Bluemour Discussion Thread IX

[BJuddy]

I don't know what paying TPP has to do with it. Henderson, Bell, Yarran were all already out the door so that would've freed up plenty of money which it obviously did because we took salary cap dumps.
The point is people were saying North were delusional for not bottoming out and trying to top up because of the state of their list just 5 months ago. Now they are a couple of good decisions or a little bit of luck away from pushing back up the ladder again.

Who knows maybe we should've been trying to attract good best 22 players rather than unproven kids.
The theory behind that path is pretty simple. People are of the belief that players develop when in a winning environment. Hence you don't need 15 first rounders because you can develop players taken with latter picks when you are in a successful side. When you are uncompetitive they don't develop into what they should be.
The theory is maybe in two years McKay, Pickett and Cuningham all become busts because they were in a poor environment for development. They believe that if a Geelong or Sydney ect took them they would of all became B graders simplify because of being part of a winning successful environment.

I have actually agreed with most of the clubs decisions but I think we may have gone too far down the youth path and now with this idea that we won't overpay anyone we are incapable of attracting good AFL level players to the club. We really don't have any other options other than play a very long patience game and the hard part is we still have no idea if we are just another Melbourne pre Roos yet.

North Melbourne suck and their list management sucks and they will be found out sooner rather than later.
Much rather our position rather than theirs.

Wonder who is next that they will offer $1.5mil a season to

 

[ODNBlue]

I don't know what paying TPP has to do with it. Henderson, Bell, Yarran were all already out the door so that would've freed up plenty of money which it obviously did because we took salary cap dumps.
The point is people were saying North were delusional for not bottoming out and trying to top up because of the state of their list just 5 months ago. Now they are a couple of good decisions or a little bit of luck away from pushing back up the ladder again.

Are they though? Perhaps this year is just their dead cat bounce.

 

[thylacine60]

Well first, you need to find a pig. Then attach some wings onto it. Find a catapult and shoot that baby up as high as you can. Then click your red sparkly shoes together three times.


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I saw that thing last night - thought it was mars at first - pig won't be that close to earth again until the afl quits changing rules

 

[Stamos]

Are they though? Perhaps this year is just their dead cat bounce.

Not a dead cat bounce, just an unbelievable run with injuries. Something like 26 players used through the first half of the year.

 

[Arr0w]

Not a dead cat bounce, just an unbelievable run with injuries. Something like 26 players used through the first half of the year.

Bingo

 

[CJMB]

Bingo

Meanwhile Cripps & Samo are our only 2 to have played every game and Samo is the current leader of our 'consecutive games played' list...

 

[MitchRobinson12]

Meanwhile Cripps & Samo are our only 2 to have played every game and Samo is the current leader of our 'consecutive games played' list...

Considering Samo has done a pre-season yet thats impressive. Or did he do the most recent one?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

North Melbourne suck and their list management sucks and they will be found out sooner rather than later.
Much rather our position rather than theirs.

Wonder who is next that they will offer $1.5mil a season to

I would too it all depends on what they can do with their first rounder.
Gaff is my bet.

Are they though? Perhaps this year is just their dead cat bounce.

its very possible but as above, if they can use their first rounder well this season they may well have already rebuilt the majority of their midfield and they have a potentially very good young ruck.

In tradition with the type of scenario's we talk about on here if I was a North supporter I'd be saying
Pick ~10 for Setterfield
Future second for Bolton
Gaff FA
Kelly next year
Flag

After seeing what Richmond achieved after getting things right from a similar position I'm nowhere near ready to write them off.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I would too it all depends on what they can do with their first rounder.
Gaff is my bet.

its very possible but as above, if they can use their first rounder well this season they may well have already rebuilt the majority of their midfield and they have a potentially very good young ruck.

In tradition with the type of scenario's we talk about on here if I was a North supporter I'd be saying
Pick ~10 for Setterfield
Future second for Bolton
Gaff FA
Kelly next year
Flag

After seeing what Richmond achieved after getting things right from a similar position I'm nowhere near ready to write them off.

Look at their mature players then compare them to ours who were on the list at the beginning of the rebuild. They didn’t have to do what we did because players like Zeibell Higgins cunnington Gawn Thompson Tarrant etc. they had many young guys with multiple years development in the vfl already, ready to go as they waited for Harvey, Petrie etc to be moved on. Plus their midfield hardly needed rebuilding. They’ve added one to two players to it in a very cheap ahern and Anderson. Situations are worlds apart.

Plus this year they’ve had a Richmond like run with injuries.

 

[katmanblue]

Surely you're kidding.

An ageing list with zero young talent (except Cripps and Docherty) and paying full TPP.

If there was another alternative please explain it to me.

Its funny how many people criticise the actions taken in a very difficult situation without providing an alternative. Gets awfully quite when you ask them for alternative solutions.

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[Gethelred]

I would too it all depends on what they can do with their first rounder.
Gaff is my bet.

its very possible but as above, if they can use their first rounder well this season they may well have already rebuilt the majority of their midfield and they have a potentially very good young ruck.

