Australia's white elephant

[Pie eyed]

As mentioned in a previous post the nations debt under the current government looks set to go over the 1 trillion mark imminently. This isn't simply just a matter of labor did this or liberals are doing that but its becoming a matter of national importance. We're not lucky enough this time to have a mining sector deliver us royalties (another debate in itself) and have seemingly little direction on actually changing it. This is a bit of a dig at the liberals but the same could be applied to labor as I'm sure its done the same in its time: they seem to be going after culling programs including welfare, energy that when are all added up seemingly are quoted at saving 10-100 million at best. While these savings are required, these are often essential programs and now when you break it down cutting several of these programs will be barely a trickle in the motion of making savings. This is an issue of governance and really needs to be addressed.

Thought this was a thread about Amanda Vanstone.............

 

[Pie eyed]

I want to know where the Libs are spending money? Services have been cut left right, and centre, government services privatised, and yet they're spending more than the ALP did in government. Where the hell is it all going?

Nest feathering and lube.

 

[Number37]

IIRC the repeal of the Carbo Tax while keeping certain initiatives (18k tax free threshold etc) has been majorly costly. GST is another thing that is always touted to go up but is probably political poison if not done in the first year.

After rebates etc the tax free threshold was effectively 18k long before the Carbon Tax legislation. i.e. hasn't cost the govt a cent.

 

[The Edukator]

What was the name of that program that allowed people to study more vocational subjects at the govt exp with little to no chance of ever paying it back? Didn't the cost of it go up from $200m to $2b or similar?

 

[hamohawk1]

What was the name of that program that allowed people to study more vocational subjects at the govt exp with little to no chance of ever paying it back? Didn't the cost of it go up from $200m to $2b or similar?

Is it scary to think now that 2b is pretty minimal to the savings that are required?

 

[hamohawk1]

Nest feathering and lube.

haha, on a serious note where have they spent more than labor?

 

[The Edukator]

Is it scary to think now that 2b is pretty minimal to the savings that are required?

Can thank Julia Gillard for that.

It is not however scary if you ask one of these students to read some tea leaves, as they have now been taught to do so.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Key issue of privatisation. Short term profit but you end up selling your country majorly short.

Leading up to one of the elections, Sharman Stone who was my local member, walked into my post office to drop off some election information and to have a chat. She asked if I had any concerns. I told her that I was concerned about the sell off of Telstra, she said to me that just because we're the government, it doesn't mean we'd run it better than other people. I told her I realised that, I'd just spent 5 years prior, living and working in Canberra alongside federal public servants and saw how wasteful things were.

The point I wanted to make to her was that, yes, there may be a short spike with the money from the sale but long term, you were forgoing any profit FOREVER. It would be far from the most efficiently run organisation, but it was OURS, the profits were OURS and they trained many apprentices along the way.

There are threads on these boards about the sale of Telstra, railing against them having to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century and the best thing to do was to break it up and sell it off. imo, that's as short sighted as the government wanting the quick hit from the money of the sale.

It's no different to state governments selling off all of their public utilities. You get that initial financial hit from the sale, but once that's been pissed up against the wall, how do you replace the revenue year on year that's now lost forever? Where do all of the profits for these now mainly foreign owed utilities end up?

Who trains all of our future tradespeople? * it, we'll just import them all from other countries and drain those countries of much needed skills, particularly so for poor and developing countries. * the youth of Australia, they can pour drinks and do laundry for all of the imported tradies / professionals.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I bought my girlfriend an elephant for her living room. When she started to tank me profusely I said 'don't mention it"

 

[hamohawk1]

If I'm correct the NZ government now run a highly profitable world class airline now in 'Air New Zealand'

 

[VineyIsLORD]

If I'm correct the NZ government now run a highly profitable world class airline now in 'Air New Zealand'

Has won many awards and did not have the gigantic marketing potential of Qantas either.

To think the Australian people could own jetstar and Qantas and Telstra and SEC and....

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Has won many awards and did not have the gigantic marketing potential of Qantas either.

To think the Australian people could own jetstar and Qantas and Telstra and SEC and....

.... gas and water. Australia Post is another in the gun for privatisation, ports being looked at / considered.

How the * do these halfwits think they're going to generate enough revenue outside of raising the GST?

I paid $40k+ in tax the last year, just tap me for some more parasites.

One thing I did receive once I'd submitted my return this year, was a thank you from the feds () and a page that had a detailed breakdown of where all of my tax would be used for the year, different areas with amounts/percentages. It was interesting reading, a bit of an eye opener. Has anyone else received anything like this or is it standard fare now?

 

[Power Raid]

Let's take debt as an example. Not long ago, these boards, and the country in general was flooded with people, most of them presumably about as well qualified in economics as I am, parroting the debt, and deficit emergency mantra, assuring all, and sundry that Australia was the next Greece. The budget deficit has increased eightfold since September 2013. Where are these people now?

I was one and I'm still here with the same view.

The only difference is I'm not silly enough to be holding the types of instruments or income that will be effected as we try and fix our huge problem.

