Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[chelseacarlton]

Don't you hate it when you write an essay to prove someone wrong, only to vindicate their argument?

Go back and read my comment. Did I say Rome did the oppression? No you assumed I said that. And you steered it to me trying to have a popularity contest. Just go back and read my comment again before having tunnel vision and a predisposed view of what my argument may be.

The initial oppression Christianity faced was by the Jewish Temple. Rome had no problem with Chrisitianity, it saw no threat.

Further more, you've done all the leg work to elegantly show how paltering made it's way within Christianity ranks in its early years. Thanks for that, saved me a lot of time.

The point I was trying to make is that even Christianity has been polluted by political and prominent social figures over the centuries. Whether ignorantly or deliberately as you've shown.

I'm telling you to look beyond that historical fact and start asking questions of why? Everything is done for a reason.

I'm laughing at your "spirituality" paragraph. The fact that you've reduced Chrisitianity to just a book and prayer shows your ignorance. Maybe you assume I'm someone that thinks that's just it? Well you couldn't be further from the truth.

My ancestors were highly spiritual. In fact today when the industrial world has fully focused on the natural world and completely ignored and even discredited the spiritual world, where I'm from spirituality is still a big part of the culture. I can tell you that it's nothing like the western world "spirituality". It's on another level. The western world is spiritually deaf to the actual spiritual world. Hence why you see a decline in "organised religion". I hate to break it to you but that's certainly not Chrisitianity. That's dead Christianity, lip service. Most people in the western world will never experience true Christianity as long as they stick to the so called organised religion here. When we first moved to Australia, even at my tender age of 11, I could sense the dead or nonexistent belief of the spiritual world. People who said they were "spiritual" were nothing more than pseudo spiritualists.

I'm not talking about hipster new aged spirituality either. Over the last 6-8 months, people from the island my father's from have travelled great distances attempting to "get to" my parents. When I say travel, I don't mean using a mode of transport you're familiar with. And normally it's a 1 night travel thing, meaning they do it in one night.

Now normally their methods work on their targets if and only if their targets aren't Christians with strong faith (I'll explain). One of the best things to happen to my country of origin was the introduction of Christianity. Before that, it was rife with witchcraft. That being the main method to unfairly settle disputes. It wasn't until the introduction of Christianity that people realised their so called "power" was limited.

That being said, the reason why I'm a "fundamentalist" as you put, is not because I read a book and prayed . I've experienced what that book has stated multiple times in my short life:
- I've seen the power the name of Jesus Christ carries in the spiritual world. I can guarantee you, no other "mythological" name if that's what you want to call it, has the same effect on people who practice witchcraft where I'm from.

- In fact, people who are steeped in witchcraft never come near a believer because they can sense the power that radiates from the believers faith. I remember when I was younger and we were on dad's island for holidays and a well known "magic man" as they called him, would not set foot in the same house as my mum. His exact words were, if I went into the house, I would be struck down dead. All because he was heavily involved in witchcraft. And because the house we stayed in was prayed over.

- the islands where my parents are from only has one dominant religion which has established buildings. Not because there haven't been any other religions. It's the only belief that has proven to have no rival against our cultural spiritual belief and ways. That's a fact you can take to the bank. The country has minority religions, but among the islands where witchcraft is big, only one exists and only one is king. No other religion that I know of has tried their "luck" on those notorious islands.

- the reason why those people have been trying for 6 months with no luck? The property my parents own is one of the only few in town that is surrounded by an actual fire wall (in the spiritual realm of course) on top of that, they've been told that above the property stands guard warring angels. All this because my mother being a strong Christian has proclaimed the promises of God stated in the bible.

- it's been six months and the only trouble they've ever gotten is waking up to loud bangs on the roof in the early hours of the morning. With footsteps back and forth on the roof.

So you see, no matter what you say to convince believers otherwise, someone of us have lived the so called "infinitely complex" life first hand. Some of us were born into it due to our culture. My ancestors laid worship to other spiritual beliefs before Chrisitianity was introduced to the land. Because of that, we're some of the lucky ones to have a full contrast of what it's all about. To truly understand that Jesus Christ is the real deal and there's no rival.

