Bluemour Discussion Thread III

[thylacine60]

Graham is a really interesting one. We're screaming out for midfield depth, if you look up "midfield depth" in the dictionary, there's a picture of Nick. And yet he still can't cement his spot...

Ball in hand, with a little time and space, he can be devastating to the opposition. Also tackles well. But just not enough strings to his bow. He seems super skilled but one of those "almost" players...

Would love to see him get a real good run at it. The rest would be up to him I suppose...

mmmm.......nup......

 

[passmark]

Graham ain't part of the future.

 

[Kramer1]

No way, don't rate him at all.

He's no better than some of the guys we already have that will be flung soon enough.

Like who?

 

[TheCoach16]

mmmm.......nup......

First of all, are the dots (....) an homage to me?...

Secondly, he's elite by foot. But he seems rushed and panicked under pressure. Devastating might be strong, but its accurate if he's given time and space...

Take some time to rethink if you like...

By the way, if you look at some of my earlier posts, you'll see I was Very critical of him, but he's just about won me over...

 

[harrisendblue]

Fair enough.

Now, what about the Tuohy for Marchbank trade ?

Right call or wrong? And no qualifiers about him getting over his injuries.

Is that trade one that should have been done?

absolutely yes. looks like a genuine kpd which we need badly especially with poor old rowey who was i like his honesty & commitment has well known limitations. a crucial piece of the puzzle.

 

[Blue__Balls]

First of all, are the dots (....) an homage to me?...

Secondly, he's elite by foot. But he seems rushed and panicked under pressure. Devastating might be strong, but its accurate if he's given time and space...

Take some time to rethink if you like...

By the way, if you look at some of my earlier posts, you'll see I was Very critical of him, but he's just about won me over...

Coach, come on. Give any AFL player "time and space" without any pressure and they'll be an elite kick. Same goes for state level players too. A genuine "elite" kick needs to be able to hurt the opposition despite pressure.

Graham is a neat footballer, who doesn't do anything exceptionally. He's the definition of depth - play him all year in the VFL, and if a Gibbs, Murphy, Curnow or Wright go down injured he can come in and play a role for the team.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

1. How do you define or constitute what a "depth" player is ??

2. How many "depth" players should you have on a playing list ??

3. Who are the players at Carlton considered to be "depth" ??

I think 'depth player' has 2 meanings.
1. The first meaning is a player who is not in the best 22 who can come in and do a job for the team when a best 22 player is injured, suspended, so on.
The second meaning is a player in our best 22 who would not be in any other team's. 'Would at best be a depth player at another club'.
2. Player's not in the best 22 might all be depth players if using the primary meaning. I say might because I think there are other categories such as 'project players'.
Ideally no club wants players in its best 22 that would at best be a depth player at other clubs. GWS is the club that has players outside its best 22 that would be best 22 at our club and other clubs. Bringing GWS' list size and salary cap into line with other clubs will hopefully curtail this advantage ...
3. Those not getting regular games in best 22 but can do a job when called on: Graham, Everitt, Gorringe and Buckley. On this meaning, Jacksch, DVR, Jones, Tutt and Whiley are on shaky ground.
The interesting one is players in our best 22 who would not be best 22 at other clubs ... Boekhorst, White, Rowe, Kerridge, Armfield, Thomas. (If Everitt is in our best 22, then he is in this group as he would not be in the best 22 at other clubs.)
So our trading and drafting might be measured in the short term on how many of our 'bottom 6' gets pushed out of our best 22. If Tuohy leaving means we need another 'depth' player to fill in then that is not a good sign.

 

[thylacine60]

Mods, can we keep duplicates of all posts regarding depth in the appropriate depth thread please?

 

[LanceRomance]

Mods, can we keep duplicates of all posts regarding depth in the appropriate depth thread please?

the bluemour discussion forum has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

Not gouda

 

[mickelboy182]

Interesting to see the change in opinion on Graham, another thing Mick was absolutely hammered over... Shows you how much people need a scapegoat for every single thing that doesn't go to plan.

 

[passmark]

Interesting to see the change in opinion on Graham, another thing Mick was absolutely hammered over... Shows you how much people need a scapegoat for every single thing that doesn't go to plan.

Ah well, I'll let Mick off for Graham then.

Besides there's 50 other reasons to hate Matlhouse anyway.

 

[JustaBattler]

Interesting to see the change in opinion on Graham, another thing Mick was absolutely hammered over... Shows you how much people need a scapegoat for every single thing that doesn't go to plan.

Not everyone has 'changed' their opinion on Graham - he has had his detractors who weren't issued rose coloured glasses from eth get go. Fact is - to date he has shown that he is too slow for AFL - simple as that. Sklow in thinking and slow in execution of basic skills. Nice bloke I'm sure. In teh context of a midfield that doesn't bat too deep - he has been given opportunity to cement a place - he hasn't.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Interesting to see the change in opinion on Graham, another thing Mick was absolutely hammered over... Shows you how much people need a scapegoat for every single thing that doesn't go to plan.

