!!!

The guy has a serious comprehension problem - but, given the thread, let's try not to tar all Americans with the same brush


He also seems to think that FIFA defines INTERNATIONAL boundaries. It gets better and better......

The thing is, like many of his countrymen, he'll keep coming back for more.

Mouth - engaged
Brain - no connection
Houston, we have a problem
Blast!

And I don't dislike all Americans, only the smeggin redneck Bubba types.

 

[Denverdog]

Originally posted by NYPomme


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ....I know ...what an idiot!!!!!!!!

The guy has a serious comprehension problem - but, given the thread, let's try not to tar all Americans with the same brush


He also seems to think that FIFA defines INTERNATIONAL boundaries. It gets better and better......

Actually it does get better and better. You consistantly go for easy flipant remarks when there are more damning points made against you. Anyone reading these posts can see what you are choosing to answer and what you are avoiding.
Obviously the only way you have out of this arguement now is to post:

"HA HA HA HA HA HA"

over and over.
It's a good thing Btige is here to save you. Otherwise you would have no response whatsoever.

 

[myee8]

On the whole i like the US and would like to go there some day and there's heaps of nice Americans i know blah, blah, but there's this US girl i know from uni and she is one f*ckin arragont b*itch and i want to knock her out. Most people i konw say the same too. Oh and i love Mandy Moore!!

 

[BTige]

NYpomme where are you? I can't handle this redneck all by myself.

 

[Roylion]

An interesting thread. However I couldn't let the following comments go past, without some sort of challenge

Originally posted by Denverdog
England and Ireland have been "fighting" for the last 300 years. It's just that everyone wants to keep it real quiet and not talk about it. Basically they are in the same situaution as the Isreali's and Palestinians. The history isn't the same but they're in the same boat. Neither side will ever quit.

I don't believe you can represent the Irish situation as the same situation as the Palestinians. The Irish people do have their own independent homeland and have had since 1922. The Palestinians don’t. In fact the English and Irish have been fighting for close to 850 years since Henry II invaded the country and attempted to make his youngest son Prince John (he of Robin Hood fame) King of Ireland, with the Pope’s blessing of course. Since then the English settlers of Ireland have attempted to subdue the native peoples.

On Jan 15th 1922 the Irish Free State was established. The 6 counties in the north, which were largely British settlers were given their own limited self- government and in 1925 the Irish Free State, the British government and the Northern Ireland provincial government, which was dominated by Unionists, (who favored the continuation of the Union) with Britain agreed on a border.

Originally posted by Denverdog
Actually my question on this point is why can't give up N. Ireland? I mean if you can give India back and Kenya back then why can't you just leave N. Ireland?

Because Northern Ireland by the wish of it's people and government wish to remain part of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland are free to leave the United Kingdom at any time.

In 1949, the British Parliament passed an act stating…."it is hereby declared that Northern Ireland remains part of His Majesty’s Dominions and of the United Kingdom and it is hereby affirmed that in no event will Northern Ireland or any part thereof cease to be a part of his Majesty’s Dominion and of the United Kingdom without the consent of the Parliament of Northern Ireland.”

To represent the recent Irish conflict as a war between Great Britain (UK) and Ireland is therefore incorrect.

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Denverdog
FIFA only admits countries into the WC. England enters it's own team therefore it is a seperate country and not just a "province" of the UK as you put it.

Again not strictly correct. FIFA admits football associations, which usually nowadays correspond with countries.

After the English Football Association which was formed in 1863, the next oldest are the Scottish FA (1873), the FA of Wales (1875) and the Irish FA (1880).

The next countries to form football associations after the Netherlands and Denmark in 1889 were New Zealand (1891), Argentina (1893), Chile (1895), Switzerland, Belgium (1895), Italy (1898), Germany, Uruguay (both in 1900), Hungary (1901) and Finland (1907).