I may come across as harsh but I have nothing but empathy for everyone in opposition on here. You're missing out on something that's as real as me and you. And the main reason may very well be the main point that I had, paltering to keep you away from the truth.

Tell us where these islands your family hail from?

 

[Total Power]

Tell us where these islands your family hail from?

Where Jesus protects! must be a special place.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Where Jesus protects! must be a special place.

Missus cc.’s late grandpa was one of the first missionaries in the Antipodes, a highly gifted lawyer before turning his attention to poisoning the well in these islands, stripping them of their rich and very diverse spiritual and cultural beliefs.
The only defence in the discussions of had with elder family members is that in doing doing so, it brought about a form of democracy to what was a very inequitable societal hierarchy.
Anyhoo, I’m interested in which islands this person is alluding to, they’re being very ambiguous about them, after continuing to talk about them incessantly as a bridge to a highly elevated spiritual realm.

 

[Total Power]

Missus cc.’s late grandpa was one of the first missionaries in the Antipodes, a highly gifted lawyer before turning his attention to poisoning the well in these islands, stripping them of their rich and very diverse spiritual and cultural beliefs.
The only defence in the discussions of had with elder family members is that in doing doing so, it brought about a form of democracy to what was a very inequitable societal hierarchy.
Anyhoo, I’m interested in which islands this person is alluding to, they’re being very ambiguous about them, after continuing to talk about them incessantly as a bridge to a highly elevated spiritual realm.

haha every religious believer who is posting in this thread are 'elevated' to a new spiritual realm, whether it's a conversation with god, or god granting them favours or whatever! as long as it's their God! note how Muslims who were posting previously on this page claimed how they have a relationship with Allah through Q'uran. Everyone owns a gods franchise these days, it's that simple.

 

[chelseacarlton]

haha every religious believer who is posting in this thread are 'elevated' to a new spiritual realm, whether it's a conversation with god, or god granting them favours or whatever! as long as it's their God! note how Muslims who were posting previously on this page claimed how they have a relationship with Allah through Q'uran. Everyone owns a gods franchise these days, it's that simple.

Really?
There have been muslims in here?
If I’d noticed, I’m fairly certain I would have been threadbanned, I do like to rile them up by quoting their book at them and having a good chuckle.
I kinda place islam in the mormonism, scientology area of ladder believability of ridiculousness.
Religion is just a tax free word for cult.
They’re all cults, we are seeing one in the U.S at the moment, it’s exceptionally disturbing to me.

 

[Total Power]

Really?
There have been muslims in here?
If I’d noticed, I’m fairly certain I would have been threadbanned, I do like to rile them up by quoting their book at them and having a good chuckle.
I kinda place islam in the mormonism, scientology area of ladder believability of ridiculousness.
Religion is just a tax free word for cult.
They’re all cults, we are seeing one in the U.S at the moment, it’s exceptionally disturbing to me.

Yep and they also said Jesus was not a son of God and Bible is not authentic, cause the original writings were not preserved etc etc. I asked our fellow apologist Vdubs about this on what he thinks about Muslims calling Christianity false, he refused to answer the question! typical! my god is better than yours, it's a never ending story and we are in 2020!

 

[chelseacarlton]

Yep and they also said Jesus was not a son of God and Bible is not authentic, cause the original writings were not preserved etc etc. I asked our fellow apologist Vdubs about this on what he thinks about Muslims calling Christianity false, he refused to answer the question! typical! my god is better than yours, it's a never ending story and we are in 2020!

This entire site is based on this premise!
Lol
Lucky our overlord and best Admin in the history of the internet is a good fella!

 

[Admiral Byng]

Just out of curiosity, what was the basis of your prayers? I'm guessing you were asking for something? If it's not personal, would you mind sharing? I may be able to shed light on why prayer might not be "working" for you. Believe it or not, there's an order to prayer. It's not chaotic. That's not how God works.

