Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Evolved1]

As long as we are no threat to your lot, don't worry, be happy for us.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Total Power]

As long as we are no threat to your lot, don't worry, be happy for us.

I am not worried what you believe in, we are here to have a discussion, which you can't/not willing to, cause all argument boils down to '2 billion people' . So others are ignorant, so shall you? For once why not use your brain, which nature has given you?

 

[Evolved1]

I am not worried what you believe in, we are here to have a discussion, which you can't/not willing to, cause all argument boils down to '2 billion people' . So others are ignorant, so shall you? For once why not use your brain, which nature has given you?

Mate, our flesh was corrupted because a man ate an apple at the dawning of the Universe 6000 years ago.

The only reason we don't get it is because the devil has blinded us. Two billion people can't be wrong. It makes a lot of sense after a case of beer or an hour in church.

 

[Vdubs]

Ignorance is bliss.

How would you know?

 

[Gough]

Wtf would you want to go to heaven? It sounds really, really shit.

 

[darcytiger]

Ahh yes, can see the blokes who wrote the Old Testament all those years ago really wanting to clamp down on people who are addicted to video games.

 

[Gethelred]

Ahh yes, can see the blokes who wrote the Old Testament all those years ago really wanting to clamp down on people who are addicted to video games.

"Forgive me, Father for I have sinned. It has been a week since my last confession, and I have been desperately praying to God for strength but it just keeps happening!"

"Calm yourself, my son! All can be forgiven by the Lord. Now tell me, what keeps happening, my son? What sins are you guilty of? Lust? Gluttony? Fornication?"

"No Father. My sin is much direr. I feel revulsion even acknowledging it before you, Father."

"The Lord cannot absolve you of a sin you cannot admit, my son."

"Father..."

Clears throat.

"Father, I have been... playing Animal Crossing."

 

[Vdubs]

I am not worried what you believe in, we are here to have a discussion, which you can't/not willing to, cause all argument boils down to '2 billion people' . So others are ignorant, so shall you? For once why not use your brain, which nature has given you?

Not really- you are here to TELL us how deluded, blinded, ignorant and biased we are; and that our knowledge by faith can't be proven, tested or tried; and that you have the answers.
Sorry guys John 3:16 is the perfect cornerstone of Christianity.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Total Power]

Not really- you are here to TELL us how deluded, blinded, ignorant and biased we are; and that our knowledge by faith can't be proven, tested or tried; and that you have the answers.
Sorry guys John 3:16 is the perfect cornerstone of Christianity.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

And? how is it relevant to our discussion that Genesis is entirely copied? oh wait, you lost another argument and now shifted goalposts again?

Yeah more claims to prove what? more claims? awesome. So what did you learn from the discussion? did you read the Epic of Gilgamesh? i assume you didn't. How Genesis not copied from that? How's did several sayings of Jesus not copied from Buddhism? Remember without Genesis you do not have Jesus. I am merely trying to point out that Genesis was plagiarized. I am not trying to convince you of anything cause your logic is '2 billion people have their head in sand, hence it's settled'. Terrible logic and you keep quoting the Bible as if it proves anything (if only it was original too, you will still have a point).

Your inability to hold a discussion on a certain subject and parrot the evangelical lines (as it they prove anything) gives away you really have nothing. But back on 3;16


"For god so loved the world, that whosoever dwelleth within it should not perish but have eternal life."

Wouldn't that be a much better line? None of this creating-the-shiniest-sacrifice. None of this oh-but-you-have-to-believe. But no, god "so loved the world", he created a small loophole-with-conditions in the rules he also created in the first place.If he has so much love, it shouldn't have to be contingent on thinking the way he wants you to think.

What I really don't understand is the Believers who see this quote as being positive because an all-powerful being has every reason in the universe to allow someone to be tortured and executed cause they won't believe in him due to insufficient evidence. Don't follow your conscience at all, be a slave. Yeah, i pity you.

Eternal life for believing in an attention seeking petulant creator...and the big deal is? Allah promises the same too btw, why take a chance? Religions operate the same way, those of us who have escaped it can be, it's bullshit plagiarized stories to create sheep like you.

