Another US shooting - Newtown, Connecticut

[Malifice]

So much naivety

So much paranoia.

Chill. Live a little.

 

[Monniehawk]

So much naivety

So much irony.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Like I alluded to before...

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/casey-the-bullied-boy-that-fought-back.803098/

Wonder what all you said in that thread

 

[Hollow Knight]

If, in the statistically low possibility I get mugged (yet to happen in my 32 and a half years on the planet) I don't rate the contents of my wallet highly enough to get into a gun battle in the street.

What would my odds of winning said gun battle be anyway, considering the mugger most likely got the jump on me?

A kid standing up to a schoolyard bully does not comprise an argument for loosened gun restrictions.

It appears to me GG that you are just throwing our random emotive rhetoric in the (seeming) hope that someone gets confused and mistakes some of it for a cogent argument.

 

[Exe Gesis]

One of these days all of you are going to find yourselves in a dangerous situation, life-threatening or near-so, by those carrying illegal weapons (removing guns doesn't remove guns, remember), and you're going to remember me. I will look forward to reading your mind-sets afterwards.

 

[Hollow Knight]

One of these days all of you are going to find yourselves in a dangerous situation, life-threatening or near-so, by those carrying illegal weapons (removing guns doesn't remove guns, remember), and you're going to remember me. I will look forward to reading your mind-sets afterwards.

One day you are going to come across a mugger who anticipated a clean exchange where he got your wallet and got out of there in 30 seconds.

Instead, you (suddenly having a flashback to the overweight schoolyard bully that stole your Snickers bar in the 5th grade) think to yourself "**** this!" and you reach for your gun. The mugger panics and fires. The paramedics tried their best but you lost too much blood at the scene. But hey, at least he didn't get your 40 dollars and your CostCo Customer Club card.

Hypothetical predictions are fun aren't they?

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Yet oddly, thats what you (as an Anarchist) propose.

Less Laws more 'Liberty' right?

Liberty cannot be granted by some professional civic dunce.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

One of these days all of you are going to find yourselves in a dangerous situation, life-threatening or near-so, by those carrying illegal weapons (removing guns doesn't remove guns, remember), and you're going to remember me. I will look forward to reading your mind-sets afterwards.

Learn to defend yourself by filling out the appropriate forms in triplicate.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

"The worth of a State, in the long run, is the worth of the individuals composing it; and a State which postpones the interests of their mental expansion and elevation, to a little more of administrative skill, or that semblance of it which practice gives, in the details of business; a State which dwarfs its men, in order that they may be more docile instruments in its hands even for beneficial purposes—will find that with small men no great thing can really be accomplished; and that the perfection of machinery to which it has sacrificed everything, will in the end avail it nothing, for want of the vital power which, in order that the machine might work more smoothly, it has preferred to banish" - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

 

[Exe Gesis]

Learn to defend yourself by filling out the appropriate forms in triplicate.

If they "come at you" with a fountain pen, don't bother pulling out a sword....push a writ in their face.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Hobbes on the natural state of man in the absence of law.

"In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain, and consequently, not culture of the earth, no navigation, nor the use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force, no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". - The Leviathan

Can post words from great philosophers on both sides of the ideological coin. Eventually we must form our own views, even if it may involve *shock horror* exploring grey areas and accepting that there may be a level of balance required.

 

[Exe Gesis]

One day you are going to come across a mugger who anticipated a clean exchange where he got your wallet and got out of there in 30 seconds.

Instead, you (suddenly having a flashback to the overweight schoolyard bully that stole your Snickers bar in the 5th grade) think to yourself "**** this!" and you reach for your gun. The mugger panics and fires. The paramedics tried their best but you lost too much blood at the scene. But hey, at least he didn't get your 40 dollars and your CostCo Customer Club card.

Hypothetical predictions are fun aren't they?

You are naive on this topic because you've largely lived in snoring towns and safe neighborhoods, little life experience/misadventure, and rely on anecdote and literature.

I've been mugged several times, even after complying gotten stabbed, or pistol-whipped.

I've been accosted several times by groups of guys, trying to talk out of it, being cool, gotten beaten up for it, they don't care, often the thrill of demeaning someone, they got the power, your life/well-being in their hands to toy with.

Statistics show that girls' likelihood of surviving rape/abductions plummet if they comply.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

If they "come at you" with a fountain pen, don't bother pulling out a sword....push a writ in their face.

Just take out your statute book and belt them over the head with it.

Hobbes on the natural state of man in the absence of law.

