Ashes 3rd test @ The WACA

[Gough]

I'm not sure what changes England could realistically make

Boycott for Stoneman.

 

[StillAtLarge]

We need someone who can roll their arm over to help out the quicks whilst making some handy runs. Given the waca isn't a spin friendly wicket m marsh is the logical choice with his recent batting exploits.
He will play and play well, it's the perfect time to get a gig with the tourists knee-deep in $hit

 

[RookiePick]

Interesting comments by the WACA curator. It is a terrible charade he has to conduct trying to reconcile the history of the fiery WACA with the mundane reality of today.

Like the South African test of last year but hopefully a bit quicker he says. My recollection is both sides were pretty flippant with their wickets in the first dig on a pretty friendly track. South Africa dug in in their second innings and scored very freely after our quicks tired and showed the true character of the pitch and declared a mile in front. Rabada duly cleaned us up from there.

Our approach has been a lot more methodical this summer so far. A really good toss to win and bat first IMO.

 

[imperial_oz]

I don't disagree but I was talking personnel changes

I get that but I dont see any personnel changes having an impact when the focus is elsewhere.

That and the fact that aside from Cook and Root, they don't have anybody capable of getting hold of a game and shaping it. They have a couple of up and comers with the potential to be match winners down the track but currently, only Cook and Root fit the bill. Cook isn't in great form and Root is being distracted by the fluff going on around him. The Poms would have been better to leave Root as a batsmen only and leave the captaincy to someone else. Its taking his focus off his own game and is costing his side. He's not such a great captain as well.

They could put Bairstow higher in the order but that could backfire badly if he's exposed too early.

Personnel wise, they have what they have. Their best in on the field but their minds are elsewhere and they aren't getting the best out of what they have.

My 2c anyway

 

[Run n Spread]

I get that but I dont see any personnel changes having an impact when the focus is elsewhere.

That and the fact that aside from Cook and Root, they don't have anybody capable of getting hold of a game and shaping it. They have a couple of up and comers with the potential to be match winners down the track but currently, only Cook and Root fit the bill. Cook isn't in great form and Root is being distracted by the fluff going on around him. The Poms would have been better to leave Root as a batsmen only and leave the captaincy to someone else. Its taking his focus off his own game and is costing his side. He's not such a great captain as well.

They could put Bairstow higher in the order but that could backfire badly if he's exposed too early.

Personnel wise, they have what they have. Their best in on the field but their minds are elsewhere and they aren't getting the best out of what they have.

My 2c anyway

Don't know if Cook is a match winner. By that I mean he is a classy opening batsman who when in form fills his role to a tee, grinds the bowlers down, rotates the strike and eventually makes runs. Even in 2010 he held up his end but the matchwinners (wh took the game away from Australia were Piterson, Trott and Bell) and Anderson (in favourable conditions) and Swan.

Their potential matchwinners are Root, Broad and maybe Bairstow. Just hard to see them turning it around or being capable of 3 out of the box performances in a row.

I'd bring in a young express quick from the A side for Woakes and Ballance for Malan.

 

[Run n Spread]

Cummins could bat at 7 then play Bird. 5 bowlers problem solved.

 

[Gough]

Bowling a side out isn't our problem, I reckon we've got one of the best attacks in years, it's our batting that's shaky.

 

[Run n Spread]

For all the talk of the need for a 5th bowler is Marsh even that great a bowler?

Why not Faulkner (WTF has happend to him?) Henriques or Stoinis? (a lack of shield cricket didn't count against Paine). Even a Ben Cutting could bat at 7?

Why the obsession with Marsh?

 

[Gough]

For all the talk of the need for a 5th bowler is Marsh even that great a bowler?

Why not Faulkner (WTF has happend to him?) Henriques or Stoinis? (a lack of shield cricket didn't count against Paine). Even a Ben Cutting could bat at 7?

Why the obsession with Marsh?

Because flogging your bowlers until they break a la the Chappells and AB is no longer considered a good thing.