In tradition with the type of scenario's we talk about on here if I was a North supporter I'd be saying
Pick ~10 for Setterfield
Future second for Bolton
Gaff FA
Kelly next year
Flag

After seeing what Richmond achieved after getting things right from a similar position I'm nowhere near ready to write them off.

Goldstein, Higgins, Cunnington, Waite, Thompson.

Of those five players, only one (Goldstein) has as ready replacement on their list (Preuss). Those five players have been the cornerstones of their resurgence this season, and would be ranking fairly well in their BNF. Waite surely doesn't have long left, Goldstein's on his last legs, Cunnington is a gun (were our midfield not slow enough, I'd suggest chasing him as hard as we could) but he's borne out literal years of punishment as a lone hand in their midfield, and Higgins was in brownlow medal winning form at the start of the year but has tapered off as the year's progressed, was injury prone as at the doggies, and is 30 years of age, where Thompson a season ago was genuinely done as a force at AFL level. Sure, they all could continue having this miraculous run with injuries (them and Richmond are the clubs I'd be seeking to emulate with regards to their recovery and medical departments, as they too have had such a run with injuries to be envied) but eventually the ball will hit the ground.

Their side is just as vulnerable as we are to injuries, as if they suffered a crisis on the level of ours they would similarly have plumbed the depths of the AFL this year. Without those players, this season for them runs in a very different way, and when/should they retire (there's quite a bit of footy left in Cunnington, but Goldstein's winding up, Higgins doesn't have many seasons like this in him, Waite will be 36 next year, and Thompson's an injury away already) they will return back to the pack. I'd also argue that the rest of the competition knows this as well, as no players except for fringe ones looking for ones footy are going there. They don't want to be left holding the fort (ala the way Gibbs has this year) as the sole player of import when injuries and retirements strike, and eventually they will.

In addition, we've seen over the past two years what happens when teams think you'll be an easy beat. They don't put time into preparing specific plans to beat you, they rely on plan A and, should you come at them properly and seize the initiative and/or the lead, they then have to change their plans to adapt to us on the fly, or they double down and give their side a rocket on the basis that their plan can work anyway. We pinched wins in 2016 and 2017 exactly this way. North were seen heading into this season as a dubious prospect and a potential wooden spooner; how many sides do you think put in real time into developing counters to their game?

Tales of their demise were exaggerated, I do agree, but your optimism as to their list is, as far as I'm concerned, if not unfounded at least a little excessive.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Goldstein, Higgins, Cunnington, Waite, Thompson.

Of those five players, only one (Goldstein) has as ready replacement on their list (Preuss). Those five players have been the cornerstones of their resurgence this season, and would be ranking fairly well in their BNF. Waite surely doesn't have long left, Goldstein's on his last legs, Cunnington is a gun (were our midfield not slow enough, I'd suggest chasing him as hard as we could) but he's borne out literal years of punishment as a lone hand in their midfield, and Higgins was in brownlow medal winning form at the start of the year but has tapered off as the year's progressed, was injury prone as at the doggies, and is 30 years of age, where Thompson a season ago was genuinely done as a force at AFL level. Sure, they all could continue having this miraculous run with injuries (them and Richmond are the clubs I'd be seeking to emulate with regards to their recovery and medical departments, as they too have had such a run with injuries to be envied) but eventually the ball will hit the ground.

Their side is just as vulnerable as we are to injuries, as if they suffered a crisis on the level of ours they would similarly have plumbed the depths of the AFL this year. Without those players, this season for them runs in a very different way, and when/should they retire (there's quite a bit of footy left in Cunnington, but Goldstein's winding up, Higgins doesn't have many seasons like this in him, Waite will be 36 next year, and Thompson's an injury away already) they will return back to the pack. I'd also argue that the rest of the competition knows this as well, as no players except for fringe ones looking for ones footy are going there. They don't want to be left holding the fort (ala the way Gibbs has this year) as the sole player of import when injuries and retirements strike, and eventually they will.

In addition, we've seen over the past two years what happens when teams think you'll be an easy beat. They don't put time into preparing specific plans to beat you, they rely on plan A and, should you come at them properly and seize the initiative and/or the lead, they then have to change their plans to adapt to us on the fly, or they double down and give their side a rocket on the basis that their plan can work anyway. We pinched wins in 2016 and 2017 exactly this way. North were seen heading into this season as a dubious prospect and a potential wooden spooner; how many sides do you think put in real time into developing counters to their game?

Tales of their demise were exaggerated, I do agree, but your optimism as to their list is, as far as I'm concerned, if not unfounded at least a little excessive.

I really have no idea what way they will go but I've heard Geelong need to bottom out rebuild, they didn't and are fine, I remember Sydney needed to bottom out and rebuild back when they missed finals, they didn't, Hawthorn are now trying not to as are North. All of those sides lists were in similar if not worse positions than Norths IMO.
Sydney played in a Grand Final and managed to play in a flag just six years later with 16 new players in the side having only dropped out of finals once.
I think we spend way too much time concentrating on high picks

 

[Blueboys7]

I would too it all depends on what they can do with their first rounder.
Gaff is my bet.

its very possible but as above, if they can use their first rounder well this season they may well have already rebuilt the majority of their midfield and they have a potentially very good young ruck.

