AMPOL State of Origin 2025

[phantom13]

At times yeah I’d agree with that. I think I doesn’t have a long passing game like maybe Thurston used to, he relies heavily on hitting the next player in line on a certain angle, or the second man, rather than being able to bring a player into the game who is in space a bit wider in a more unstructured way when nothing is on. I do think his running game is pretty underrated though, you could see a few times last night he just knew that he was getting nothing from his team and took it upon himself to try and make something happen.

I think if there’s one thing he needs, it’s arrogance. Might sound a bit odd, but he defers too much to lesser players sometimes. He’s been praised a lot over the years for knowing when to let Luai or Koroisau or whoever do their thing, but he needs to maybe just start to think ‘I have won all these titles for a reason’ and just demand the ball and bark orders come hell or high water

Yeh i reckon that all pretty fair analysis fwiw.

Bang on for his running game too, its very very good.

 

[Stottzy]

Is there an AFL equivalent for AFL fans reading this thread?

Jake Stringer. Can do something incredible, then 2 quarters later you forget he is even playing.

 

[phantom13]

Jake Stringer. Can do something incredible, then 2 quarters later you forget he is even playing.

Actually thats a good one.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeh i reckon that all pretty fair analysis fwiw.

Bang on for his running game too, its very very good.

Cheers mate. It’s what made Wally such a good player in the rep games like he obviously had great players around him but he knew when it was just his time and he was a strong ball runner and would just have the ‘stuff it I’ll do it myself’ approach and Cleary could do with a bit of that more often I reckon. He is a stronger guy than people give him credit for and breaks a lot of tackles, who knows maybe he could benefit from having Moses there to do a bit more organising so he can run a bit more.

I rate Luai as a guy who loves a scrap and in a really close game ‘finds a way’ to have an impact but he’s probably not going to be the man to set up a heap of tries or turn in a man of the match performance too often at that level

 

[Paul Kersey]

Jake Stringer. Can do something incredible, then 2 quarters later you forget he is even playing.

100%. Not adverse to turning up looking like he’s ignored the club dietitian’s advice over summer too.

 

[phantom13]

Cheers mate. It’s what made Wally such a good player in the rep games like he obviously had great players around him but he knew when it was just his time and he was a strong ball runner and would just have the ‘stuff it I’ll do it myself’ approach and Cleary could do with a bit of that more often I reckon. He is a stronger guy than people give him credit for and breaks a lot of tackles, who knows maybe he could benefit from having Moses there to do a bit more organising so he can run a bit more.

I rate Luai as a guy who loves a scrap and in a really close game ‘finds a way’ to have an impact but he’s probably not going to be the man to set up a heap of tries or turn in a man of the match performance too often at that level

As much as i cant stand Luai i reckon youre right, he is always up for a fight and always brings energy and business that sometimes Cleary can look like he lacks.

Its interesting if there was a knock on the Dearden/Munster paring it was that they are both running halves and the DCE counter was that he is a kick/pass half. I reckon it also the Cleary/Moses concern for a long time too.

Ultimately to me having two guys who CAN run and CAN kick just gives you more flexibilty and unpredictability. Munster or Dearden can run a 4th or even 5th tackle run and not be worried about not being in the line for the kick. NSW had that in game 1 and probably lacked it a little in 2 and 3.

100%. Not adverse to turning up looking like he’s ignored the club dietitian’s advice over summer too.

I heard a funny story about Trell from a few years back. He had Australian duties and then the All Stars pre season game and under the CBA technically didnt have to do any pre season training because of the no contact requirements.

His club sent him a voluntary running program (mostly to help weight management), its was a sharefile thing and the training staff could see that he never opened it.

Came back to clubland the week of round 1 in absolutely horrendous shape, essentially played games as his "training block" for about 12 weeks to try and get in some sort of shape.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; the Bunker should be able to rule on forward passes. They manage to do it now in RU, so there's no reason we can't. They are happy to write off tries for the tiniest infraction, a foot six inches in front of the ball, etc, but obvious forward passes go unremarked.

Apparently being looked at via microchip technology, whether it's implemented who on earth knows. Though not sure I want more Bunker mess. Prossibly prepared to live with a forward pass or two to be honest unless the technology is 100% accurate.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

One thing I will say with Cleary and please don't take this as a shot against Robson okay who is fine and always is fine.

