Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Anyone care to fire up a 'Ask a Muslim' or 'Ask a Hindu' thread?

No point it will all turn into a christian bash thread anyway. Im pretty sure christians are to blame for isis. If you read these forums

 

[Procrastinator35]

Anyone care to fire up a 'Ask a Muslim' thread?

Yeah, I can just see that one ending well.....'Sharia Law', 'Mohammed was a Paedo', 'Allah sux'. 'Allahu Akbar'....Done.

 

[HARKER]

No point it will all turn into a christian bash thread anyway. Im pretty sure christians are to blame for isis. If you read these forums

Well, it shouldn't, but yes it may.

It's OK to push and then get pushed back, if both parties actually want to learn something.
Even in heated battle, one may come out a little wiser than when they entered that battle.....we may not know it at the time but a seed may be planted.
It would be nice to have these discussions in a respectful manner, but yes, that does take a lot of work and sometimes we just want the easy way out.

So.....Anyone game?

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Well, it shouldn't, but yes it may.

It's OK to push and then get pushed back, if both parties actually want to learn something.
Even in heated battle, one may come out a little wiser than when they entered that battle.....we may not know it at the time but a seed may be planted.
It would be nice to have these discussions in a respectful manner, but yes, that does take a lot of work and sometimes we just want the easy way out.

So.....Anyone game?

Have you seen this thread? its about asking a christian. And its gone all over the place from saying its religion vs science, to the reason africans have aids.

 

[HARKER]

Have you seen this thread? its about asking a christian. And its gone all over the place from saying its religion vs science, to the reason africans have aids.

That's why I walked out of it.
I think the op has disappeared also.

 

[Procrastinator35]

That's why I walked out of it.
I think the op has disappeared also.

To be fair though, the level of argumentation steadily increased upon their absence.

 

[HARKER]

To be fair though, the level of argumentation steadily increased upon their absence.

That's a good thing. I should stay away more often, then.

 

[Procrastinator35]

That's a good thing. I should stay away more often, then.

You're admitting to an alias troll?

 

[HARKER]

You're admitting to an alias troll?

I'm admitting that sometimes some people can suffocate a discussion.

I think that I've done that at times, unfortunately and who knows.....you may have done so also. Maybe.
That's what I'm admitting. Have you anything to admit?

 

[little graham]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-atheist-arguments-which-arent-helping-anyone/

Forts?

 

[Procrastinator35]

I'm admitting that sometimes some people can suffocate a discussion.

I think that I've done that at times, unfortunately and who knows.....you may have done so also. Maybe.
That's what I'm admitting. Have you anything to admit?

You might need to start a 'Confessions' thread....I'll bring the flagellation whips.

 

[skilts]

You might need to start a 'Confessions' thread....I'll bring the flagellation whips.

I'll flagellator, just not now, too busy.

 

[madmug]

Completely agree.
Im sure there are some cases where people really think its gods will. But christanity is blamed for everything by everyone including some christians.

Islam is the same. They have 'scholars' who study & 'interpret' the meanings in the Koran. Its BS. Its just personal bias as to how they operationalise it. Thats why its such a male orientated religion.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Islam is the same. They have 'scholars' who study & 'interpret' the meanings in the Koran. Its BS. Its just personal bias as to how they operationalise it. Thats why its such a male orientated religion.

I think i get your point. But it isnt the same.
Christianity gets compared to islam all the time. But christanity also gets bashed all the time while people are too scared to talk about islam.
And the number of christians who say negative stuff about homosexuals doesnt even get near the number of muslims who would actually kill someone for being a homosexual.

 

[madmug]

I think i get your point. But it isnt the same.
Christianity gets compared to islam all the time. But christanity also gets bashed all the time while people are too scared to talk about islam.
And the number of christians who say negative stuff about homosexuals doesnt even get near the number of muslims who would actually kill someone for being a homosexual.

Who's too scared to talk about Islam? The extremist fundys get criticised all the time & get blown up by drones all the time. The Fundys kill anyone, homosexuals, infidels, but kill their own people more often than not, certainly more than non Islamics.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Who's too scared to talk about Islam? The extremist fundys get criticised all the time & get blown up by drones all the time. The Fundys kill anyone, homosexuals, infidels, but kill their own people more often than not, certainly more than non Islamics.

Thats what i mean. thats why its crazy to compare christianity to islam.

 

[madmug]

The fact is that Christianity was pretty awful until the enlightenment settled their ways somewhat. However Islam which seemed more progressive for its cultural aspects & the sciences went the other way.

