Another US shooting - Newtown, Connecticut

[WinmarToLockett]

An excellent article by anarchist intellectual Jeffrey Tucker:

http://lfb.org/today/why-cant-schools-secure-themselves/

You should all read Jeffrey Tucker.

Every day.

Mate, you come across a hell of a lot more rational and intelligent than Mr. Tucker appears.

Some of the arguments proffered in that article range from the questionable to the absolutely ****ing absurd.

 

[Moo]

As I've said before, I think the private sector should not be restricted or disadvantaged by the types of guns that the govt sector grants itself (eg, police, ng, fema, etc). I believe more than ever, since a couple hundred years, the words of the 2nd have to be taken on more seriously, private militias, guarding against govt tyranny (patriot act) threatening.

In otherwise day to day situations, laws like trigger locks and concealment etc should be eradicated.

So bullet proof vest piercing rounds - OK?

 

[Malifice]

Candi Hogan is one example. She had never fired a gun before yesterday, but after the Connecticut massacre, she’s looking for a gun license and wants to teach her daughter Micaela to shoot and get a license, too:

So... in response to a massacre perpetuated by a child obtaining his mothers lawfully owned gun from her home (that she taught him to shoot)... this woman heads out, buys a gun for her home and teaches her child to shoot it?

Anyone else see the obvious fail here?

 

[Max zero]

As I've said before, I think the private sector should not be restricted or disadvantaged by the types of guns that the govt sector grants itself (eg, police, ng, fema, etc). I believe more than ever, since a couple hundred years, the words of the 2nd have to be taken on more seriously, private militias, guarding against govt tyranny (patriot act) threatening.

In otherwise day to day situations, laws like trigger locks and concealment etc should be eradicated.

You see this is what I don't get. The Patriot Act, extrajudicial killings, secret trials and lack of rule of law for terror suspects are all legitimate threats to liberty.

These ALL happened with 200+ million guns in the country. Gun ownership did NOTHING to stop any these happening. How has gun ownership actually kept the government in check?

To me it just looks like a giant red herring to keep people distracted while the real threats to liberty (corruption, lobbyists and political donations) go unchecked.

Australia has far fewer guns then the US yet our government isn't anywhere near as heavy handed. If guns keep the government honest how do you explain that?

 

[Malifice]

You see this is what I don't get. The Patriot Act, extrajudicial killings, secret trials and lack of rule of law for terror suspects are all legitimate threats to liberty.

These ALL happened with 200+ million guns in the country. Gun ownership did NOTHING to stop any these happening. How has gun ownership actually kept the government in check?

To me it just looks like a giant red herring to keep people distracted while the real threats to liberty (corruption, lobbyists and political donations) go unchecked.

Dig deeper.

Most of those policies were initiated at the behest of Conservative politicians and Republicans.

I.e. with the support of your average Gun owner.

Keep em scared, keep em armed. A terrorist under every bed, a criminal lurking outside every window.

Australia has far fewer guns then the US yet our government isn't anywhere near as heavy handed. If guns keep the government honest how do you explain that?

We also have less Jews. Remember, the 'Zionists' are behind it all.

Stormfront told me so.

 

[Exe Gesis]

To answer Max zero and Malifice

The worms (nazis) in the apple that is the US Govt have been aiming to eke away at the bill of rights, term at a time. First Bush with Patriot act. Now it's Obama with the 2nd. Once they've sufficiently disarmed the people, they will go in for the kill. They face a longer drawn-out process, and potential failure, if they meet armed resistance. The US different than Germany at the time of Nazis. They didnt have such a nature of guarding against govt tyranny and centralization diminishing the individualism/separatism of states.

Another reason why western nations should be rooting-for/thanking US civilians for keeping up the fight. Once american civil rights fall, it'll mean rest of the west will follow. healthy paranoia/guardedness.