Would Cleary be as one dimensional with say Api at 9 or even Brailey who is probably the next long term one? Robson offers diddly squat from dummy half other than a tackling bag. He tackles yippee, pity he creates nothing. Now none of these options are Grant, but for goodness sakes it helps if your 9 is creating at the line, it's giving your halfback more time. QLD were not worried about Robson creating at all so they were sending 2 plus at Cleary every time

 

[phantom13]

One thing I will say with Cleary and please don't take this as a shot against Robson okay who is fine and always is fine.

Would Cleary be as one dimensional with say Api at 9 or even Brailey who is probably the next long term one? Robson offers diddly squat from dummy half other than a tackling bag. He tackles yippee, pity he creates nothing. Now none of these options are Grant, but for goodness sakes it helps if your 9 is creating at the line, it's giving your halfback more time. QLD were not worried about Robson creating at all so they were sending 2 plus at Cleary every time

I think it speaks to Cleary and the whole “system player” thing.

Cleary didn’t seem to have a second option last night he does what he does but he doesn’t have a another mode. Robson is a bit the same, truthfully with the exception of Latrell there isn’t a lot of unpredictability in that NSW team.

Robson had a few dummy half scoots and second option passes but half the Queensland team has something dynamic about them that NSW just seems to lack imo.

Moses was a real point of difference imo. His unpredictability was missed.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I think it speaks to Cleary and the whole “system player” thing.

Cleary didn’t seem to have a second option last night he does what he does but he doesn’t have a another mode. Robson is a bit the same, truthfully with the exception of Latrell there isn’t a lot of unpredictability in that NSW team.

Robson had a few dummy half scoots and second option passes but half the Queensland team has something dynamic about them that NSW just seems to lack imo.

Moses was a real point of difference imo. His unpredictability was missed.

Edwards at fullback is an issue too, I feel people read way too much into last year when QLD had like 6 middles all injured yet despite that it still wasn’t a sweep.

For me I can’t believe Api wasn’t picked. It’s too soon for Brailey.

Next year surely it has to be Katoa and Moses? Surely.

The fullback one is harder can Trell do Origin FB I have my doubts then again on Paps body.

 

[PhatBoy]

Edwards at fullback is an issue too, I feel people read way too much into last year when QLD had like 6 middles all injured yet despite that it still wasn’t a sweep.

For me I can’t believe Api wasn’t picked. It’s too soon for Brailey.

Next year surely it has to be Katoa and Moses? Surely.

The fullback one is harder can Trell do Origin FB I have my doubts then again on Paps body.

Surely Moses and Katoa? Why? What does Moses do that is better than Cleary? Not that I’m heavily invested because I don’t go for the blues but I wouldn’t see a problem with them picking Katoa but even last year when he was allegedly the saviour, Moses’ standout game was game II where let’s be honest, any halfback could have stood out. The entire NSW team dominated. In game 3 it was actually luia who on paper at least produced the better game.

If they picked Moses and Cleary together I could see the point of it but leaving Cleary out because he was one of the best on field in game one, and had two so-so games seems a pretty big overreaction when in one of those two games, there isn’t a half in the league who could have done a thing about it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Agree with the Edwards call. He offers very little by way of creativity. Tedesco is still to me the most dangerous attacking fullback even if he doesn’t pass enough

 

[phantom13]

Personally I don’t think Edwards is the problem. He’s a meter eater off kicks and just solid as **** all round. I think the issue is that Edwards, Cleary, Luai and all the forwards are “safe”. Edwards sets such a great platform but NSW needs some more X factor around him. You can definitely change Edwards for someone more dynamic but I don’t think he’s the problem.

Queensland has got Munster, Dearden, Hammer and really Grant and Tino as X factor players who are unpredictable and then Toia, Coates, Holmes and the Shibasaki or whoever that are just really reliable, solid and sure.

My point is I think Queensland has the x-factor/safe hands balance right that NSW doesn’t but I’m also not sure who should be the changed. Katoa is X factor, so is Paps but are BOTH those changes too much?