When FIFA was formed in 1904, the English Football Association joined in shortly after the formation in the same year. The Welsh Football Association, the Scottish Football Association and the Irish Football Association joined in 1905.

That's why there are English, Scottish and Welsh teams even though the United Kingdom is one country.

 

[BTige]

Don't forget that many of those who settled in Ulster were from Scotland and were protestants. Where did the Scots originally come from?

The Scots were originally inhabitants of Ireland who began to settle in coastal areas of northwestern Britain in the 5th century. Many Scots from Dalriada (An ancient Irish kingdom in modern day county Antrim) settled in modern day Argyle. They eventually conquered the hitherto dominant Picts in the 9th century.

In the case of co Antrim, you could argue that those Scots were resettling in their former kingdom.

 

[Denverdog]

Originally posted by Roylion
An interesting thread. However I couldn't let the following comments go past, without some sort of challenge



I don't believe you can represent the Irish situation as the same situation as the Palestinians. The Irish people do have their own independent homeland and have had since 1922. The Palestinians don’t. In fact the English and Irish have been fighting for close to 850 years since Henry II invaded the country and attempted to make his youngest son Prince John (he of Robin Hood fame) King of Ireland, with the Pope’s blessing of course. Since then the English settlers of Ireland have attempted to subdue the native peoples.

On Jan 15th 1922 the Irish Free State was established. The 6 counties in the north, which were largely British settlers were given their own limited self- government and in 1925 the Irish Free State, the British government and the Northern Ireland provincial government, which was dominated by Unionists, (who favored the continuation of the Union) with Britain agreed on a border.




Because Northern Ireland by the wish of it's people and government wish to remain part of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland are free to leave the United Kingdom at any time.

In 1949, the British Parliament passed an act stating…."it is hereby declared that Northern Ireland remains part of His Majesty’s Dominions and of the United Kingdom and it is hereby affirmed that in no event will Northern Ireland or any part thereof cease to be a part of his Majesty’s Dominion and of the United Kingdom without the consent of the Parliament of Northern Ireland.”

To represent the recent Irish conflict as a war between Great Britain (UK) and Ireland is therefore incorrect.

I never said that the situation was exactly the same. In fact in my own words "the history isn't the same but they are in the same boat, neither side will quit." Your post makes it quite clear however what the real situation in Ireland is. The only reason that Northern Ireland doesn't want to become a part of the rest of Ireland is because they aren't Irish. They are the loyalist's. They are basically Brits with no ties to Ireland except for the land that they own.
I don't need a history lesson on Ireland. My family is Scottish and I am quite familiar with the History of England, Great Britain, and the UK. The real truth to the situation is this. The UK can give back India, it can give back Kenya but by God they're not going to give back N.I. Isn't that funny? It's called Northern Ireland. What the hell is wrong with leaving Ireland to the Irish? I don't know what the problem with England is they won't let the Argentinians have the Falkland Islands and they certainly won't let the Irish have ALL of Ireland.
As for FIFA and the soccer teams I really couldn't care less. I only bait Pomme with stuff like that because his responses are so predictable. Give him an easy point and a hard point in the same post and he will take the easy one and ignore the hard one every time. Pomme and other anti-American posters have the same blind belief that Americans are ignorant of world events/history. It's funny because they are actually as ignorant of Americans as they claim Americans are of the rest of the World.

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Denverdog


I never said that the situation was exactly the same. In fact in my own words "the history isn't the same but they are in the same boat, neither side will quit." Your post makes it quite clear however what the real situation in Ireland is. The only reason that Northern Ireland doesn't want to become a part of the rest of Ireland is because they aren't Irish. They are the loyalist's. They are basically Brits with no ties to Ireland except for the land that they own.

You stated....."Basically they are in the same situaution as the Isreali's and Palestinians. The history isn't the same but they're in the same boat."

The Irish and Palestinians aren't in the same boat at all. You can't compare the Irish situation with the Palestinian situation at all, as there are very few similarities, as I have already explained.