 

[RookiePick]

Don't know if Cook is a match winner. By that I mean he is a classy opening batsman who when in form fills his role to a tee, grinds the bowlers down, rotates the strike and eventually makes runs. Even in 2010 he held up his end but the matchwinners (wh took the game away from Australia were Piterson, Trott and Bell) and Anderson (in favourable conditions) and Swan.

Their potential matchwinners are Root, Broad and maybe Bairstow. Just hard to see them turning it around or being capable of 3 out of the box performances in a row.

I'd bring in a young express quick from the A side for Woakes and Ballance for Malan.

Cook seems to be tailing off but he was undeniably a match winner for England. Not a flashy match winner but a match winner nevertheless.

Anchoring an innings with someone like Cook gives you the best opportunity for the aggressive batsmen to really take a test match away from the opponent. You would also back Cook as a much more reliable chance to go on to a big hundred if he gets set than Root, who is a bit flighty at this stage of his career.

 

[Run n Spread]

Because flogging your bowlers until they break a la the Chappells and AB is no longer considered a good thing.

Generally agree. My question is why not consider anyone else? Is M Marsh that great that no one else in the country can bat @6 and offer the 5th option(not a front liner but better than a part timer) would be my criteria. Something ironically Ali does for England.

 

[imperial_oz]

Don't know if Cook is a match winner. By that I mean he is a classy opening batsman who when in form fills his role to a tee, grinds the bowlers down, rotates the strike and eventually makes runs. Even in 2010 he held up his end but the matchwinners (wh took the game away from Australia were Piterson, Trott and Bell) and Anderson (in favourable conditions) and Swan.

Their potential matchwinners are Root, Broad and maybe Bairstow. Just hard to see them turning it around or being capable of 3 out of the box performances in a row.

I'd bring in a young express quick from the A side for Woakes and Ballance for Malan.

I just don't see either Broad or Bairstow as match winners. Bairstow looks better than most because his batting hasn't been completely shit. Broad is just a flamin' knob jockey. He's too busy acting the dick to contribute to his potential. Cook can, as you say, wear down bowlers and that can swing a match under Australian Summer conditions. Do it twice and you can change a series.

Replacing Malan and Woakes is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as far as this series is concerned where getting more games into those blokes might benefit the Poms longer term

 

[LukeParkerno1]

For all the talk of the need for a 5th bowler is Marsh even that great a bowler?

Why not Faulkner (WTF has happend to him?) Henriques or Stoinis? (a lack of shield cricket didn't count against Paine). Even a Ben Cutting could bat at 7?

Why the obsession with Marsh?

Cutting lmao he’s terrible. Stoinis has personal things going on don’t think it’s that wise with his family situation to put him in a test side and he hasn’t got the runs. Henriques is a chance but is his bowing much more than “average”. Faulkner isn’t a top 6 bat.

 

[Restricted Free Agent]

Boycott for Stoneman.

Jack Watts for Stoneman

 

[frankrizzo]

Because flogging your bowlers until they break a la the Chappells and AB is no longer considered a good thing.

It only works if the skipper is on board and we have seen smith either isn't on board or is simply too poor a skipper to juggle 5 bowlers effectively.

I wouldn't be surprised if at Perth marsh simply takes a chunk of lyons overs while the main quicks do just as much work as usual.

 

[archibald]

I liked Michael Vaughan's idea to swap Vince/Malan and Ali/Bairstow in the order to stockpile the middle order with right handers and defuse Lyon's suffocation during the middle overs. The English really need to put more scoring pressure on Lyon forcing the quickies to bowl more frequent spells which will logically lead to more scoring options.

 

[Fat Nyfe]

Rumours are for an absolute concrete highway of a pitch.

Really hope thats not the case

 

[frankrizzo]

England will be happy, a draw at Perth would be almost like a win for them.

 

[Outshined]

They could try actually putting their best efforts in on the ground instead of in the media with their incessant whinging and their stupid "Australians are crossing the sledging line but we don't actually know how" crap put out by blokes in England.

The could also get Broad and Anderson to STFU.

Who knows, concentrating on cricket instead petty mind games might have dividends for them.

They could also stop shooting themselves in the foot with their silly drinking games.

