Politics Aussie Fascists, (neo)Nazis and Leg Spinners

[phantom13]

Australian anti-Islamic activist Shermon Burgess becomes the latest far-right figure to convert to Islam

Across the world there's a trend of far-right figures — many of them prominent Islamophobes — converting to Islam to counter rising 'wokeness'.

www.crikey.com.au

 

[Carringbush2010]

Ok, so you are saying that the people who attended the nazi organised protest, marched behind nazis and listened and cheered to the nazis speech…. might only be 50 % nazi?

AFAIA this was advertised as 'March for Australia' rally - selling a false narrative that immigration is a cause of many problems, I wasn't aware that Nazis actually organised it beforehand, I'm sure many weren't, this wasn't made clearly aware in the media

This rally was not sold as 'join us nazis', so I'm more than certain that dumb gullible folk swallowed the bs narrative of 'march for aus' - that they themselves believe they are not nazi sympathizers.

 

[Carringbush2010]

ive already adressed that morons may have attended unwittlingly.

That's all I'm saying, that doesn't mean those morons have bad intent, they're just morons.

Seems we're in agreement then.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Incorrect.

As I've stated earlier, I don't believe it's a black or white or zero or 100 situation which many are advocating.

It just isn't.

Posters on this board give the impression it's this.

'you go to the rally you're nazi sympathizer or a nazi' This is ignoring that there ARE dumb, naive, gullible people who have been sucked into false narratives that do NOT sympathize with nazis, or who believe they don't.

Then there's others who are openly racist who also don't sympathize with nazis, they just want what they think is 'the good ol days' but they're not interested in beating up brown people. Yep they have similar views, but they BELIEVE TO THEMSELVES that they're not nazi sympathizers.

And there's just flat out nazis.

To argue it's just you're nazi or not, or it's black and white or it's zero or 100 and nothing in between is counter productive and dismissive and willfully ignorant.

Please show us the vision of hundreds or thousands of people leaving the rally in Melbourne once they "realised" a Neo-Nazi was the keynote speaker...

You might not be a Nazi if you were at the rally and stuck around to hear what everyone had to say. But there is a very high chance that you're a little bit racist...

 

[phantom13]

Those that stayed, whats their excuse? The rally wasnt big enough to not see the Nazis and their speeches so why did they stay?

That's all I'm saying, that doesn't mean those morons have bad intent, they're just morons.

Seems we're in agreement then.

You keep saying people who were there and stayed arent Nazis and Nazi symathisers though, so no i dont think we are.

Adress the bolded, it was asked directly, then you can state if were in agreement.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

AFAIA this was advertised as 'March for Australia' rally - selling a false narrative that immigration is a cause of many problems, I wasn't aware that Nazis actually organised it beforehand, I'm sure many weren't, this wasn't made clearly aware in the media

This rally was not sold as 'join us nazis', so I'm more than certain that dumb gullible folk swallowed the bs narrative of 'march for aus' - that they themselves believe they are not nazi sympathizers.

You claimed it’s not Black and White…. Not zero or 100…. Clearly, you think it’s a spectrum.

So put a number or a shade of grey on it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Would depend if they left when the Nazis took the mic

No one is arguing this.

Again, I'll be clear, to me at least, this rally was sold as 'over migration is causing societal problems' not 'join us nazis'

beforehand <

 

[Beerfish]

Please show us the vision of hundreds or thousands of people leaving the rally in Melbourne once they "realised" a Neo-Nazi was the keynote speaker...

You might not be a Nazi if you were at the rally and stuck around to hear what everyone had to say. But there is a very high chance that you're a little bit racist...

It's like the voice vote. Not everyone there was a card carrying nazi but every nazi was there and if you find yourself shoulder to shoulder with nazis, well guess what?

 

[phantom13]

AFAIA this was advertised as 'March for Australia' rally - selling a false narrative that immigration is a cause of many problems, I wasn't aware that Nazis actually organised it beforehand, I'm sure many weren't, this wasn't made clearly aware in the media

This rally was not sold as 'join us nazis', so I'm more than certain that dumb gullible folk swallowed the bs narrative of 'march for aus' - that they themselves believe they are not nazi sympathizers.