I feel for the next generation though. But f'em right? That's essentially what our electorate has voted and those who blocked spending cuts. All we have managed to do is kick the can down the road.

 

[Power Raid]

There doesn't appear to be a lot of political will to do anything about it.

Cutting spending actually causes more harm than good (particularly on those with the lowest level of capacity to pay the extra required for such things in health for example).

The current government seems so reticent on not increasing taxes (unless it is the GST) and the tax mix itself is fairly ineffectual (see the comments regarding the Petroleum Resources Rent Tax), so it doesn't deliver neither enough revenue or returne enough into the economy for the greater good.

We need to cut our waste especially our federal government departments that duplicate our state departments like (ndis and leave it to dsc), health, education etc.

Why duplicate?

We also need to reform our taxes to have a better blend of income, consumption and wealth taxes.

Failing to tax wealth is our biggest and obvious flaw which has bigger ramifications than just lost tax collection. It also means higher rents and thus lower jobs and wealth creation.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

We need to cut our waste especially our federal government departments that duplicate our state departments like (ndis and leave it to dsc), health, education etc.

Why duplicate?

We also need to reform our taxes to have a better blend of income, consumption and wealth taxes.

Failing to tax wealth is our biggest and obvious flaw which has bigger ramifications than just lost tax collection. It also means higher rents and thus lower jobs and wealth creation.

Spot. On.

We have sold off industries and assets we shouldn't have. And we have got our tax system incredibly backwards for a nation with an ageing population.

Our businesses and workforce are still very good though! As is our education system and health system!

We just need to figure out the tax side of things and rationalise a few state functions into a federal system. And once certain leases finish we should probably look at taking ownership again.

I mean the fact we cant build a train to Melbourne airport due to a commercial contract is a perfect example of the insanity we have seen in the last 20 years.

 

[Power Raid]

Spot. On.

We have sold off industries and assets we shouldn't have. And we have got our tax system incredibly backwards for a nation with an ageing population.

Our businesses and workforce are still very good though! As is our education system and health system!

We just need to figure out the tax side of things and rationalise a few state functions into a federal system. And once certain leases finish we should probably look at taking ownership again.

I mean the fact we cant build a train to Melbourne airport due to a commercial contract is a perfect example of the insanity we have seen in the last 20 years.

Agree. It can't help but differ on state ownership and would prefer state systems over federal.

Also would love to ban our politicians from the media. Policy should be issued in a black and white prospectus.

Politics should be about policy and not people. This noise of media is distracting and the reason why we are heading toward a future like the US. This is in part the reason why we find ourselves in so much debt.

 

[Number37]

Agree. It can't help but differ on state ownership and would prefer state systems over federal.

Also would love to ban our politicians from the media. Policy should be issued in a black and white prospectus.

Politics should be about policy and not people. This noise of media is distracting and the reason why we are heading toward a future like the US. This is in part the reason why we find ourselves in so much debt.

Have you not noticed what politicians get up to when they get to hide from the media?

 

[hamohawk1]

I get social welfare is an easy target too but surely there are bigger fish to fry. Lets go after the big corporations, lets get all donations to every political party be known.

 

[Pie eyed]

I get social welfare is an easy target too but surely there are bigger fish to fry. Lets go after the big corporations, lets get all donations to every political party be known.

Royal Commission into the Liberal Parties income.

I t really makes me laugh that they, the inbred Liberals, make an issue of money from Unions being donated to the Labour Party...it's almost like they are mentally deficient...you would think the idiots did not know that Labour is the political arm of the Union movement, just as the Liberal party is the political arm of the Business Sector and Mainstream religions.

 

[Power Raid]

Have you not noticed what politicians get up to when they get to hide from the media?

normal people are not attracted to the job due to the media attention, thus we end up with egotistical megalomaniacs.

take away the media and we will attract better applicants and then add a proper ethics council to review politicians (to replace the media's witch hunts).

 

[medusala]

The point I wanted to make to her was that, yes, there may be a short spike with the money from the sale but long term, you were forgoing any profit FOREVER. It would be far from the most efficiently run organisation, but it was OURS, the profits were OURS and they trained many apprentices along the way.

How were those profits from the state banks, ANL etc?

 

[Scotland]

Has won many awards and did not have the gigantic marketing potential of Qantas either.

To think the Australian people could own jetstar and Qantas and Telstra and SEC and....

QANTAS was privatised by Keating wasn't it?

 

[Scotland]

We spend roughly the same on defence as we do on education.

Maybe that's a sign we need to spend more on education but that just doesn't compute with me.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

QANTAS was privatised by Keating wasn't it?

Initial sale was I think. Same with CBA and some of Telstra from memory.

You could argue CBA made sense, though looking at Australia's world record leading fees for financial services I'd argue we could use a large state bank as an alternative to keep fees lower.

Telstra and Qantas should never have been sold.

Howard was king of the sell offs though. Held a firesale.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

How were those profits from the state banks, ANL etc?

What competition did gas, water, electricity and Telecom have?

I never mentioned banks, I was talking about public utilities and their profits and the training they provided.