Radical suggestions but there ya go

This is a fair point, especially re their media work. I know he's probably contractually obliged, but Anderson's churning out articles for the UK Telegraph like wartime propaganda. Everything's fine, nothing to see here, we've got the Aussies where we want them etc etc. It's having the exact opposite effect to what he's intending. Laughable.

Think we'll win this in a canter tbh.

 

[imperial_oz]

This is a fair point, especially re their media work. I know he's probably contractually obliged, but Anderson's churning out articles for the UK Telegraph like wartime propaganda. Everything's fine, nothing to see here, we've got the Aussies where we want them etc etc. It's having the exact opposite effect to what he's intending. Laughable.

Think we'll win this in a canter tbh.

Agreed till the canter bit. A flat track would benefit them more than us. It would blunt our quicks to some extent and give their mediocre batting more of a chance. As we tend to get ourselves out more often than, a flat track won't change that.

Thats said, I think their heads are in the wrong space and they'll take some time to change that.

I'd like to see us win by an innings and something and break them. Breaking them here would just about ruin Root for the rest of the tour and he's still their best hope on field.

 

[IKnowtheDog]

Because flogging your bowlers until they break a la the Chappells and AB is no longer considered a good thing.

To be fair in those days there was more assistance in the pitches to assist the bowlers.

I reckon one of the best bowling performances I've seen was Merv Hughes in Perth against the Windies in 88/89 after Lawson had his jaw broken.

 

[Kipz]

MMarsh will play

 

[Outshined]

Agreed till the canter bit. A flat track would benefit them more than us. It would blunt our quicks to some extent and give their mediocre batting more of a chance. As we tend to get ourselves out more often than, a flat track won't change that.

Thats said, I think their heads are in the wrong space and they'll take some time to change that.

I'd like to see us win by an innings and something and break them. Breaking them here would just about ruin Root for the rest of the tour and he's still their best hope on field.

Even with a flat track, they're suspect IMO. The GABBA was pretty kind to them as GABBA standards go and Adelaide oval was played in English conditions at times and they've still contrived to lose both games pretty convincingly. An easy wicket to bat on also papers over the cracks in our side. If we win the toss, bat and hit a huge score, the pressure will be right on no matter how favourable the conditions are.

They've been in this position twice before with much better teams and have slid to a whitewash (+ a 4-1 in 2002/03). It's hard to see the current side faring much better. They may be more up for the fight (hah), but that's countered by carrying the likes of Malan, Vince and Woakes.

Tbf the current Aussie side are hardly word beaters and will probably prove me wrong by being all out by tea on day 1.

 

[cricketnut14]

Cutting lmao he’s terrible. Stoinis has personal things going on don’t think it’s that wise with his family situation to put him in a test side and he hasn’t got the runs. Henriques is a chance but is his bowing much more than “average”. Faulkner isn’t a top 6 bat.

you're right Faulkner ain't a top 6 bat and not saying he's the answer, however he does have a better FC average than mitch and we've given him a crack at least 20+ times.

if we play mitch marsh and he fails, where do we go for melb & syd.

surely handscomb still has credits in the bank (ave 47). this would also mean his summer would be over (with no shield anytime soon) , unless an injury perhaps. he may not even get on the tour to south Africa.

not sure about playing 5 bowlers. if we are wanting to lighten starc, hazlewood and cummins workload then dare I say it, rest one of them and play bird. (I'm personally not a fan of "resting" players for a test match, however the other quick could rest in melb and the other in syd - especially if we play 2 spinners there). besides playing 5 bowlers may well eat into lyon's contribution which then begs the question should he play. we can rest players the whole of January if we must!

end of the day there are 8 days between the scheduled finish of the perth test and melb. now if we finish bowling early day 4 perth (or even finish the game off in 3 days) and don't bowl till late day 2 melb, then it's even a bigger break. the bowlers should be expect to bowl 40-50 overs during the course of a test match. we also have a world class bowling attack at the moment and should be dismissing teams with relative ease, without having to bowl all of those overs.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

MMarsh will play

England’s odds shorten for sure