Blues Quick Small Fwds...

[Syphoncom]

Feel sorry for all the Carlton guys around ~24. They'll be too old to enjoy a good finals series

 

[gibbanator]

1 key forward lol You dont have one at the moment.

Which makes us level with you.

Our small forwards play well in big games yours dont.

Our midfield is classier than yours.

Advantage Carlton

 

[buzzbuzz]

Which makes us level with you.

Our small forwards play well in big games yours dont.

Our midfield is classier than yours.

Advantage Carlton

Uh, your current list has never played in a big game.

 

[robertg22]

Which makes us level with you.

Our small forwards play well in big games yours dont.

Our midfield is classier than yours.

Advantage Carlton

What big games have you played recently? Surely you're not referring to the final vs Brisbane, am guessing that is wiped from Carlton supporters' memories through post-traumatic stress.

And I would like to remind that Cloke, Anthony, Dawes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> O'Failderson.

 

[Invigoration]

Which makes us level with you.

Our small forwards play well in big games yours dont.

Our midfield is classier than yours.

Advantage Carlton

Carlton don't play in big games, how would you know how the smalls perform?

Carlton can't kick over 4 goals and get beaten by Essendon by 6 goals

Game - Collingwood.

 

[Ron]

Uh, your current list has never played in a big game.

Ahh you forget round one when they play Carlton. According to them that is a big game, finals like they tell me.

 

[Bloben]

Carlton could be in a bit of trouble actually.

They don't have any good KP forwards.

KP Forwards take longer to develop.

The next few drafts are heavily compromised.

The GC and GWS will be looking to trade for experienced KP players and will have a lot more trading power.

It could be many years before Carlton are able to develop a good key forward or two.

Meanwhile the Pies have a much more diverse list of youngsters coming through, and after replacing our more experienced players will be in the perfect position for an extended premiership window with the new clubs delaying the second tier teams being able to take the next step

 

[gibbanator]

Carlton v Geelong April 26 2010 was a pretty big game against powerful side.

 

[Invigoration]

Carlton v Geelong April 26 2010 was a pretty big game against powerful side.

No it wasn't, but if we are citing H&A games as big games, well then;

Leon Davis - All Australian 2009


Leigh Brown in big game finals last year - 2 goals
Yarran, Betts and Garlett in big games finals - 2 goals between the 3 of them.

Leigh Brown > Gang of 3

 

[robertg22]

No it wasn't

Blues fans - it's only worth 4 premiership points! However, given how horrible they've been over the last few years, those have been few and far between

 

[gibbanator]

No it wasn't

70,000 two top 4 contenders suggests otherwise

 

[smiddaz123]

The last big game would've been the elimination final against Brisbane.

Garlett got one goal and 6 touches.
Betts got one goal and 12 touches.

Yarran wasn't trusted on the big stage and didn't play at all. Just to rub salt into the wound, the guy they overlooked in Daniel Rich shone in the final quarter when it counted to send Carlton crashing out of the finals.

 

[Zahki]

70,000 two top 4 contenders suggests otherwise

Hm, I think you've got your math wrong there. I count 1 top 4 contender in that game and it ain't Carlton

 

[The Royal Sampler]

In summary; because Collingwood have Presti, L Brown, O'Bree and Lockyer on their list, none of whom will play this weekend and several of them possibly ever again, our list is on average 0.84 years older and therefore doesn't have the same potential as Carlton's.

A convincing argument, that.

While you're at it, include players like Hampson in your "talented" young list, but not players of the calibre of Reid (first round pick in '06) who;
a) can play the game
b) actually did play last week and will again this week.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Carlton v Geelong April 26 2010 was a pretty big game against powerful side.

Blimey, Port vs. St. Kilda must have been a grand final then!

70,000 two top 4 contenders suggests otherwise

Carlton may be top 4 contenders in this year's draft...

 

[lethalburns]

wtf are these guys smoking...

the list presented above is full of duds except for the top draft picks.

they have no depth whatsoever and it would take a miracle for them to get the level of depth required to win a flag in the next 10 years without another rebuilding phase.

even if you beat us I will still maintain this opinion.

 

[Zahki]

I don't think Carlton have had a 2nd round pick for 3-4 years. That explains their lack of depth Their starting 22 are pretty good but you get into dud territory pretty damn quick after that.

 

[cookie monster]

In summary; because Collingwood have Presti, L Brown, O'Bree and Lockyer on their list, none of whom will play this weekend and several of them possibly ever again, our list is on average 0.84 years older and therefore doesn't have the same potential as Carlton's.