Thats a very rough view of it all, but it'd be an interesting topic on its own. The history of religion is very interesting, very political, very blood thirsty, very human! Its key to the development of the modern world as we know it.

 

[Jack Gun Cyril Stun]

Did you read the bit about Uganda? And Thailand V Phillipines.
Do some research ? South Africa are having another try with the condoms because it hasn't been working.

Mathematically condoms work but you can't put one the person for them.

The Harvard researcher who said Pope Benedict was right—condoms won’t stop AIDS—returns to the fray.

In 2009, when he was still head of Harvard’s AIDS Prevention Research project, Edward C. Green shocked the world’s AIDS establishment by supporting Pope Benedict XVI’s now-famous warning that condoms could not solve Africa’s AIDS crisis.

After that, both “frustrated” and “burnt out,”–so he told LifeSiteNews—by his decade-long fight against the condom fallacy, Green took himself out of the international spotlight. Until last month, that is.

That’s when he told National Review readers that the world AIDS-fighting strategies involving drug treatments, testing, and condoms are ineffective to the point of being counter-productive, that is—they may be making things worse.

Ostensibly his piece is a rebuttal of an August 25 New York Times article by Donald McNeil titled “AIDS Progress in South Africa is in Peril.” But Green’s essay, written with Allison Ruark and titled “AIDS in South Africa,” is actually a broad indictment of world anti-AIDS strategies.

McNeil’s thesis is that the withdrawal of U.S. government funds for antiretroviral drugs (ARV) will reverse recent success in fighting AIDS in South Africa. That thesis is incorrect on both counts, argue Green and Ruark. The loss of funds won’t halt “progress,” because there hasn’t been any progress, and, anyway, drugs haven’t reduced infection rates as hoped.

Based on South African government numbers released in 2013, they write, “There has been virtually no change in HIV incidence among adults,” and certainly nothing like the one third decrease claimed by McNeil, in years when ARV became readily available.”

Green and Ruark rule out condoms as having any effect in South Africa because their use rose and fell through the 1990s with no effect on infection rates.

So why has AIDS continued to newly infect 1.7 per cent of the adults in South Africa each year while the infection rate in the rest of Africa declines? And what—this has long been Dr. Green’s preoccupation—did Uganda do that was so successful in reducing AIDS in the 1990s only to see these gains reduced in the new Millennium?

Behavior modification, he maintains. And it could work just as well in South Africa but isn’t being tried. Dr. Green stated in his book Broken Promises that millions of lives could have been saved by concerted duplication of the Uganda program.

In fact, the Uganda approach has been working at an informal, grassroots level across most of Africa with little support from the international AIDS establishment, which is instead directing considerable dollars and euros to three wrong-headed approaches: risk reduction with condoms, testing, and drug treatment.

What worked in Uganda was a behavior modification campaign that emphasised delaying sexual activity till marriage, and practising fidelity (called “zero grazing”) in marriage. This, Green told LifeSiteNews, addresses the key role played by multiple sex partnering in the spread of AIDS worldwide. The Uganda program also relied heavily on community organizations, especially the Anglican and Catholic churches, who reached the people through pulpits, schools, and hospitals. “Africans are very religious,” Dr. Green said. “It’s just foolish to ignore that.”

Equally significant was what wasn’t in the program: condoms and their underlying message that you can carry on your former sexual practices as long as you use them.

Uganda reduced its AIDS prevalence from 15 percent of adults to five percent while both men and women reduced their number of sex partners by even greater factors.

But foreign aid providers insisted Uganda shift its emphasis to condoms, testing, and drugs and eventually, Green laments, it did, which is why, in his view, AIDS infection rates began to rise again.

Why hasn’t the AIDS establishment’s stress on condoms reduced AIDS? Because, Green told LifeSiteNews, “they are one of the least effective ways to prevent pregnancy or STDs.” They have a 25-percent failure rate, perhaps because of inconsistent application by the user and product failure (they slip, leak, break, are the wrong size, etc.) Also, the supply of condoms is only sporadically replenished in Africa, with the result that risky (non-monogamous) sexual behavior is encouraged by condom propaganda, but not rendered safe.

Drugs also encourage riskiness by removing the fear of death, not least because those with AIDS no longer look like they are dying, and cannot serve as walking reminders of AIDS’s impact.