 

[PhatBoy]

Personally I don’t think Edwards is the problem. He’s a meter eater off kicks and just solid as **** all round. I think the issue is that Edwards, Cleary, Luai and all the forwards are “safe”. Edwards sets such a great platform but NSW needs some more X factor around him. You can definitely change Edwards for someone more dynamic but I don’t think he’s the problem.

Queensland has got Munster, Dearden, Hammer and really Grant and Tino as X factor players who are unpredictable and then Toia, Coates, Holmes and the Shibasaki or whoever that are just really reliable, solid and sure.

My point is I think Queensland has the x-factor/safe hands balance right that NSW doesn’t but I’m also not sure who should be the changed. Katoa is X factor, so is Paps but are BOTH those changes too much?

Agree with pretty much all of this but just want to highlight something:

F**k Toia was good.

We’ve unearthed a diamond this year - well two really with Nawaqanitawase but Toia is as solid as a rock. About 5 times last night it looked like he was going to be found out by Mitchell but every time he got hands to him he brought him to ground.

He misses a few in total, relative to other outside backs but he goes looking for them - he made 20 tackles last night (missed 4)

Next most for either team was Crichton out of either back 5 and he missed three; and he’s regarded as like the best defensive centre of the modern game. And he’s not marking Latrell Mitchell he’s marking Shibasaki.

Toia made 20 in game 2 as well (next most was 10 from either back five), and 24 (missed 3) in game 1 (next most was 18 with 4 missed from Crichton.

And remember this is a guy who’s played a dozen first grade games.

Think he will be a fixture there for a long time

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Surely Moses and Katoa? Why? What does Moses do that is better than Cleary? Not that I’m heavily invested because I don’t go for the blues but I wouldn’t see a problem with them picking Katoa but even last year when he was allegedly the saviour, Moses’ standout game was game II where let’s be honest, any halfback could have stood out. The entire NSW team dominated. In game 3 it was actually luia who on paper at least produced the better game.

If they picked Moses and Cleary together I could see the point of it but leaving Cleary out because he was one of the best on field in game one, and had two so-so games seems a pretty big overreaction when in one of those two games, there isn’t a half in the league who could have done a thing about it.

Moses wins at Origin level. How many more times do we need to see that Cleary doesn’t. Good reason nsw won last year was Moses at halfback. Katoa has to be there most dangerous half nsw have

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Personally I don’t think Edwards is the problem. He’s a meter eater off kicks and just solid as **** all round. I think the issue is that Edwards, Cleary, Luai and all the forwards are “safe”. Edwards sets such a great platform but NSW needs some more X factor around him. You can definitely change Edwards for someone more dynamic but I don’t think he’s the problem.

Queensland has got Munster, Dearden, Hammer and really Grant and Tino as X factor players who are unpredictable and then Toia, Coates, Holmes and the Shibasaki or whoever that are just really reliable, solid and sure.

My point is I think Queensland has the x-factor/safe hands balance right that NSW doesn’t but I’m also not sure who should be the changed. Katoa is X factor, so is Paps but are BOTH those changes too much?

Paps deserves selection next year. Way better form AND more dynamic at least would give something in attack. Sure Edwards makes metres I guess but he’s as creative as a turtle in attack. I had no issue them sticking with him this year but that’s about it.

The whole forwards mix was putrid- and Freddy had more of an idea how to use a bench (not a compliment lol). I mean Young was near NSW’s best forward in game 2 bar Haas and doesn’t play till the 57th minute?

Surely KK is better than Stefano lol though a drunk bloke at the local pub could tell you that.

 

[benbrown]

I find everything about NRL/Rugby League kind of different/a bit of a culture shock. Obviously the game itself, but the atmosphere at games (fireworks, cheerleaders etc, at least at AAMI park), even the commentary. Somehow they sound even more Aussie and blokey than AFL ones. It's interesting though.

Really wish still the best we had AFL State of Origin again.

Nothing more embarrassing than watching Gallen try to talk smack advertising some boxing match absolutely no one is purchasing Stan to watch. The second-hand embarrassment was the cherry on top of a lovely night.
Qld put on a clinic tonight - simple plans executed perfectly. Very surprised.

Hope that’s the end of Ponga, looked much better without him

That was embarrassing for nine that crap with the fake sledging

 

[phantom13]

Agree with pretty much all of this but just want to highlight something:

F**k Toia was good.