As if 3:16 supposed to be good, if at all, it proves how terrible your version of God is.

 

[Vdubs]

And? how is it relevant to our discussion that Genesis is entirely copied? oh wait, you lost another argument and now shifted goalposts again?

Yeah more claims to prove what? more claims? awesome. So what did you learn from the discussion? did you read the Epic of Gilgamesh? i assume you didn't. How Genesis not copied from that? How's did several sayings of Jesus not copied from Buddhism? Remember without Genesis you do not have Jesus. I am merely trying to point out that Genesis was plagiarized. I am not trying to convince you of anything cause your logic is '2 billion people have their head in sand, hence it's settled'. Terrible logic and you keep quoting the Bible as if it proves anything (if only it was original too, you will still have a point).

Your inability to hold a discussion on a certain subject and parrot the evangelical lines (as it they prove anything) gives away you really have nothing. But back on 3;16


"For god so loved the world, that whosoever dwelleth within it should not perish but have eternal life."

Wouldn't that be a much better line? None of this creating-the-shiniest-sacrifice. None of this oh-but-you-have-to-believe. But no, god "so loved the world", he created a small loophole-with-conditions in the rules he also created in the first place.If he has so much love, it shouldn't have to be contingent on thinking the way he wants you to think.

What I really don't understand is the Believers who see this quote as being positive because an all-powerful being has every reason in the universe to allow someone to be tortured and executed cause they won't believe in him due to insufficient evidence. Don't follow your conscience at all, be a slave. Yeah, i pity you.

Eternal life for believing in an attention seeking petulant creator...and the big deal is? Allah promises the same too btw, why take a chance? Religions operate the same way, those of us who have escaped it can be, it's bullshit plagiarized stories to create sheep like you.

As if 3:16 supposed to be good, if at all, it proves how terrible your version of God is.

Another rant over.
Your posts are always so angry, as if you become haughtier when you don't get the reply you were fishing for.
But playing the ball and not the man as all good players should do, I will stick to John 3:16 because it is the essence of our faith. You can shove your conspiracy or evidentiary words about Genesis where you like.
You can not tamper with the gem that 3:16 is.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Man is the only animal that is aware of its impending death and wishes for life to never end. Religion and beliefs supply that fantasy. I have given the best of reasons, supplied the best of evidence to show Adam and Eve was copied and what answer did i get? same argument as every thing else ' but 2 billion people.....'

But i still don't think it can be boiled down to anything simple, but among the many factors, I think there's a lot of comfort in believing someone is looking out for you, even if you don't have any evidence at all for it. And the fact that so many people seem to agree with that, despite being fallacious reasoning, makes you feel better about that belief, despite the continued lack of evidence. There's a reason arguments ad populum still creep up so often despite being pointed out as bad reasoning: As social creatures, we're wired to like such an argument.

Yep. Because we've evolved to a sufficient level of consciousness as to be aware of our mortality, it fairly understandably leads us to think we're special, that there must be some higher purpose to our lives, such that when they end, there's gotta be something more.

Although understandable, there is no reason to think this. Most of us agree there's no life before birth so it's pretty sensible to assume there's no life after death.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Wtf would you want to go to heaven? It sounds really, really sh*t.

View attachment 1263337

That's quite the grab bag.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

And it's a long time since I've read a bible but I'm reasonably confident Revelations was written before Islam, gaming and pr0n existed.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Not really- you are here to TELL us how deluded, blinded, ignorant and biased we are; and that our knowledge by faith can't be proven, tested or tried; and that you have the answers.
Sorry guys John 3:16 is the perfect cornerstone of Christianity.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

You need to realise John 3:16 is not the clincher you guys think it is.

 

[Total Power]

Another rant over.
Your posts are always so angry, as if you become haughtier when you don't get the reply you were fishing for.
But playing the ball and not the man as all good players should do, I will stick to John 3:16 because it is the essence of our faith. You can shove your conspiracy or evidentiary words about Genesis where you like.
You can not tamper with the gem that 3:16 is.

