Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2
- Status
- Jun 14, 2013
- 13,076
- 15,681
- AFL Club
- Essendon
I have faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. There is much evidence for his existence, and nobody has been able to disprove his existence yet. Believers in the FSM are promised an afterlife with a beer volcano and stripper factory.
Irrefutable evidence. You've been warned.
- Banned
- #4,702
Very true. In fact Jesus wouldn't have tithed, being a carpenter, likewise his earthly father Joseph. In fact none of Jesus' disciples would've tithed. None of them grew crops or farmed animals. Something else rarely mentioned is that the tithe wasn't calculated from all the farmland since God instructed them to not reap the corners or gather the gleanings but to instead leave them to the poor and for travelers to freely pick through as they traversed the land, which is what Jesus and His disciples did (Matthew 12:1).
The normal offering after the birth of a child was a lamb but if the family was not able to (presumably if they were poor at the time) they could substitute two pigeons or doves. At the ordained time after Jesus' was born Mary & Joseph offered up two pigeons.
It would be wrong to say Jesus was against giving however. Far from it. He said it was more blessed to give than receive. The motive and correct heart attitude was what he was more interested in.
Mark 12:41–44: Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny. Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything-- all she had to live on."
These freely given offerings not mandated by the law were in the form of money but the tithe as you pointed out had to be grain, fruit or animals.
- Jan 12, 2011
- 25,402
- 35,580
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Here I'll try again
This time either answer or say I don't know
Which parts of the Bible are to be considered hard and fast Rules and which parts are to be considered just Parables?
How can you tell the difference?
Who decides which is which?
- Thread starter
- #4,705
Yeah I have been keeping an eye on this thread but personally am over Christian v Skeptics debates because if we want them we are better off watch7tge likes of Lennox V Dawkins then on Bigfooty
I attend a Presbyterian church but if I a moved wouldn't nesscerarly go to a Pressy Church elsewhere. Some a great but some are too traditional.
- Thread starter
- #4,706
I certainly don't feel all Australians view us negatively I feel it's a loud minority on forums like this. I still know plenty if non-believers who respect Christianity.
I'm not a Pell defender by any means. What frustrated me last week though is the criticism of the high court judges which I thought was highly unfair.
On Scomo if he was a Muslim and people said some of the stuff they are saying those people would be called racist islamaphobic etc
Yeah I think those loud minority 'critics' of Christianity see as it religion that represent western culture, the religion of the European coloniser probably all the above they resent therefore it's ok to say nasty things about Christians. When people criticise Islam (and it can get pretty nasty too) the word racist gets thrown around. I never seen the same principle applied to Christianity even though a lot of Christians aren't white. I'm not saying we can't criticise religion I just think we need to keep it civil.
I remember having a conversation with another friend a few years back. I'm not sure if he was in the best state of mind but he used Hitler as an example to criticise Catholics. Hitler was a Catholic therefore Catholicism must be bad. I mean how nasty and ridiculous is that. First of all just because someone is born into a faith doesn't necessarily mean they stick with it. Both he and I were brought up as Catholics and both now don't consider ourselves Catholics. I would imagine this is the same with Hitler and what he did had nothing to do with Catholicism.
I even saw on social media someone wrote that Catholicism is archaic. Well of course it is what major religion isn't. This is just arter the high court decisions to release Pell. Here's the thing the system is innocent until proven guilty and it was a unanimous decision. The alternative would be to have a system where your guilty until proven innocent.
- Sep 17, 2019
- 22,615
- 35,672
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #4,708
1. Christian is not a race
2. Hitler used the support of Christians; they accepted his ideology
3. Pell was not proven innocent. He was let off on a technicality.
- Jan 12, 2011
- 25,402
- 35,580
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
The Pope supported Hitler
I never said Christians were a race. My point was when criticising Islam then why is the racist card pulled out. No religion is a race. So it's ok to trash a religion because of the Nazis?
What is the technicality are you talking about?