"In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain, and consequently, not culture of the earth, no navigation, nor the use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force, no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". - The Leviathan

Can post words from great philosophers on both sides of the ideological coin. Eventually we must form our own views, even if it may involve *shock horror* exploring grey areas and accepting that there may be a level of balance required.

Hobbes is the patron saint of bureaucrats.

As for "form our own views", I'm all for that.

Only, unlike you, I don't believe I have the right to force my views upon others.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You are naive on this topic because you've largely lived in snoring towns and safe neighborhoods, little life experience/misadventure, and rely on anecdote and literature.

You really want to throw in with Hard to Beat by basing your arguments on unsubstantiated assumptions about people you don't know? Anecdote and literature... c'mon GG, you are better than that.

I've lived in both middle-class and low-socioeconomic parts of Australia, Europe and Asia. Have yet to experience anything that made me think that those societies would have been better off if everyone was carrying a semi-automatic.

As a side note, maybe a lot of the safe neighbourhoods I've lived in were safe for a reason...

 

[Hollow Knight]

Only, unlike you, I don't believe I have the right to force my views upon others.

How do we differ in this regard?

I could personally rail off a list of regulation for which I have played a significant part in having repealed, along with another laundry list of regulation which I have helped prevent being introduced to begin with.

Mock all you want with your cliches about government etc, but if you think you are helping advance the cause of "liberty" or that you will bring down Big Brother by essentially being the online equivalent of Rick from the Young Ones and shouting "fascist" at anyone who gives you the time of day, you need to take a massive perspective check. Decisions are made by those who show up.

As a side note, it has always struck me as humorous that most of the Libertarians and Anarchists I've met (including myself a decade or so ago) seem like the types of people who would be the first to go under if the government disappeared overnight and natural order was restored.

Paranoid, agitated, lacking any sort of communal or tribal solidarity. There is a reason that humanity has evolved into a social animal the way it did. Maybe those apes with a tendency towards isolation and distrust were picked off from the herd.

 

[Exe Gesis]

You really want to throw in with Hard to Beat by basing your arguments on unsubstantiated assumptions about people you don't know? Anecdote and literature... c'mon GG, you are better than that.

You said yourself in your 32 years you've never been mugged.

You therefore do not have experience to talk about muggings, how a clean exchange and compliance will prevent injury. Your knowledge base is based on anecdote and literature.

I have experience, due to bad towns and neighborhoods, whether living there or encountering them.

Compliance often doesn't prevent injury. It's circumstance, and other factors.

Certainly i know of the rape/abduction statistics that demonstrate compliance is the worst action to take, they always advise girls to resist, fight, scream, kick, bite, run....or if you're packing, then spray, shoot, stab.

Again, one day you'll encounter genuine danger, maybe you'll get lucky with compliance, but I'll be keen to read your mind-set after you've genuinely been a victim of violence.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Certainly i know of the rape/abduction statistics that demonstrate compliance is the worst action to take, they always advise girls to resist, fight, scream, kick, bite, run....or if you're packing, then spray, shoot, stab.

Did you get those statistics from anecdote and literature, or have you been repeatedly raped and recorded the statistics yourself?

If it is the latter, I am sorry. If it is the former, by your own logic you aren't allowed to comment.

Regardless, if you think my views on gun control directly translate to me advocating that girls should just lie there and take it if they are raped, then you are just not operating on a logical framework that will make this discussion work.

Again, one day you'll encounter genuine danger, maybe you'll get lucky with compliance, but I'll be keen to read your mind-set after you've genuinely been a victim of violence.

Another assumption. You've certainly taken that "never been mugged" comment and run with it.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Did you get those statistics from anecdote and literature, or have you been repeatedly raped and recorded the statistics yourself?

Regardless, if you think my views on gun control directly translate to me advocating that girls should just lie there and take it if they are raped, then you are just not operating on a logical framework that will make this discussion work.

Where do you get my post as me suggesting you advocate that.
I'm demonstrating, strike that, attempting to demonstrate, thru BOTH experience and anecdote, that compliance isn't a fixed good decision.
Circumstance and other factors (environment, physical builds, drugs, unknown aspects of the aggressor) play a part in why sometimes compliance might work.

All this anyway is side-tracking the gist. It's incumbent of one to be well-prepared because the life/man/world is violent, it never was and never will be a fluffy ideal of man aspiring to godliness that a lot of the pre and post 18th Century philosophers filled the air with babble.

Society ought to have freer gun ownership, man ought to be able to protect himself from aggression from criminals, madmen, civilians, police, government. To take that away from everyday civilians is to make them more vulnerable than those who are allowed to carry guns (govt) or who can still get access to illegal guns (crims).