 

[Max zero]

To answer Max zero and Malifice

The worms (nazis) in the apple that is the US Govt have been aiming to eke away at the bill of rights, term at a time. First Bush with Patriot act. Now it's Obama with the 2nd. Once they've sufficiently disarmed the people, they will go in for the kill. They face a longer drawn-out process, and potential failure, if they meet armed resistance. The US different than Germany at the time of Nazis. They didnt have such a nature of guarding against govt tyranny and centralization diminishing the individualism/separatism of states.

Another reason why western nations should be rooting-for/thanking US civilians for keeping up the fight. Once american civil rights fall, it'll mean rest of the west will follow. healthy paranoia/guardedness.

And how will 300 millions guns stop this? They haven't done much so far.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Resistance is messy. Resistance is defying not necessarily winning, but it thwarts the process/intention, drags it out. Eg, Vietnam.

 

[Malifice]

The worms (nazis) in the apple that is the US Govt have been aiming to eke away at the bill of rights, term at a time. First Bush with Patriot act. Now it's Obama with the 2nd. Once they've sufficiently disarmed the people, they will go in for the kill.

So... what do you think will happen once Assault rifles are outlawed?

Please tell me.

The US different than Germany at the time of Nazis.

The Nazis lessened the Gun laws of the Republic that came before it (who only tightened them to stop armed violence between the Nazis and the Communists).

If you want to stop groups like the Nazi party, don't vote for them. Remember, the Nazis gained power through the democratic process.

Another reason why western nations should be rooting-for/thanking US civilians for keeping up the fight. Once american civil rights fall, it'll mean rest of the west will follow.

Get over yourself.

 

[romeoh]

To answer Max zero and Malifice

The worms (nazis) in the apple that is the US Govt have been aiming to eke away at the bill of rights, term at a time. First Bush with Patriot act. Now it's Obama with the 2nd. Once they've sufficiently disarmed the people, they will go in for the kill. They face a longer drawn-out process, and potential failure, if they meet armed resistance. The US different than Germany at the time of Nazis. They didnt have such a nature of guarding against govt tyranny and centralization diminishing the individualism/separatism of states.

Another reason why western nations should be rooting-for/thanking US civilians for keeping up the fight. Once american civil rights fall, it'll mean rest of the west will follow. healthy paranoia/guardedness.

Its not healthy paranoia. Its unhealhty nutjob stuff. America contributes/creates the problems of the west/east in a big way. It doesn't rescue us. I concur with above-get over yourself.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

School Obama's Daughters Attend Has 11 Armed Guards

Some interesting news has broken in the wake of the latest push for gun control by President Obama and Senate Democrats: Obama sends his kids to a school where armed guards are used as a matter of fact.

The school, Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC, has 11 security officers and is seeking to hire a new police officer as we speak.

If you dismiss this by saying, "Of course they have armed guards -- they get Secret Service protection," then you've missed the larger point.

The larger point is that this is standard operating procedure for the school, period. And this is the reason people like NBC's David Gregory send their kids to Sidwell, they know their kids will be protected from the carnage that befell kids at a school where armed guards weren't used (and weren't even allowed).

Shame on President Obama for seeking more gun control and for trying to prevent the parents of other school children from doing what he has clearly done for his own. His children sit under the protection guns afford, while the children of regular Americans are sacrificed.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...s-11-Armed-Guards-Not-Counting-Secret-Service

 

[Monniehawk]

Indeed, protection of children is another obvious one
On that track....protection of valuable assets/money/possessions.

There is something missing in this logic.
It appears that we need to have guns to protect us from people who have guns.
Guns therefore are their own justification.
Insane!
Why not get rid of guns so that we have no need for them? Armed guards in schools, FFS! How insane is that!??
Someone even suggested arming schoolkids!!!??
The U.S. is an aberration with its incredible gun crime rate and fetish for guns; it is not an ideal.
Their constitutional rights were written for a time some 200 years ago. It gave the right to bear single shot muskets, not an arsenal of automatic killing machines. The right to arms is not being proposed to be taken away, it is simply restricting the amount, use and type of weapons to a level that is closer to levels of sanity.
America has gone quite mad. Why aspire to insanity?