You are not going to bait me VD. I am not angry, i am trying to have a discussion over how Genesis is copied, your inability to have a proper discussion like a grown up INTELLIGENT adult is the source of my frustration. I have clearly stated why 3:16 is ****. There's nothing 'great' about it no matter how hard you try.

 

[Total Power]

Yep. Because we've evolved to a sufficient level of consciousness as to be aware of our mortality, it fairly understandably leads us to think we're special, that there must be some higher purpose to our lives, such that when they end, there's gotta be something more.

Although understandable, there is no reason to think this. Most of us agree there's no life before birth so it's pretty sensible to assume there's no life after death.

I do not agree with this, you are looking at the world from your PoV, not from a typical human perspective. The world is full of sorrow, sadness, injustice, violence and most people live in extreme misery. Those of us who have escaped religion and are from a first world country can understand, but those who have nothing to live for, tend to be religious. Why? Hope. This is what drives the world, this is what drives life. There will be justice after i die, there will be freedom and reward for this horrible life as God eventually makes up for it.

When Vdubs parrot John 3:16 he forgets to mention how 3/4th of the world is living in extreme misery and extreme suffering. So what gives the? hope. I have worked in Rwanda, i have seen it first hand, those who have nothing in life, have God. Why? Justice, equality and last but not the least hope! This is why Abrahamic religion sells, Islam no different. Pray, beg and even if you do not get it in this life you will rewarded in your next life or be in heaven for being obedient to God.

 

[Vdubs]

You are not going to bait me VD. I am not angry, i am trying to have a discussion over how Genesis is copied, your inability to have a proper discussion like a grown up INTELLIGENT adult is the source of my frustration. I have clearly stated why 3:16 is ****. There's nothing 'great' about it no matter how hard you try.

Your Modus Operandi is always to CLEARLY STATE, to tell, to belittle, to question a believer's IQ.
That is fair enough.
It comes down to FAITH.
John 3:16 is truly excellent.
I don't need to try anything about that.
Would be great if you ponder on that without your usual approach which is to try and pull it apart.
No need.
I have ZERO interest in discussing the genesis of Genesis.
It is a noteworthy book in the OT of the greatest book ever written.
Christianity as you know , is about Jesus Christ, the man who God has given to mankind to bridge the gap between us and God. Belief in him is the way to God. It is imperative to admit sin is a factor that separates us from God, and Jesus was given to us to remember FOREVER, as The Man who was crucified for all of mankind's sin.
Christianity is belief in that.

 

[Vdubs]

You need to realise John 3:16 is not the clincher you guys think it is.

Not so Speedy.
I need to ponder on that verse more often.

 

[Total Power]

Your Modus Operandi is always to CLEARLY STATE, to tell, to belittle, to question a believer's IQ.
That is fair enough.
It comes down to FAITH.
John 3:16 is truly excellent.
I don't need to try anything about that.
Would be great if you ponder on that without your usual approach which is to try and pull it apart.
No need.
I have ZERO interest in discussing the genesis of Genesis.
It is a noteworthy book in the OT of the greatest book ever written.
Christianity as you know , is about Jesus Christ, the man who God has given to mankind to bridge the gap between us and God. Belief in him is the way to God. It is imperative to admit sin is a factor that separates us from God, and Jesus was given to us to remember FOREVER, as The Man who was crucified for all of mankind's sin.
Christianity is belief in that.

I know plenty of intelligent believers, you are not one of them. I was discussing Genesis, and it's authenticity. Why did you move your goalposts to John 3:16 all of a sudden? Do you disagree that Genesis was copied? if no, provide your reasons or just concede it was copied. My argument is if Genesis was copied everything that's derived from it is fake.

You have zero interest in discussing Genesis which are the very roots of Christianity shows you are lost and your desperation to BELIEVE has led you down this path. I am ok with you, if you are happy in life.

 

[Vdubs]

I know plenty of intelligent believers, you are not one of them. I was discussing Genesis, and it's authenticity. Why did you move your goalposts to John 3:16 all of a sudden? Do you disagree that Genesis was copied? if no, provide your reasons or just concede it was copied. My argument is if Genesis was copied everything that's derived from it is fake.

