The Law Another Aboriginal Death in Custody

[Marcel Proust]

how about aboriginal women murdered by aboriginal men? people need to get a grip

How about it? Clearly that's bad too but white people are also prone to domestic violence

40 percent apparently in the USA police , according to the National Center for Women and Policing.

I have tried to get a grip and be balanced but the stats about Aboriginal jail ) death custody are pretty dark? No pun intended

 

[Sinjin Smith]

The leg sweep was fine. Put the little prick on the ground where he needed to be, because he was uncompliant. And I would have said the same thing if he was white, yellow, brown, or a multilcoloured genderless alien.

No the kid may have been and most likely was being a little smart arse and he mouthed off but as a cop there are much better ways to handle that. Remember he is cop with supposed training that should deescalate those situations, if he cant handle smack talk from a teenager without resorting to those actions he shouldn't be a cop.

 

[Frank Bunn]

This incident may not be the same as the American

But Aboriginal treatment by the police - is similar to minorities in the USA

If not worse

Australian Aboriginal people and African-Americans are both way overrepresented in the crime figures of their respective countries. Despite the headlines from individual abuse cases, in general the police in both countries tread more lightly when dealing with minorities.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Australian Aboriginal people and African-Americans are both way overrepresented in the crime figures of their respective countries. .

but I think what they are getting at, is 'why' are there so many of them in jail etc.

Is it cause they just happen to be assholes. Or are there other factors ?

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Australian Aboriginal people and African-Americans are both way overrepresented in the crime figures of their respective countries. Despite the headlines from individual abuse cases, in general the police in both countries tread more lightly when dealing with minorities.

Trying to work out the second sentence.

Could you please elaborate as I have read it that you think police go lightly on minorities and I don't want to misinterpret your comment?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

What if he cracked his skull?

Isn't that the theory why the coward punch is pretty bad - the head hitting the road / footpath

The back of the head.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

People carrying on like Aborigines are getting jailed for anything and everything on their first offence. I'd love to see a stat of how many times any juvenile fronts the courts before finally being locked up.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Trying to work out the second sentence.

Could you please elaborate as I have read it that you think police go lightly on minorities and I don't want to misinterpret your comment?

They do in WA, I used to witness it all the time for minor offences. Public drunkedness, abusing and assaulting people for not giving them money or a cigarette at 10am in the morning. The resulting police action would be a talking to and getting moved along or being given a lift home or taken to hospital.

Driving a vehicle missing a door, the bonnet or the windscreen, missing panels, with odd sized wheels, tyres that are down to wire and old whitey getting done for an indicator light not working.

 

[Frank Bunn]

but I think what they are getting at, is 'why' are there so many of them in jail etc.

Is it cause they just happen to be assholes. Or are there other factors ?

If they are vastly overrepresented in the crime figures it's a reasonable clue why so many are in jail. It's a complex issue why so many from the ethnic minorities turn to crime.

People are desperately trying to conflate the situation here with the US. How many Aboriginal deaths due to police are there each year?

 

[Caesar]

If they are vastly overrepresented in the crime figures it's a reasonable clue why so many are in jail.

That is a vast oversimplification given that the correlation between incarceration rates and crime rates is complex and multifactorial. Crime rates in most major categories are down anything from 30-50% since the mid-80s, but overall incarceration rates have more than doubled.

The manner in which those figures have moved over the period are exceedingly difficult to unpack and many intelligent people have devoted their entire lives to it without satisfactory resolution. However, as food for thought here are some changes between 1985 and 2018:

• Your average prisoner today receives a sentence 25% shorter, but spends 60% longer in gaol
• 32% of current prisoners are expected to serve less than 12 months, compared to 43% previously
• 9% are expected to serve more than a decade, compared to <2% previously

Those numbers are even more grim when you consider that the major causes of incarceration in 1985 (B&E, robbery and murder) have largely declined. They have been replaced (and dwarfed) by an explosion of people imprisoned for assault and drugs - not necessarily because those offences are much more prevalent, but because today you are far more likely to go to gaol for them (and spend more time behind bars when you do).

But perhaps the most damning statistic is that, due to changes in bail laws, 33% of the people sitting in our prisons today are unsentenced. In raw numbers, that is more than the entire prison population of Australia in 1985 (when the rate was 13%).

When you consider those changes and how they impact the socially and economically marginalised, the fact that indigenous incarceration rates have nearly tripled over the last 35 years is no real surprise. It has very little to do with increasing criminality.