 

[Hollow Knight]

Where do you get my post as me suggesting you advocate that.
I'm demonstrating, strike that, attempting to demonstrate, thru BOTH experience and anecdote, that compliance isn't a fixed good decision.
Circumstance and other factors (environment, physical builds, drugs, unknown aspects of the aggressor) play a part in why sometimes compliance might work.

I think it is reasonable to assume that in a mugging situation, the mugger wants to get your money with minimal fuss.

Compliance might seem like the coward's way out in that situation to you, but it also seems like the most rational response and the one most likely to result in minimal violence.

I'm really interested in discussing this with you without the childish insults being bandied around by others, so know that the questions I am asking you from here on out are out of genuine curiosity. I am not being facetious or trying to catch you out.

First up, do you live in the States, and if so, do you pretty much grab a firearm of some sort every time you head out into society? (Mowing the lawn now, back later on).

 

[romeoh]

One of these days all of you are going to find yourselves in a dangerous situation, life-threatening or near-so, by those carrying illegal weapons (removing guns doesn't remove guns, remember), and you're going to remember me. I will look forward to reading your mind-sets afterwards.

Haha -doubtful - you have enough tickets on yourself to fund myki for a year.
I have been mugged on the street and I did fight back fiercely with my hands.(he had no weapon). I can also honestly say that not once though, did it cross my mind 'if only I had a gun', nor did it convince me of the need for more guns in our society. But do agree that when you are placed in threatening situation, your stances are challenged.

 

[Malifice]

You said yourself in your 32 years you've never been mugged.

You therefore do not have experience to talk about muggings, how a clean exchange and compliance will prevent injury. Your knowledge base is based on anecdote and literature.

I have experience, due to bad towns and neighborhoods, whether living there or encountering them.

Were you armed when you were mugged?

Did your gun 'save' you?

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Media Quiet About San Antonio Theater Shooting

On Sunday December 17, 2012, 2 days after the CT shooting, a man went to a restaurant in San Antonio to kill his ex-girlfriend. After he shot her, most of the people in the restaurant fled next door to a theater. The gunman followed them and entered the theater so he could shoot more people. He started shooting and people in the theater started running and screaming. It’s like the Aurora, CO theater story plus a restaurant!

Now aren’t you wondering why this isn’t a lead story in the national media along with the school shooting?

There was an off duty county deputy at the theater. She pulled out her gun and shot the man 4 times before he had a chance to kill anyone. So since this story makes the point that the best thing to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun, the media is treating it like it never happened.

Only the local media covered it. The city is giving her a medal next week. Just thought you’d like to know.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...out-san-antonio-theater-shooting-2524596.html

 

[nut]

Never said you bully to stop bullying etc.
Said you fight back.

The other day I was out in the sunlight as you advise. These two aggressive looking guys spotted me and came my way. As I passed into a side street one of them pulled out a knife and said, "Hey arseh*le, hand over the wallet or get hurt."

I reached into my leather jacket, unholstered my hunting knife, and bringing it up near his face said, "That's not a knife. Now this is a knife!"

They both took a step back and with hands up said, "Ok mister we don't want any trouble." With that they slinked away.

Did those aggressive looking guys try and take this from you... you poor thing.

 

[nut]

Media Quiet About San Antonio Theater Shooting

On Sunday December 17, 2012, 2 days after the CT shooting, a man went to a restaurant in San Antonio to kill his ex-girlfriend. After he shot her, most of the people in the restaurant fled next door to a theater. The gunman followed them and entered the theater so he could shoot more people. He started shooting and people in the theater started running and screaming. It’s like the Aurora, CO theater story plus a restaurant!

Now aren’t you wondering why this isn’t a lead story in the national media along with the school shooting?

There was an off duty county deputy at the theater. She pulled out her gun and shot the man 4 times before he had a chance to kill anyone. So since this story makes the point that the best thing to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun, the media is treating it like it never happened.

Only the local media covered it. The city is giving her a medal next week. Just thought you’d like to know.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...out-san-antonio-theater-shooting-2524596.html

Obviously there is a campaign against gun ownership, and rightly so.... Now if that shooter didnt have a gun in the first place would his girlfriend be dead?

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Obviously there is a campaign against gun ownership, and rightly so.... Now if that shooter didnt have a gun in the first place would his girlfriend be dead?

Perhaps the media has started to act responsibly by denying these fruitcakes the celebrity that they obviously crave?