Anything and everything. The most mundane daily things to the most important matters of state. We had daily prayers each morning at school. Children would mention things and the teacher would write them on the board. Then the whole class had a prayer session where each one was ticked off. Then there were special prayer requests in church, they even had lists they would pass around of things to pray for. Then there were special prayer meetings for extraordinary things like ending the drought (there was a big one in the early 1980s, about 82 or 83 IIRC). It just pervaded the whole life and existence of the church and our school. Nothing was ever attempted without a prayer first, even if it was a busy-bee on a Saturday morning to weed the church gardens.

 

[Roylion]

what are your thoughts on the Gospel of John and what i said above?

The gospel of John was written around AD 90–110, 50-70 years after the events it purports to describe. It's a highly symbolic account of the ministry of Jesus and I agree it is significantly different to the other Synoptic Gospels, being even more theological than the earlier three..

By the time of the composition of John, the legend of Jesus as told in the earlier Synoptic Gospels has now grown considerably. Instead of one boy, or two men, or one angel, now we have two angels at the empty tomb. John now has Jesus prove he is solid by showing his wounds, and breathing on people, and even obliging the Doubting Thomas by letting him put his fingers into the very wounds themselves. Like Luke, the most grandiose appearances to the disciples happen in Jerusalem, not Galilee as Mark originally claimed. John devotes more space and detail than either Luke or Matthew to demonstrate of the physicality of the resurrection, details nowhere present or even implied in Mark. It is obvious that John is trying very hard to create proof that the resurrection was the physical raising of a corpse, and at the end of a steady growth of fable, he takes considerable license to make up quite a few details. To reinforce that notion the story of the raising of Lazarus was added, a totally new 'miracle.'

The number 7 features also prominently. Seven signs. Seven "I am" discourses. Jesus does not work "miracles", but "signs" which unveil his divine identity. John also contains metaphorical stories or allegories rather than parables. As history or the recording of an actual event its is virtually worthless. What it does show is how Christians of the early 2nd century were beginning to view Jesus.

Even Clement of Alexandria implied that the Gospel of John should not be taken as a literal biography.

By the beginning of the 2nd century a tradition began to form which identified the author of the Gospel with John the Apostle. Today the majority of scholars do not believe that John or any other eyewitness wrote it.

Various objections to John the Apostle's authorship, are that the Gospel of John is a highly intellectual account of Jesus' life, and is familiar with Rabbinic traditions of biblical interpretation. The Synoptic Gospels, however, are united in identifying John as a fisherman and refers to John as "without learning" or "unlettered".

So whoever wrote the “the Gospel according to John” he/they lived sixty years after Jesus, in a different part of the world, in a different cultural context, speaking a different language - Greek rather than Aramaic - and had a completely different level of education. It certainlu cannot have been the apostle John and was thus certainly not an eyewitness to any of the purported miracles including the resurrection.

The 'Gospel according to John' also appears to have been composed in two or three stages. The earliest surviving New Testament manuscript with parts of what appear to be from the Gospel according to John is a Greek papyrus fragment discovered in Egypt in 1920. Bruce Metzger and Kurt and Barbara Aland list the probable date for this manuscript as c. AD. 125, indicating that at least one stage of John was in existence at this time.

 

[Evolved1]

Really?
There have been muslims in here?
If I’d noticed, I’m fairly certain I would have been threadbanned, I do like to rile them up by quoting their book at them and having a good chuckle.
I kinda place islam in the mormonism, scientology area of ladder believability of ridiculousness.
Religion is just a tax free word for cult.
They’re all cults, we are seeing one in the U.S at the moment, it’s exceptionally disturbing to me.

The Muslims were extremely disappointing. We had a couple join in the discussion and tell Christians they were wrong for having 3 gods, atheists wrong for having no gods, shared some very basic godbot apologetics, then threw a tantrum and left.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The Muslims were extremely disappointing. We had a couple join in the discussion and tell Christians they were wrong for having 3 gods, atheists wrong for having no gods, shared some very basic godbot apologetics, then threw a tantrum and left.

Interesting. How many Christians have thrown a tantrum and left the same chat?

 

[Boston tiger]

It's never been done. No living person has ever risen from the dead.

'Dead' being someone who has obviously completed the process of 'death'.

'Death' being the state of the body after the heart has stopped beating for a period of time and the brain has starved from lack of oxygen. The whole network of neurons has largely disintegrated, dissolved from massive cell death and the pooling of blood acids. Gases and fluids have pooled in the extremities and body cavities. Rigor mortis has set in and the body has begun to decompose.