- Jan 12, 2011
- 25,402
- 35,580
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
The Technicality could be, you didn't pick your religion, it was picked for you
If you lived in Iran, you would be telling us how good Islam is
- Sep 17, 2019
- 22,615
- 35,672
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #4,712
The jury convicted him, appeal was upheld, then the High court ruled there was insufficient evidence.
The High court did not hear evidence from the victim, who by all accounts was believed by everyone, including Pell (Pell claimed it was a different pedophile)
Keep in mind there is also evidence relating to Pell from the Royal Commission, which was not made public. That will be released soon.
I guess we'll have to see. I agree with the high court ruling that it was highly unlikely that Pell did it. I feel that I've gone away from my original point which was do Christians feel like they get harshly treated in modern Australia.
- Jan 12, 2011
- 25,402
- 35,580
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Yep, no Tax paid by your Church, can start and run your own Schools and are about to get exceptions from Discrimination Laws
How do you lot ever survive?
- Sep 17, 2019
- 22,615
- 35,672
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #4,716
Perhaps if they kept their beliefs to themselves, no one would identify them as Christians.
It's not a very personal connection to God, if you need to advertise it on a bumper sticker.
I don't think having a bumper sticker is really doing any harm. I don't agree with door knocking though if people want to join a church they will no need to bother people at home.
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
The HC found that based on the evidence the jury should not have found him guilty and the the Appeals Court should have kicked cleared Pell as well.
Sorry I’m no fan of Pell but if a jury (should have) finds you not guilty on lack of evidence I’ve got a right to say I was innocent. Don’t think that’s a technicality. This was an important legal case and too many have not been able to separate from emotion.
- Sep 17, 2019
- 22,615
- 35,672
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #4,719
Nah, I believe the victim. As did the court that heard his testimony, the jury that convicted him.
HC did not do that.
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
HC basically said jury made wrong decision and so did Appeal Court.
- Sep 17, 2019
- 22,615
- 35,672
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #4,721
Andrew Bolt said the same thing. Doesn't make it right.
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
Hey? We’re talking about the HC, talking about justice system. Anyway, not the forum for this discussion
- Moderator
- #4,723
As I've said repeatedly, I'm of the view that holds that nothing is known, or is likely to be known, of the existence of a deistic God or gods or indeed of anything beyond material phenomena.
Even you have said man cannot define 'god'. Any imagining of God is just that...the product of man's imagination. Like all gods of any religion.
Jesus may well have existed, but I reject claims by his followers as to his divinity. This includes his purported miracles, his physical 'resurrection' from the dead and bodily ascension into Heaven. Any claims that any of those events happened are by faith only.
Ascension stories for example were fairly common around the time of Jesus. The Jews told ascension to heaven stories of Enoch, Ezra, Baruch the companion of the prophet Jeremiah, Levi the son of the patriarch Jacob and the reputed ancestor of the priestly caste, the Teacher of Righteousness, Elijah, Moses as well as the children of Job, (who according to the Testament of Job ascended heaven following their resurrection from the dead).
From outside Jewish literature, many people would have been familiar with the case of the emperor Augustus, whose ascent was supposedly witnessed; Romulus the founder of Rome, who, like Jesus, was supposedly taken to heaven in a cloud; the Greek hero Heracles (Hercules) who ascended to Olympus in a large dark cloud.
Augustus himself actively promoted the imperial cult with the idea that his great uncle and adoptive father Gaius Julius Caesar at his death had been taken up to heaven and been made a god to live with the gods. Later this was applied to Augustus himself.
The historian Suetonius who was born about AD 69 – died after 122 AD wrote about the ascension of Augustus
"There was even a man of praetorian rank who swore an oath that he had seen the form of the cremated Emperor going to heaven."
There is no reason to suppose any of this is actually true.
This is 'faith' in a nutshell. 'Religion', the all-too-human socio-political structure that is brought about to administer this faith, that's the problem alot of the time.
- Moderator
- #4,725
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