Why do Western governments and AIDS agencies persist in pushing ineffective measures while ignoring effective ones? “Ideology and financial self-interest,” Dr. Green told LifeSiteNews. The purchase of drugs and condoms for Africa enrich their manufacturers and employ many experts in the field of “risk reduction.” These are “consultants, social marketers, project team leaders, those who do voluntary testing & counseling, clinicians that get people on ARV drugs, pharmaceutical detail men,” Green said. “Think of the whole family planning industry.” They are a potent force that discourages funders from supporting programs that change behavior to fidelity and chastity.

The belief that condoms enable their users to carry on sexual activity at a pre-AIDS rate flows from the ideology of the Sexual Revolution, according to Green. It is coupled with the conviction that the sexual drive is unstoppable and efforts to contain it, for example by the moralizing of churches and Muslim mosques, is ineffective and psychologically harmful.

None of which is science-based, he says. Even though international agencies and developed world governments continue to flood Africa with condoms, what is actually reducing AIDS infection rates in most of the continent is the growing grassroots realization, motivated by common sense and fear and reinforced by moral teachings from mosques and churches, that safety lies in having fewer sexual partners.

Green is so convinced that religious reinforcement is crucial to fighting AIDS that he is back in Uganda promoting an ecumenical effort, involving Anglicans, Catholics, and Muslims, to reduce AIDS. His critics in the AIDS establishment “roll their eyes and say I sound like a holy roller,” he told LifeSiteNews. “They say I’ve got religion. But we are the ones are being scientific. They are in the grips of ideology.”


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You should have a chat with 3 nuns I know that have worked in Africa for years and in great frustration and against all policy from on high hand out as many condoms as possible. You have to be practical.

Education is the key though, but isn't it always on any issue , whether teaching kids in Africa or in western societies about the dangers/ realities of AIDS or pornography general or local.

But what is your view on sex for pleasure? There are millions of consenting adults who happily and positively engage in it every day with no view to procreation, are they causing trouble?

 

[Jackaaa]

You should have a chat with 3 nuns I know that have worked in Africa for years and in great frustration and against all policy from on high hand out as many condoms as possible. You have to be practical.

Education is the key though, but isn't it always on any issue , whether teaching kids in Africa or in western societies about the dangers/ realities of AIDS or pornography general or local.

But what is your view on sex for pleasure? There are millions of consenting adults who happily and positively engage in it every day with no view to procreation, are they causing trouble?

Obviously not a problem if they are happily and positive about it but you'd hope its not the basis of their relationship.

If people are running around having sex for pleasure with multiple partners and with who ever they bump into I'd say they are desperately unhappy.

History shows if its pleasurable and accessible we usually exploit it and it gets out of hand. Alcohol .. pleasurable and accessible.. pornography.. gambling..

I'm thinking our sexual morality comes from way back in the day in that if you stick your dirty dick in moist spots on lots of different people your society then has a health and social problem.
On the subject of dirty dicks it looks like circumcision could be a main factor in stopping aids infection rates.



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[Judd2Sewell]

Dear Christians,

Which do you believe is more likely to occur in the future (purely hypothetical) - a world of full believers or a world of full Atheists?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Obviously not a problem if they are happily and positive about it but you'd hope its not the basis of their relationship.

If people are running around having sex for pleasure with multiple partners and with who ever they bump into I'd say they are desperately unhappy.

History shows if its pleasurable and accessible we usually exploit it and it gets out of hand. Alcohol .. pleasurable and accessible.. pornography.. gambling..

I'm thinking our sexual morality comes from way back in the day in that if you stick your dirty dick in moist spots on lots of different people your society then has a health and social problem.
On the subject of dirty dicks it looks like circumcision could be a main factor in stopping aids infection rates.



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wat?

 

[Total Power]

wat?

I think he needs to get laid lol

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Have you seen this thread? its about asking a christian. And its gone all over the place from saying its religion vs science, to the reason africans have aids.

That's rather disingenuous.

Religion is in no way the reason why African's have Aids - Aids being an extremely infectious disease, and a lack of education, is why people have Aids.

My point was the Pope claiming that condoms make the problem worse and commanding his followers not to use them does not help the problem, but in fact makes it much worse.

That was my point put extremely concisely.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Dear Christians,

When do you believe the rapture will occur?

Further to this (and assuming your opinion is based on the scriptures), what areas of the Bible allude to this?

 

[Jackaaa]

wat?

You are really learning a lot here aren't you. How's your research on the spread of aids where condoms has been the main focus.


"
There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%. Three randomized controlled trials have shown that male circumcision provided by well trained health professionals in properly equipped settings is safe. WHO/UNAIDS recommendations emphasize that male circumcision should be considered an efficacious intervention for HIV prevention in countries and regions with heterosexual epidemics, high HIV and low male circumcision prevalence."


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