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Brilliant (contains bad language........and violence)

 

[Moo]

Brilliant (contains bad language........and violence)

Quite a clever highlighting of seeing a hippo.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Forensic psychiatrist dismisses the gun availability argument in favor of the influence that media lionisation has upon mass killers.

 

[blackcat]

That western interference to ensure there was never a unified "Arabia" was important and necessary, to stem the threat of crusade-like proportions arising, as you agreed.

actually, I did not necessarily believe that.

That was my doomsayers (portmanteu of doomsday/soothsayer) pov

Perhaps an Arabia becomes something altogether different and had the resources (talking economic) to create a functioning state. If Persia could in the first half of the C20, why did a hypothetical Arabia not have the potential. I do concede, that perhaps, their native culture(s), the tribal states, had not the history of political organising and organising principles, and theology played a more influential role in those governing principles.

For one tho, as you concede, it was not in the West's interest to have a powerful bloc in control of energy resources. And as much as the left and other socialist agitators contest, Israel is a definite asset for the West in the ME. As long as they dont create a new conflagration with Iran.

But none of this has been to the benefit of the arabs and persians, and other marginal races in the ME.

edit: blackcat skirts dangerously close to an orientalism shtick

 

[blackcat]

You flatter your country here GG.
The US is a market place first and foremost today and China took precedence quite sometime ago.
WWII saw the US "assist" Australia because it suited their purpose at the time and when resources and priorities changed we were left to our own defence.
Simple luck had it that the Japanese had bigger fish to fry, for if the invasion of Australia was a priority we would have fallen, at least from Darwin to Brisbane.

sh'eeee'it. whattta piddee it was not a priority for the Japs to take Darwin and Brisbane. They could have kept Joh and given him wunna those Karate Kid headbands

US assistance to any ally has always and always will be a case of self preservation or promotion.
Not that I have an issue with that philosophy, but don't make the US sound like a global phillanthropist.
Australia's way of life and freedoms are overwhelmingly thanks to the British and our own variation on their democracy.

+2
US do, what is in US interests. nuffin more, nuffin less. chiquita bananas

 

[blackcat]

US Govt will cut their 760 billion military budget

that is the quoted figure. How much is off-balance-sheet stuff Andy Fastow conjured up with his raptors stuff. medusala could answer

Annual cost of the military industry to capitol hill gotta be over a trillion.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

(EDIT: how'd this post get made anyway with no no quoted text)

FFS its a school for the children of government officials and foreign diplomats, of course they have their own security like it or not the children of those in power are targets.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

FFS its a school for the children of government officials and foreign diplomats, of course they have their own security like it or not the children of those in power are targets.

It appears that they are not the only targets.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

It appears that they are not the only targets.

It's a completely different situation and you know it.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

It's a completely different situation and you know it.

Are you concluding that the armed protection of school children should be based upon political grounds?

How many politicians children have been executed at school in the U.S.A.?

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Are you concluding that the armed protection of school children should be based upon political grounds?

How many politicians children have been executed at school in the U.S.A.?

No I'm saying that whether we like it or not children of high-profile targets are targets themselves, and it is reasonable for them to have additional security as their presence can endanger not only themselves but also their classmates.

Your average school has no need for armed guards, because it is not reasonable to assume they will be the target of a terrorist attack or kidnapping.

The security at these schools is a defence against well organised actions aimed at manipulating the political system or foreign governments etc.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Point is, armed security works at those schools, so better idea to use it for all schools.

Clearly.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Point is, armed security works at those schools, so better idea to use it for all schools.

Clearly.

The security at these schools isn't not the same as a rent-a-cop with hand gun you would be putting at your average school who would be just as likely to be a danger to the students as those they are protecting them from. These schools would have highly-trained and experience security personal (probably ex-military or secret service) who work in tandem with the secret service.