Originally posted by Denverdog

I don't need a history lesson on Ireland. My family is Scottish and I am quite familiar with the History of England, Great Britain, and the UK. The real truth to the situation is this. The UK can give back India, it can give back Kenya but by God they're not going to give back N.I. Isn't that funny? It's called Northern Ireland. What the hell is wrong with leaving Ireland to the Irish? I don't know what the problem with England is they won't let the Argentinians have the Falkland Islands and they certainly won't let the Irish have ALL of Ireland.

I've already explained why. If you don't need a history lesson on Ireland, you should already understand the reasons why England supposedly doesn't 'give' Northern Ireland back. Northern Ireland is free to leave the United Kingdom at any time. It just needs a vote of the North Irish Parliament.

You should also understand then why India and Kenya were given their independence.

My father's family is originally from Enniskillen in Northern Ireland My grandfather migrated to Australia in 1922, the year of the establishment of the Irish Free State, eventually living in Fitzroy, Melbourne. I also have a Masters qualification in British history, specialising in English, Scottish and Irish history from AD 1000-1500. I like to think I have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the Irish situation and comparing the Irish situation to the Palestinians is incorrect. They are vastly different.

Originally posted by Denverdog

As for FIFA and the soccer teams I really couldn't care less. I only bait Pomme with stuff like that because his responses are so predictable. Give him an easy point and a hard point in the same post and he will take the easy one and ignore the hard one every time. Pomme and other anti-American posters have the same blind belief that Americans are ignorant of world events/history. It's funny because they are actually as ignorant of Americans as they claim Americans are of the rest of the World.

You asked the question and I answered it.

 

[Mobbs]

I thought soccer was invented in China?

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by Roylion
You should also understand then why India and Kenya were given their independence.

While I'm on a roll with non-researched, no degrees, senseless one-sentence replies, it was also my impression, or at least Attenborough's that Ghandi was the driving force behind India's independance ... or was that the force behind Hindustan's split ... or was it both?

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer


While I'm on a roll with non-researched, no degrees, senseless one-sentence replies, it was also my impression, or at least Attenborough's that Ghandi was the driving force behind India's independance ... or was that the force behind Hindustan's split ... or was it both?

As far as I can remember, Indian nationalism existed before Gandhi did. There was an Indian National Congress formed in about the 1880's in response to repressive laws under British vice-regal governors. Then Bengal was partitioned and opposition to that saw nationalism grow in leaps and bounds. In response to terrorist acts the partition was revoked and the British brought in many reforms to try and placate the Indian population. In World War I, Indian troops made a name for themselves, dispelling the myth of racial inequality. After the war the British, as a reward for Indian support, made efforts to involve native Indians in the government of India and by about 1920 the Indian government was essentially a parliamentary democracy (under the British crown though). Certainly in Britain, there was a push to give India, Dominion status, (like Australia, Canada and NZ) and in the mid-30's the Congress of India was set up. The Labour Party in Britain tended to be on the whole more sympathetic to Indian independence.

From my understanding Gandhi was an important figure in India's independence but he wasn't the only one.

Again the Indian situation is different from the Irish one. The Indian Congress pushed for independence, along with independent leaders like Gandhi and Nehru.

The Northern Ireland parliament can leave Great Britain at any time and to date has not. British troops in Northern Ireland are therefore defending part of their nation.

 

[BTige]

Originally posted by Denverdog


Pomme and other anti-American posters have the same blind belief that Americans are ignorant of world events/history. It's funny because they are actually as ignorant of Americans as they claim Americans are of the rest of the World.

Americans are more ignorant of the World around them, believe me, I once lived in Atlanta.

The news bulletins are atrocious, that includes all radio and most television. If you don't have cable or satellite you have no chance.

Thank God for the BBC........I can't believe I said that! I hate the BEEB, but compared to NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and CNN, Auntie looks like a very balanced and comprehensive news gathering organisation. In fact ITN and Sky News are superior to the American networks.