 

[IKE TURNER]

How about it? Clearly that's bad too but white people are also prone to domestic violence

40 percent apparently in the USA police , according to the National Center for Women and Policing.

I have tried to get a grip and be balanced but the stats about Aboriginal jail ) death custody are pretty dark? No pun intended

yes all types are prone to domestic violence but aboriginal domestic violence especially in nt and wa are off the charts

 

[IKE TURNER]

but I think what they are getting at, is 'why' are there so many of them in jail etc.

Is it cause they just happen to be assholes. Or are there other factors ?

pretty straight forward the two groups are very dysfunctional, throw in poverty ,drugs,violence , crime etc and you get the picture

 

[deanc]

That is a vast oversimplification given that the correlation between incarceration rates and crime rates is complex and multifactorial. Crime rates in most major categories are down anything from 30-50% since the mid-80s, but overall incarceration rates have more than doubled.

The manner in which those figures have moved over the period are exceedingly difficult to unpack and many intelligent people have devoted their entire lives to it without satisfactory resolution. However, as food for thought here are some changes between 1985 and 2018:

• Your average prisoner today receives a sentence 25% shorter, but spends 60% longer in gaol
• 32% of current prisoners are expected to serve less than 12 months, compared to 43% previously
• 9% are expected to serve more than a decade, compared to <2% previously

Those numbers are even more grim when you consider that the major causes of incarceration in 1985 (B&E, robbery and murder) have largely declined. They have been replaced (and dwarfed) by an explosion of people imprisoned for assault and drugs - not necessarily because those offences are much more prevalent, but because today you are far more likely to go to gaol for them (and spend more time behind bars when you do).

But perhaps most damning statistic is that, due to changes in bail laws, 33% of the people sitting in our prisons today are unsentenced. In raw numbers, that is more than the entire prison population of Australia in 1985 (when the rate was 13%).

When you consider those changes and how they impact the socially and economically marginalised, the fact that indigenous incarceration rates have nearly tripled over the last 35 years is no real surprise. It has very little to do with increasing criminality.

Good post., re Aboriginal deaths is custody - this is being reported as a 'significant issue', but is that actually the case...?

If you look beyond the 'Over 400' deaths since 1991' media headlines and into the actual cause/s of these deaths, you will sadly discover that most are due to underlying heath conditions and or alcohol/drug related issues and or self harm/suicide.

Moreover, some of these 'deaths in custody' include tragic accidents while offenders are trying to evade police, be it traffic accidents or even people jumping into rivers. Some even include police assisting victims of domestic violence or other community disputes who either died at the scene or later in hospital.
NB. this is not my opinion, but is drawn from the comprehensive database of Aboriginal deaths in custody publicly available online. For some reason I'm unable to find a similar database listing deaths of non-indigenous people in custody?

While death in custody of any person is tragic and I'm not suggesting there are no racist cops in the force, there is obviously very little perspective in regards to 'the actual cause' or the related circumstances of Aboriginal deaths in custody being offered by the media - perhaps as it's simply counterproductive to their 'racist police' narrative.

I also accept and acknowledge there are a number of cases where better treatment or care by police could of prevented these deaths (same applies for non-indigenous people), however there is virtually no supporting evidence, according to media narrative, that 'the majority' of aboriginal deaths were the result of alleged racist treatment or culpable inaction by authorities...?

Finally worth noting; that of all deaths in police custody over the past 20 years around 80% (av. per year) have been/are 'non-indigenous persons' - but despite this massive discrepancy here's an idea - lets undertake mass gatherings in cities across the country, during a Pandemic, to protest "Black Lives Matter'...

 

[HairyO]

People carrying on like Aborigines are getting jailed for anything and everything on their first offence. I'd love to see a stat of how many times any juvenile fronts the courts before finally being locked up.

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No gaol time so far. She is currently going for 5th time lucky.

 

[Frank Bunn]

That is a vast oversimplification given that the correlation between incarceration rates and crime rates is complex and multifactorial. Crime rates in most major categories are down anything from 30-50% since the mid-80s, but overall incarceration rates have more than doubled.