Captain Obvious to the rescue

 

[Evolved1]

Interesting. How many Christians have thrown a tantrum and left the same chat?

Plenty, but they generally have far more staying power and tolerance towards discussing opposing views. I'm not suggesting those two are representative of the Muslim community btw.

 

[Boston tiger]

It's a completely made up notion that an omnipresent "God" created everything. Abiogenesis of course is the scientific investigation of the natural process by which life has arisen from non-living matter, such as simple organic compounds.



What 'peril' would that be?

In fact evolution is regarded as scientific fact, given that the evidence in support is so overwhelming. There has not been a single piece of evidence that has falsified evolution.



That is disputable.

Origin of everything ..? Abiogenesis?

 

[Roylion]

Captain Obvious to the rescue

it appears it is not obvious to some because it has to be explained again and again.

 

[Roylion]

Origin of everything ..? Abiogenesis?

I thought it was obvious what I said abiogenesis was. Do I have to explain it again?

What I did say was “it’s a completely made up notion that an omnipresent "God" created everything.” I see no evidence in support of the contrary.

I could explain The Big Bang theory again and the evidence in support of it, but that’s obvious.

 

[chelseacarlton]

The Muslims were extremely disappointing. We had a couple join in the discussion and tell Christians they were wrong for having 3 gods, atheists wrong for having no gods, shared some very basic godbot apologetics, then threw a tantrum and left.

Kudos to them for joining in though, muslims are the least numerous in having their beliefs challenged in organised debate, of the 3 middle eastern death cults.
A pat on the head for each of them!
Prolly my favourites would be Hitchens v Tariq Ramadan, Krauss v Tzortzis and David Wood(christian) v Osama Abdallah.
David Wood is quality man.....don’t know why he’s a christian to be honest, a shitstirrer any atheist would be proud to be.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Origin of everything ..? Abiogenesis?

Shersh, you struggle to know or understand the difference mate!

 

[Evolved1]

Kudos to them for joining in though, muslims are the least numerous in having their beliefs challenged in organised debate, of the 3 middle eastern death cults.
A pat on the head for each of them!
Prolly my favourites would be Hitchens v Tariq Ramadan, Krauss v Tzortzis and David Wood(christian) v Osama Abdallah.
David Wood is quality man.....don’t know why he’s a christian to be honest, a shitstirrer any atheist would be proud to be.

I haven't watched any debates involving Muslims yet. I took the view that since Christianity is bullshit, Islam is also bullshit...genius huh?

It will give me something to do when I'm in the mood for watching religious debates so I appreciate you sharing the recommendations. Cheers.

 

[Evolved1]

Shersh, you struggle to know or understand the difference mate!

Christians still think that 1+1+1=1 so we shouldn't expect much of them.

 

[Vdubs]

Christians still think that 1+1+1=1 so we shouldn't expect much of them.

1=1=1
Correct.
Fundamental .
Christianity is not additive.

 

[Gethelred]

1=1=1
Correct.
Fundamental .
Christianity is not additive.

Belief is addictive, though.

 

[Evolved1]

1=1=1
Correct.
Fundamental .
Christianity is not additive.

The trinity is one of those things I have never understood, and I'm a numbers person.

 

[Vdubs]

The trinity is one of those things I have never understood, and I'm a numbers person.

It is a pure faith issue.
I get it, find it hard to explain it to those who really have no genuine interest in it.

 

[chelseacarlton]

I haven't watched any debates involving Muslims yet. I took the view that since Christianity is bullshit, Islam is also bullshit...genius huh?

It will give me something to do when I'm in the mood for watching religious debates so I appreciate you sharing the recommendations. Cheers.

Watch the Krauss one first, he ****ing schools Hamza in ways akin to being intellectually drawn and quartered.
Hamza is a smart bloke, charming and engaging, but he struggles with aligning his negation of ideas with sublimely ridiculous word saladry and conceptual reality.
I think he’s a philosophy major with Islamic and middle eastern political studies or something, I like him, a Greek muslim, he’s an oddity.