In tradition with the type of scenario's we talk about on here if I was a North supporter I'd be saying
Pick ~10 for Setterfield
Future second for Bolton
Gaff FA
Kelly next year
Flag

After seeing what Richmond achieved after getting things right from a similar position I'm nowhere near ready to write them off.

No one gives a **** about North.

This is the Carlton board.

 

[Arr0w]

I really have no idea what way they will go but I've heard Geelong need to bottom out rebuild, they didn't and are fine, I remember Sydney needed to bottom out and rebuild back when they missed finals, they didn't, Hawthorn are now trying not to as are North. All of those sides lists were in similar if not worse positions than Norths IMO.
Sydney played in a Grand Final and managed to play in a flag just six years later with 16 new players in the side having only dropped out of finals once.
I think we spend way too much time concentrating on high picks

Once you are there, constant finalist, that's when the hard work begins

 

[Gethelred]

No one gives a **** about North.

This is the Carlton board.

I do not see what point is served by shutting down discussion.

 

[bluebunz]

Just read that Choco Williams has announced he is stepping down from his current role.

Any chance of taking over from where Neil Craig left off in a mentoring role for Bolts?

 

[KohPhi]

How exactly would this work KohPhi ? I would really love to see Shiel and Kelly in Navy Blue

Well we will need to sweeten the deal, apparently GWS have asked for Adelaide's 2nd as well but we need that to get Brodie and Scrimshaw from GC.
They are contracted for TWO more years though which means our more preferred "Casboult and a 4th" won't cut it.

Bloody Gold Coast!!...

 

[Blueboys7]

I do not see what point is served by shutting down discussion.

I don't see the point in discussing North Melbourne's list management in the Bluemour thread but here we are.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Just read that Choco Williams has announced he is stepping down from his current role.

Any chance of taking over from where Neil Craig left off in a mentoring role for Bolts?

With mentors like Choco...

 

[katmanblue]

Just read that Choco Williams has announced he is stepping down from his current role.

Any chance of taking over from where Neil Craig left off in a mentoring role for Bolts?

Bit of a loose canon isnt he though?

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[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

No one gives a **** about North.

This is the Carlton board.

Sorry I got side tracked. I was just making comparisons on how other clubs have successfully rebuilt.

 

[Gethelred]

I don't see the point in discussing North Melbourne's list management in the Bluemour thread but here we are.

Then suggest we move the conversation elsewhere.

If you're not interested in a conversation, that is no reason to tell people not to have it.

 

[Aphrodite]

Let's keep this Carlton related thanks all.

 

[El Topo]

Just read that Choco Williams has announced he is stepping down from his current role.

Any chance of taking over from where Neil Craig left off in a mentoring role for Bolts?

W A N T. MLG needs to make him an offer he can't refuse.

 

[Blues90]

Goldstein, Higgins, Cunnington, Waite, Thompson.

Of those five players, only one (Goldstein) has as ready replacement on their list (Preuss). Those five players have been the cornerstones of their resurgence this season, and would be ranking fairly well in their BNF. Waite surely doesn't have long left, Goldstein's on his last legs, Cunnington is a gun (were our midfield not slow enough, I'd suggest chasing him as hard as we could) but he's borne out literal years of punishment as a lone hand in their midfield, and Higgins was in brownlow medal winning form at the start of the year but has tapered off as the year's progressed, was injury prone as at the doggies, and is 30 years of age, where Thompson a season ago was genuinely done as a force at AFL level. Sure, they all could continue having this miraculous run with injuries (them and Richmond are the clubs I'd be seeking to emulate with regards to their recovery and medical departments, as they too have had such a run with injuries to be envied) but eventually the ball will hit the ground.

Their side is just as vulnerable as we are to injuries, as if they suffered a crisis on the level of ours they would similarly have plumbed the depths of the AFL this year. Without those players, this season for them runs in a very different way, and when/should they retire (there's quite a bit of footy left in Cunnington, but Goldstein's winding up, Higgins doesn't have many seasons like this in him, Waite will be 36 next year, and Thompson's an injury away already) they will return back to the pack. I'd also argue that the rest of the competition knows this as well, as no players except for fringe ones looking for ones footy are going there. They don't want to be left holding the fort (ala the way Gibbs has this year) as the sole player of import when injuries and retirements strike, and eventually they will.

In addition, we've seen over the past two years what happens when teams think you'll be an easy beat. They don't put time into preparing specific plans to beat you, they rely on plan A and, should you come at them properly and seize the initiative and/or the lead, they then have to change their plans to adapt to us on the fly, or they double down and give their side a rocket on the basis that their plan can work anyway. We pinched wins in 2016 and 2017 exactly this way. North were seen heading into this season as a dubious prospect and a potential wooden spooner; how many sides do you think put in real time into developing counters to their game?

Tales of their demise were exaggerated, I do agree, but your optimism as to their list is, as far as I'm concerned, if not unfounded at least a little excessive.

That is a very silly comment are you forgetting how good ahern is?

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