It really was. Id argue you have to be wilfully ignorant not to have known this. The Nazis went to great lenghts to claim it.

In any event, it doesnt matter what they think or purport themselves to be, are you taking every racist doing the "im not racist BUT" at their word? Or do you analyse their actions and words?

 

[Carringbush2010]

You keep saying people who were there and stayed arent Nazis and Nazi symathisers though, so no i dont think we are.

No I didn't.

I've clearly stated in reply to you, no one is arguing those that stayed aren't.

I've also clearly stated that this rally was sold as a false narrative about too much migration. It was not advertised 'join us nazis'

capish?

 

[phantom13]

No I didn't.

I've clearly stated in reply to you, no one is arguing those that stayed aren't.

I've also clearly stated that this rally was sold as a false narrative about too much migration. It was not advertised 'join us nazis'

capish?

You really didnt, you have now, after alot more prompting than was neccesary.

So were clear not everyone who attended is a Nazi or Nazi Sympathiser but everyone who stayed is?

 

[RCAB]

I'm not sure how this thread can keep going... given Nazi's hijacked immigration as part of their main talking points.

 

[BloatedSherrin]

If you have to stand with neo Nazis to "tackle" immigration you're part of a racist movement full stop

 

[phantom13]

If you stand next to Nazis and cheer their Nazi speeches then yeh.

Thats what i saw yesyerday.

Im not a huge fan of labelling all people who do a thing something but at a point you kind of have to.

IMO Jan and Joe public dont really go to rallies for anything, so if theyve made the decision to venture into the city for the "March for Australia" MAYBE i can believe they didnt know it was a Neo Nazi backed event, MAYBE (its a stretch given how much media and social media noise there was about it).

If they stayed for the event and watched the speeches and such then yeh, what else can you call them?

Carringbush2010 this was my first post about this that you interacted with, see the bolded bit.

Seems we're in agreement then.

You said this....

No one is aruing this

What every single one of them? Or are you just looking the neo nazis from the media reporting, which are neo nazis, who everyone except neo nazis oppose

No not generally, but I'd imagine there are some real ignorant dumb ****ers out there with narrow views that attended that claim they aren't neo nazis and probably genuinely believe they hate neo nazis too, even though they have common values.

Agreed, reckon 99.99999999% of the public would also agree

Of course it's relevant, coz of their intent, are they intent on bashing people like neo nazis? Or have they been sucked in by the false rhetoric of neo nazis. 'Yeah I agree with some of what they say but still they're neo nazis and I don't like them'

That's highly likely among the dumbest.

This is a broad brushing, simplistic and narrow minded view.

Mod edit: please don't avoid the swear filter.

Then waffled on and on about nuance and what people believe they are.

So we are where we are now but dont try to claim that you never said it wasnt clear cut/nuanced whatever. Cause i clearly stated what my line was and you agreed, the disagreed.

Only youve made a simple "If you stayed then youre a Nazi or a Nazi Sympathiser" confusing.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It really was. Id argue you have to be wilfully ignorant not to have known this. The Nazis went to great lenghts to claim it.

No it wasn't, I don't recall the media saying this is a nazi rally beforehand, nazis went to great lengths to claim it, and there were others who claim not be nazis, claiming this was an anti over immigration rally.

In any event, it doesnt matter what they think or purport themselves to be, are you taking every racist doing the "im not racist BUT" at their word? Or do you analyse their actions and words?

No, just pointing out that there are racists who genuinely believe they aren't racists, they've been sold the false narrative that migration is the problem and were sold that this was what this march was about, more than certain this type of person exists.

You keep alluding I'm supporting these people, I'm not, I'm just pointing out that there is no simplistic 'you're one or the other there is no in between'

 

[phantom13]

No, just pointing out that there are racists who genuinely believe they aren't racists, they've been sold the false narrative that migration is the problem and were sold that this was what this march was about, more than certain this type of person exists.