You have zero interest in discussing Genesis which are the very roots of Christianity shows you are lost and your desperation to BELIEVE has led you down this path. I am ok with you, if you are happy in life.

Discussing Genesis with you is fruitless. It is not a discussion.
It is your topic of the day.
I would rather discuss Jesus. But that is weird on a thread like this one- Ask A Christian.

 

[Total Power]

Discussing Genesis with you is fruitless. It is not a discussion.
It is your topic of the day.
I would rather discuss Jesus. But that is weird on a thread like this one- Ask A Christian.

You are one confused puppy. Paul frequently mentions Adam and Eve in his theology, strongly suggesting that he understood Adam and Eve were once real people. Jude makes reference to the writings of Enoch (as does the writer of Hebrews I believe). Many authors (including Paul) made reference to a literal Abraham. Jesus in Matthew states ' i am the God of Abraham'. Did he or did he not? Did Jesus refer to Adam as 'the man' and Eve as the 'woman' in Matthew? Yes he did, are you saying Jesus was clueless? yeah he was. Cause he didn't exist.

When Paul takes about Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, etc, he understands such people to be real people, not mythical allegorical literary creations to represent some humanistic story or whatnot.

Without Paul there is no NT. Paul is the first person to have mentioned and preached about Jesus.

Your concepts of Jesus AND Salvation (aka Original Sin) is pointless without Genesis, it doesn't dawn on you hey? There's no Christian doctrine without Genesis. Don't tell me you are that dumb you don't understand this?

Why is it that the sayings of Jesus and Buddha were the same? who came first? it's not plagurism, cause you said so? Why does the story of Moses appear in Sumerian mythology exactly the same way as it did in OT? God couldn't even say something ORIGINAL? why borrowed concepts?

It's only fruitless to a defeated man. You are one. I repeatedly said, i don't care about what you believe but my curiosity is about why you believe. The answer is quite simple, it's always 'it's true cause i said so'.

You really are clueless aren't you? you make a good parrot but you are embarrassing yourself here now. You don' even know what frauds like Paul and Jesus said...oh dear, not looking good for you , is it?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Not so Speedy.
I need to ponder on that verse more often.

I’m not talking about what it means to you. I’m talking about what it means to non-Christians.

A lot of Christians believe John 3:16 is music to the ears of non-believers, like it’s invested with some sort of magical logic that will prove irresistible.

“For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life”.

Let’s parse these words from the viewpoint of a rational person who is yet to be convinced of what you clearly consider the irresistible logic of Christianity.

*We have no evidence that “god” created the universe.

*Even if there is a force behind the creation of the universe, there is zero reason to assign it any sort of identity (let alone gender lol).

*Even if there is a force behind the creation of the universe, there is zero reason to attribute to it any sort of human emotions like love. If this unproven entity really was omniscient as you claim it is, it would certainly not be hostage to the influence of such trivialities.

*Even if there is a force behind the creation of the universe, it is ridiculous and juvenile to think of it having offspring.

(Let’s not forget, you Christians make much of god saying “I am”. Viewed semiotically, proclaiming “I am” rather loses its uniqueness and impact when it’s immediately followed by “oh, and by the way, we’ve had a kid!” don’t you think?)

*Even if there is a force behind the creation of the universe, it’s ridiculous to assume it would be so Trumpian in its need for reassurance as to create some sort of TV gameshow-style “The money or the box” test for the inhabitants of one lump of rock, of the billions currently hurtling through space.

*We so far have zero reason to believe that there is anything after death other than the oblivion from whence we came. So offers of a One Time Only deal from an entirely unproven entity are hardly going to sway everyone, are they?

*And let’s not even consider the troubling issue of the competing claims of all the other religions (some followed by billions).

So I suggest you Christians look around for a different tack, because John 3:16 just ain’t up to it.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I do not agree with this, you are looking at the world from your PoV, not from a typical human perspective. The world is full of sorrow, sadness, injustice, violence and most people live in extreme misery. Those of us who have escaped religion and are from a first world country can understand, but those who have nothing to live for, tend to be religious. Why? Hope. This is what drives the world, this is what drives life. There will be justice after i die, there will be freedom and reward for this horrible life as God eventually makes up for it.