I was one of those calling for Nick to be given his chance. He deserved it given the form he showed in the VFL, and given the players being played ahead of him.

How does that preclude me from saying now, based on exposed AFL form, that he hasn't shown enough to keep a spot in the best 22? He's consistently OK, and as such I have no problem with him being first or second cab off the rank of we need to cover for an injury to a starting midfielder.

 

[mickelboy182]

I was one of those calling for Nick to be given his chance. He deserved it given the form he showed in the VFL, and given the players being played ahead of him.

How does that preclude me from saying now, based on exposed AFL form, that he hasn't shown enough to keep a spot in the best 22? He's consistently OK, and as such I have no problem with him being first or second cab off the rank of we need to cover for an injury to a starting midfielder.

Sorry for calling you out specifically... Oh wait, I didn't do that?

I'm just having a giggle at all those who were absolutely adamant that Mick had Graham all wrong. Not a Mick defender or anything, just commenting on how easily people are willing to distribute blame where it best suits them.

 

[passmark]

Sorry for calling you out specifically... Oh wait, I didn't do that?

I'm just having a giggle at all those who were absolutely adamant that Mick had Graham all wrong. Not a Mick defender or anything, just commenting on how easily people are willing to distribute blame where it best suits them.

....not something you'd ever do.

 

[LanceRomance]

What does Nicky G have to do with rumours....

 

[JustaBattler]

What does Nicky G have to do with rumours....

Romour going around was that he coudl play and was a shoe in for best 22.

 

[LanceRomance]

Romour going around was that he coudl play and was a shoe in for best 22.

If he was he would have played more than 12 games this year.

 

[JustaBattler]

If he was he would have played more than 12 games this year.

Blokes I had high 'hopes' for included NickG/Buckley/Sheehan - these three if they had come on by now would have been gold - and for one reason or another covered the absolute disgrace of Malthouse's Jones/Tutt/Boekhurst/Jacksh/Whiley/Thomas selections. Absolute DISGRACE. FMD- pick#7 on Jacksh and Whiley plodders - pick#7!!!

 

[GordonBlue]

Blokes I had high 'hopes' for included NickG/Buckley/Sheehan - these three if they had come on by now would have been gold - and for one reason or another covered the absolute disgrace of Malthouse's Jones/Tutt/Boekhurst/Jacksh/Whiley/Thomas selections. Absolute DISGRACE. FMD- pick#7 on Jacksh and Whiley plodders - pick#7!!!

With pick 7 we would have picked Marchbank had he been available. He was not. GWS picked Ahern. So two years later we have Marchbank and we also have Jaksch, Whiley and Boekhurst. So whilst in isolation it was bad trade, in the end we suddenly have not missed out of anything. I still have high hopes for Jaksch (big big pre-season for him is a must) and Boekhurst.

Edit: Ahern just got traded to North for a pack of chips

 

[mickelboy182]

....not something you'd ever do.

Not really claiming that I haven't done it in the past, I most certainly would have. Really just observing the phenomenon.

 

[Shambolic]

Coach, come on. Give any AFL player "time and space" without any pressure and they'll be an elite kick. Same goes for state level players too. A genuine "elite" kick needs to be able to hurt the opposition despite pressure.

Graham is a neat footballer, who doesn't do anything exceptionally. He's the definition of depth - play him all year in the VFL, and if a Gibbs, Murphy, Curnow or Wright go down injured he can come in and play a role for the team.

He missed a lot of opportunities to make his mark in 2016.... 2 goals 9 from memory. IF he'd have managed a few games with 2 goals zip or managed 10 for the year he'd have been noticed.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Sorry for calling you out specifically... Oh wait, I didn't do that?

I'm just having a giggle at all those who were absolutely adamant that Mick had Graham all wrong. Not a Mick defender or anything, just commenting on how easily people are willing to distribute blame where it best suits them.

Never said you did - just using myself as an example. Being frustrated that Mick didn't give Graham a decent shot is irrelevant to a later assessment of Graham's performances at AFL level.

 

[JustaBattler]

With pick 7 we would have picked Marchbank had he been available. He was not. GWS picked Ahern. So two years later we have Marchbank and we also have Jaksch, Whiley and Boekhurst. So whilst in isolation it was bad trade, in the end we suddenly have not missed out of anything. I still have high hopes for Jaksch (big big pre-season for him is a must) and Boekhurst.

Edit: Ahern just got traded to North for a pack of chips

It is what other trades could have been done for pick #7 we the regime we have in place now - that is the opportunity cost- but yeah looking back is ...a waste of time.

still it grinds on me because the Club was run by nuff nuffs for so long.

 

[thylacine60]

Interesting to see the change in opinion on Graham, another thing Mick was absolutely hammered over... Shows you how much people need a scapegoat for every single thing that doesn't go to plan.

I started seriously bullish on nicky g but have waned over time - even forgave him for the piece of rubbish that was mentoring him - wasn't the young man's fault - his numbers haven't transferred to the big game yet - clock is ticking and that in itself can work against him - or not