We’ve unearthed a diamond this year - well two really with Nawaqanitawase but Toia is as solid as a rock. About 5 times last night it looked like he was going to be found out by Mitchell but every time he got hands to him he brought him to ground.

He misses a few in total, relative to other outside backs but he goes looking for them - he made 20 tackles last night (missed 4)

Next most for either team was Crichton out of either back 5 and he missed three; and he’s regarded as like the best defensive centre of the modern game. And he’s not marking Latrell Mitchell he’s marking Shibasaki.

Toia made 20 in game 2 as well (next most was 10 from either back five), and 24 (missed 3) in game 1 (next most was 18 with 4 missed from Crichton.

And remember this is a guy who’s played a dozen first grade games.

Think he will be a fixture there for a long time

Toia, Shibasaki, Talaugi out too. Plus Coates, Holmes then Hammer/Walsh. We’re pretty blessed to be able to play centers and wings for the most part in their natural spots.

Moses wins at Origin level. How many more times do we need to see that Cleary doesn’t. Good reason nsw won last year was Moses at halfback. Katoa has to be there most dangerous half nsw have

This is wildly overly simplistic tbh. Cleary wins at every level. I’d suspect if anything they’d run Katoa with Cleary before Moses.

Paps deserves selection next year. Way better form AND more dynamic at least would give something in attack. Sure Edwards makes metres I guess but he’s as creative as a turtle in attack. I had no issue them sticking with him this year but that’s about it.

The whole forwards mix was putrid- and Freddy had more of an idea how to use a bench (not a compliment lol). I mean Young was near NSW’s best forward in game 2 bar Haas and doesn’t play till the 57th minute?

Surely KK is better than Stefano lol though a drunk bloke at the local pub could tell you that.

Yeh, again, I’m not sure Edwards is the issue. I think you need a mix of super solid and reliable and dynamic. Imagine if you had 5 Latrell’s playing on the back 5 last night, you’d have been rolled by 60. This is my point, Queensland last night had the perfect mix of solid defensively minded and then creative dynamic playmakers. NSW had too much beige (and the dynamic guys didn’t fire). Edwards just gives you such a good solid platform for every single play, I’m not sure he’s the guy to swap out personally but who knows

 

[benbrown]

I find everything about NRL/Rugby League kind of different/a bit of a culture shock. Obviously the game itself, but the atmosphere at games (fireworks, cheerleaders etc, at least at AAMI park), even the commentary. Somehow they sound even more Aussie and blokey than AFL ones. It's interesting though.

Really wish we had AFL State of Origin again.

State of origin was the best footy I’ve ever seen with just champions wherever you looked,it will never come back properly becouse the passion was lost and clubs will never treat it as number 1 like nrl do.

 

[PhatBoy]

Moses wins at Origin level. How many more times do we need to see that Cleary doesn’t. Good reason nsw won last year was Moses at halfback. Katoa has to be there most dangerous half nsw have

How many more times do you need to see that he does?

Moses has won 4 from 6, well done. Cleary is 7 from 16 and 5 of those 9 losses were before he’d even turned 23.

In Moses first crack at it, he came in in 2021, Cleary had been there the first two games: they won both.
Moses returns and they lose.
In 2023 Cleary plays the first game and Qld win with two tries in the last 7 minutes. Luai is the standout of the two Blues halves.
Moses comes in game 2. The Blues get belted after being in the game at half time. Moses plays in the dead rubber win and doesn’t really contribute much.

So he’s 1/3 and hasn’t done much up until this point. Moses has his best career origin game in game 2, 2024 and does play well. Undoubtedly: unfortunately for his claims as a ‘winner’ so too does everyone else in a blue jersey. 4 of his teammates break 175 metres, Edwards breaks 200 and has 2 line breaks and a try assist, Haas nearly has 200 as well as 35 tackles without a miss, the Blues make 3 errors in 80 minutes, have 55 per cent of the ball, and miss just 6 tackles (Qld miss 28) in a laughably one sided game.

In game 3 Moses DOES play well, and scores the game sealing try. But it’s Jarome Liao who actually makes a crucial line break in addition to setting up the only other try of the game for Bradman Best, and Moses misses a quarter of the tackles he attempts for the match. Luai is also the only one of the pair that forces a drop out.