When Vdubs parrot John 3:16 he forgets to mention how 3/4th of the world is living in extreme misery and extreme suffering. So what gives the? hope. I have worked in Rwanda, i have seen it first hand, those who have nothing in life, have God. Why? Justice, equality and last but not the least hope! This is why Abrahamic religion sells, Islam no different. Pray, beg and even if you do not get it in this life you will rewarded in your next life or be in heaven for being obedient to God.

I’m not sure we’re at odds here. What you’ve said concords entirely with what I said.

We have evolved to a level of consciousness such that we believe there must be some explanation for the suffering and cruelty and injustice we see everywhere. In our abject failure to make any sort of inroads against any of it - and because we have evolved enough to understand our own mortality - we shift to thinking the only possible explanation for all this suffering is that there is a second act.

That is hope, as you said.

And as I said, that is understandable, but people need to remember the actual evidence for that, is what it has always been: zero.

 

[Gough]

Al least normal churches don't force tithing. Imagine being among Scott's shower of morons and having spent a fortune over a lifetime you end up ash on a rose garden or rotting in a box like the rest of us muppets.

 

[Total Power]

I’m not talking about what it means to you. I’m talking about what it means to non-Christians.

A lot of Christians believe John 3:16 is music to the ears of non-believers, like it’s invested with some sort of magical logic that will prove irresistible.

“For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life”.

Let’s parse these words from the viewpoint of a rational person who is yet to be convinced of what you clearly consider the irresistible logic of Christianity.

*We have no evidence that “god” created the universe.

*Even if there is a force behind the creation of the universe, there is zero reason to assign it any sort of identity (let alone gender lol).

*Even if there is a force behind the creation of the universe, there is zero reason to attribute to it any sort of human emotions like love. If this unproven entity really was omniscient as you claim it is, it would certainly not be hostage to the influence of such trivialities.

*Even if there is a force behind the creation of the universe, it is ridiculous and juvenile to think of it having offspring.

Let’s not forget, the bible makes much of god saying “I am”. Viewed semiotically, proclaiming “I am” rather loses its uniqueness and impact when it’s immediately followed by “oh, and by the way, we’ve had a kid!” don’t you think?

*Even if there is a force behind the creation of the universe, it’s ridiculous to assume it would be so Trumpian in its need for reassurance as to create some sort of TV game show-style “The money or the box” test for the inhabitants of one lump of rock, of the billions currently hurtling through space.

*We so far have zero reason to believe that there is anything after death other than the oblivion from whence we came. So offers of a One Time Only deal from an entirely unproven entity are hardly going to sway everyone, are they?

*And let’s not even consider the troubling issue of the competing claims of all the other religions (some followed by billions).

So I suggest you Christians look around for a different tack, because John 3:16 just ain’t up to it.

Haha love it. I mean for God so loved a tiny sliver of ancient Palestine that he became human and mumbled cryptic, contradictory statements and left us with a book manipulated for 1,000 years, plagiarized and copied from other cultures but contains awesome info about how people might be saved, and “fulfilled” messiah prophecies that were not actually prophecies from the Old Testament, which Jews accurately recognized were not fulfillment of their Messiah prophecies.

the book that gives us this AMAZING and GREAT news according to our friend Vdubs is filled with contradictions and errors, and God mercifully allowed news of this awesome salvation from himself to spread naturally and slowly rather than telling the whole world about it. And anyone who thinks this is sketchy in the SLIGHTEST knows in their heart that it’s actually true (yeah yeah i know right?) but just wants to deny it and sin, and therefore deserves to burn alive for trillions upon trillions upon trillions of years, which is of course only the beginning because it’s for eternity. But God is love!!!

All this terrible effort cause God sacrifice Himself, to Himself, to save us from Himself, because of a rule He made Himself? Cause an infant ate an apple from a tree with a talking snake! sheesh.