You keep alluding I'm supporting these people, I'm not, I'm just pointing out that there is no simplistic 'you're one or the other there is no in between'

Except youve now admitted that there is... Unless youve changed your mind again.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You might not be a Nazi if you were at the rally and stuck around to hear what everyone had to say. But there is a very high chance that you're a little bit racist...

Finally!

However I disagree that those who stayed aren't sympathizers or nazis.

 

[BloatedSherrin]

One thing I also hate about these rally's is that afterwards I'm walking around looking at every white person as suspect. Not a good headspace live in.

 

[phantom13]

You keep alluding I'm supporting these people, I'm not, I'm just pointing out that there is no simplistic 'you're one or the other there is no in between'

Unless...

Finally!

However I disagree that those who stayed aren't sympathizers or nazis.

JFC mate...

 

[Carringbush2010]

Except youve now admitted that there is... Unless youve changed your mind again.

No, I've stated right from the start.

• There's likely racists at that rally who don't believe they're nazis or nazi sympathizers.
• There's likely racists at that rally who don't believe they're racists or nazis or nazi sympathizers
• There's likely openly racists who don't believe / claim they support nazis
• There's likely people who believe this wasn't a nazi rally before the rally, there was a clear message that this rally was about over migration, not about sympathizing with nazis.

Then there's the nazis themselves.

Stop alluding I've changed my mind or are supporting this.

As I've said right from the start, it's not a black and white, zero or 100, nothing in between argument, like so many give the impression it is. To argue that it is, is counterproductive.

That's my position. I've made myself clear.

 

[Cyg1992]

Ah the old chestnut of The lefties/wokesters/PC brigade/do gooders are creating the Nazis!!

Was waiting for that to come along.

Yeah sure, if Nazis never had any resistance at all, they'd just come to their senses and fizzle out and eventually disappear..

 

[phantom13]

No, I've stated right from the start.

• There's likely racists at that rally who don't believe they're nazis or nazi sympathizers.
• There's likely racists at that rally who don't believe they're racists or nazis or nazi sympathizers
• There's likely openly racists who don't believe / claim they support nazis
• There's likely people who believe this wasn't a nazi rally before the rally, there was a clear message that this rally was about over migration, not about sympathizing with nazis.

Then there's the nazis themselves.

Stop alluding I've changed my mind or are supporting this.

As I've said right from the start, it's not a black and white, zero or 100, nothing in between argument, like so many give the impression it is. To argue that it is, is counterproductive.

That's my position. I've made myself clear.

You mean when i said that and then you agreed, disagreed then waffled on about nuance.

Nobody but you seems to give a rats ass about what someone "thinks" they are, thats not a point I nor anyone else has ever raised.

Youre now saying its not black and white except.

Finally!

However I disagree that those who stayed aren't sympathizers or nazis.

When it is.

Youre a ****ing mess mate.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You mean when i said that and then you agreed, disagreed then waffled on about nuance.

Nobody but you seems to give a rats ass about what someone "thinks" they are, thats not a point I nor anyone else has ever raised.

Youre now saying its not black and white except.


When it is.

Youre a ****ing mess mate.

If you can't comprehend my position and somehow think there's hypocrisy in there (which is a laugh) then I can't help you.

I'll end our conversation with you here.

 

[Beerfish]

I'll end our conversation with you here.

Who else is with you?

 

[phantom13]

If you can't comprehend my position and somehow think there's hypocrisy in there (which is a laugh) then I can't help you.

I'll end our conversation with you here.

I can comprehend it you just keep changing it.

Even now youve stated a black and white position.

However I disagree that those who stayed aren't sympathizers or nazis.

Then said its not clear cut and all or nothing

As I've said right from the start, it's not a black and white, zero or 100, nothing in between argument, like so many give the impression it is. To argue that it is, is counterproductive.

If it was just me that had no ****ing clue what youre saying id wear that perhaps its a me thing, but youve got a few people replying to you in a similar vein here my man.

Anyway, carry on. I dont really care one way or the other if you agree or not, i just like to know (which i still dont)