This year he shows up and gets outplayed by Cleary in the only match NSW won.


Is he really ‘a winner’ based on that? What about that screams that he’s a winner? Just seems that he’s a decent halfback that’s done his job well in teams that have been on top, same as Cleary - with Moses beside him, did his job in game 1 this year.

2021 Cleary wins the first two matches hands and heels setting up tries and line breaks and making them himself because - wait for it - his team is dominating.
2022 when 1-0 down who is it that turns it on and scores two tries, sets two more up.

In what world isn’t Cleary a ‘winner’.

I didn’t realise we’d turned into yanks so quickly.

 

[010203]

Class from To'o

 

[phantom13]

Class from To'o

View attachment 2364338

Yeh to’o seems like a legend.

Fwiw every story I’ve ever heard about Luai off field is positive. As much as I can’t stand the guy he’s probably a gem and just one of those “if he wore maroon I’d love him” sorts.

Paul Gallen can still **** right off though

 

[phantom13]

How many more times do you need to see that he does?

Moses has won 4 from 6, well done. Cleary is 7 from 16 and 5 of those 9 losses were before he’d even turned 23.

In Moses first crack at it, he came in in 2021, Cleary had been there the first two games: they won both.
Moses returns and they lose.
In 2023 Cleary plays the first game and Qld win with two tries in the last 7 minutes. Luai is the standout of the two Blues halves.
Moses comes in game 2. The Blues get belted after being in the game at half time. Moses plays in the dead rubber win and doesn’t really contribute much.

So he’s 1/3 and hasn’t done much up until this point. Moses has his best career origin game in game 2, 2024 and does play well. Undoubtedly: unfortunately for his claims as a ‘winner’ so too does everyone else in a blue jersey. 4 of his teammates break 175 metres, Edwards breaks 200 and has 2 line breaks and a try assist, Haas nearly has 200 as well as 35 tackles without a miss, the Blues make 3 errors in 80 minutes, have 55 per cent of the ball, and miss just 6 tackles (Qld miss 28) in a laughably one sided game.

In game 3 Moses DOES play well, and scores the game sealing try. But it’s Jarome Liao who actually makes a crucial line break in addition to setting up the only other try of the game for Bradman Best, and Moses misses a quarter of the tackles he attempts for the match. Luai is also the only one of the pair that forces a drop out.

This year he shows up and gets outplayed by Cleary in the only match NSW won.


Is he really ‘a winner’ based on that? What about that screams that he’s a winner? Just seems that he’s a decent halfback that’s done his job well in teams that have been on top, same as Cleary - with Moses beside him, did his job in game 1 this year.

2021 Cleary wins the first two matches hands and heels setting up tries and line breaks and making them himself because - wait for it - his team is dominating.
2022 when 1-0 down who is it that turns it on and scores two tries, sets two more up.

In what world isn’t Cleary a ‘winner’.

I didn’t realise we’d turned into yanks so quickly.

Yeh I have to agree with all this. I still think the “chemistry” and “balance” argument stands but if there’s one guy you’re not changing it’s Cleary.

I don’t think edwards should be changed but I’d swap Edwards in a heartbeat before Cleary.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeh to’o seems like a legend.

Fwiw every story I’ve ever heard about Luai off field is positive. As much as I can’t stand the guy he’s probably a gem and just one of those “if he wore maroon I’d love him” sorts.

Paul Gallen can still **** right off though

I met him in Bathurst during their trip here last year down the street and he was a legend. Got himself and 3 teammates to record a video for my partner’s son who is a mad panthers fanatic and was just awesome. I felt like the biggest f**kwit for asking but I didn’t want to miss the opportunity and he couldn’t have been more accomodating.

 

[phantom13]

I met him in Bathurst during their trip here last year down the street and he was a legend. Got himself and 3 teammates to record a video for my partner’s son who is a mad panthers fanatic and was just awesome. I felt like the biggest f**kwit for asking but I didn’t want to miss the opportunity and he couldn’t have been more accomodating.

I love hearing this stuff. Have heard a few similar stories. One about him hanging around at his sons game for an hour to meet and greet all the kids.

I still hate him