The manner in which those figures have moved over the period are exceedingly difficult to unpack and many intelligent people have devoted their entire lives to it without satisfactory resolution. However, as food for thought here are some changes between 1985 and 2018:

• Your average prisoner today receives a sentence 25% shorter, but spends 60% longer in gaol
• 32% of current prisoners are expected to serve less than 12 months, compared to 43% previously
• 9% are expected to serve more than a decade, compared to <2% previously

Those numbers are even more grim when you consider that the major causes of incarceration in 1985 (B&E, robbery and murder) have largely declined. They have been replaced (and dwarfed) by an explosion of people imprisoned for assault and drugs - not necessarily because those offences are much more prevalent, but because today you are far more likely to go to gaol for them (and spend more time behind bars when you do).

But perhaps most damning statistic is that, due to changes in bail laws, 33% of the people sitting in our prisons today are unsentenced. In raw numbers, that is more than the entire prison population of Australia in 1985 (when the rate was 13%).

When you consider those changes and how they impact the socially and economically marginalised, the fact that indigenous incarceration rates have nearly tripled over the last 35 years is no real surprise. It has very little to do with increasing criminality.

Between the 1971 and 2016 censuses the indigenous population increased fivefold. Allowing for the rise in the general population of Australia the % of Aborigines tripled. Some of that could be due to higher birth rates and some due to more people choosing to identify as indigenous. Add that into your complex and multifactorial analysis.

I didn't claim increased criminality. It's possible the % of crimes by Aborigines has gone down. But they are still vastly overrepresented as offenders and hence jail time. They are also vastly overrepresented as victims of crime. The issues you mention reflect the changes in our judicial system but they are not specific to indigenous people.

 

[Caesar]

I didn't claim increased criminality.

You drew a causal relationship between representation in crime stats and representation in incarceration stats, which is simplistic.

The issues you mention reflect the changes in our judicial system but they are not specific to indigenous people.

They disproportionately impact indigenous people.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The attempt to marry this up with the zeitgeist underway in the U.S. is disingenuous to say the least.

It's intellectually infantile.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

 

[IKE TURNER]

aboriginal deaths in custody is a crock, death rates are similar to whites over half are due to natural causes or suicide just like on the outside where they are drinking and bashing themselves to death, if you want to focus on something try the amount of abuse on aboriginal women and children

 

[Marcel Proust]

 

[IKE TURNER]

How about it? Clearly that's bad too but white people are also prone to domestic violence

40 percent apparently in the USA police , according to the National Center for Women and Policing.

I have tried to get a grip and be balanced but the stats about Aboriginal jail ) death custody are pretty dark? No pun intended

no no domestic violence by aboriginal men on aboriginal women is far greater than whites per capita and deaths in custody no difference between indigenous and non indigenous

 

[IKE TURNER]

it just baffles me you are just as likely to die in jail if you are black or white, people go off about indigenous imprisonment rates it's because they are committing crimes that's why they are in jail and I can tell you from experience jailing them is a last resort also as far as equality is concerned I would love my kids school and uni fees paid for as well as all excursions and sporting trips would love to be given a job because of my skin color even if it is only one sixteenth and when another race spends billions of dollars on my race that will be true equality, give me a break

 

[fleabitten]

For the grievous crime of eating biscuits when told to stop he was hearby sentenced to death.

For f*ck's sake...

Doesn't seem like you've read the coroner's report.

Coroners Court of New South Wales

Coroners ensure that all sudden, unexpected or unexplained deaths, suspected deaths, fires and explosions are properly investigated. The State Coroners Court in Lidcombe, Sydney is the state headquarters for the coronial jurisdiction in NSW. The Coroners Court home page has links to guide...

www.coroners.justice.nsw.gov.au

He had type I diabetes and had elevated sugar levels when tested earlier that day. He had a history of self-harm and trying to stop him eating the biscuits was in his best interests, not (necessarily) a case of brutality. He was being restrained so that medication could be administered, not just so they could take some harmless biscuits away from him.

There's some question as to whether the officers reacted appropriately to Dungay's claims of not being able to breathe, but nothing like what your comment implies.

 

[IKE TURNER]

this weekend alone the nephew of Jacinta price was bashed to death and four teenagers died in stolen car crash which could possibly be indigenous, deaths in custody is way down the list for aboriginal people

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

this weekend alone the nephew of Jacinta price was bashed to death and four teenagers died in stolen car crash which could possibly be indigenous, deaths in custody is way down the list for aboriginal people

Am also hearing the teenagers were indigenous. Terrible tragedy.

In a way Townsville is fortunate that there was no police chase involved as there may have been riots at a time like now and people would have found an excuse to not focus on the behaviour of the driver and just blame police as a scapegoat.