A convincing argument, that.

While you're at it, include players like Hampson in your "talented" young list, but not players of the calibre of Reid (first round pick in '06) who;
a) can play the game
b) actually did play last week and will again this week.

Hampson is injured "dude"

 

[Jabso]

Is Warnock injured?

I know he appears a omitted but is he carrying something and being rested?

 

[cookie monster]

Is Warnock injured?

I know he appears a omitted but is he carrying something and being rested?

i doubt very much, i just think he needs a bit of a wake up call because doesnt seem to be putting the required amount of effort in.

alternatively, the carlton MC could be taking a horses for courses approach and conceding that Kreuzer will be able to hold down the ruck himself which allows Waite to come in and fill a KP spot against a Collingwood side that thrives on tall forwards

 

[laminex]

Why bother? Murphy only runs one way. Can't imagine they'll get enough of the ball for Murphy to make a difference. He never gets his own ball, he waits for someone to do the hard work whilst he runs forward and gets cheap touches.

If our mids are on top Murphy's supply will be cut off.
No point tagging Judd as he is too good to be tagged.
Gibbs is a sheepdog that runs around loose like Bowden in the backline, hopefully we put someone on him to make him accountable.

So what you are spewing is you have never seen the boys you are talking about play hey ron ?

Is Warnock injured?

I know he appears a omitted but is he carrying something and being rested?

I think a year out of the game has done him no favor's. Also for a ruck he is still young and only played 20 odd games. People at Carlton want to much from him IMO

Can anyone tell me why the hell we keep getting the crappy sunday time slot against Carlton?

Should be either a fri night game or sat game.

Also we seem to play our Fri night games vs spud teams like Nth Melb.

Get on it Eddie enough with the crap time slot between 2 of the biggest rivals in the AFL.

I was thinking the same thing, stupid time slot.

Oh please Black Flog...

We're a far better side than you and will tear you to shreds if our pressure is anything like the last two weeks [and we kick straight]. We've all been there and beaten the Cats [albeit we did it at their peak and by 86 points].

Looking forward to this game.

Mate have some class, no need for name calling, if you win good for you. It's not life or death and it's sure as shit not worth getting angey over.

yeah but we're going to bring our drinking game

i think collingwood will be better prepared having watched what was going on a week earlier. looking forward to seeing whether my team can replicate it or not actually.

To be honest with you, thats all i am hoping for. The pies are a better team all over the ground. i am just hoping we play hard and make them earn a win and not lye down like we did last time. If we play hard we can give our selfs a chance. If we play like we did against the dons we will lose by 100+ points you can bank on that.

 

[KissStephanie]

I would argue that our 'potential' is better.

That depends on whether you mean potential to win a premiership, or potential to be competitive without winning a premiership. Carlton have the potential to be the latter.

Collingwood in 2010 have the 5th oldest list in the AFL (23.51 average years) while Carlton have the 5th youngest (at 22.67 average years).

Do you have any idea how insignificant that difference of a few months is when Collingwood's average age is being inflated by three players that are 30 years and older that didn't play lest weekend? The fact that you're missing is that very few teams win a premiership at the average age of over 27 years of age on Grand Final day, and Collingwood is still a fair way from that because the average age of the team that beat Essendon last week was only 24.4 years.

For comparison, the Dogs top that list at 24.14 and the Tigers are at the bottom at 22.51 years.

Who cares about the age of Footscray's list? Their team that beat Adelaide on the weekend was 26.5 years, and that is old. Geelong's was 26.9, and St.Kilda's was 26.3. Those three teams will be either almost 27 years of age, or slightly over on Grand Final day. The last team that won a premiership with the average age of over 27 years on Grand Final day was Fitzroy in 1944, so history suggests their window is shut. Collingwood is currently three finals series from that, while Carlton is only four finals series from that.

You guys are also the 3rd most experienced side in the AFL with an average games per player of 70.85. The Dogs top that list at 74.46 games per player.Carlton on the other hand average 50.65 games per player.

So? That doesn't alter the fact that Collingwood are quite young and that their window is opening now. Collingwood's average experience is being inflated by Shane O'Bree with 242 games, even though he can't get a game. Simon Prestigiacomo with 223 games, and he plays a role that means he could continue for a couple more years. Tarkyn Lockyer with 220 games, even though he can't get a game at the moment either. Leigh Brown has played 208 games, and he can't get a game either and is not in Collingwood's best team because he is no more than handy.

That is a total of 893 games from four players that did not play last weekend, and only one of them is a certainty to play in Collingwood's best team, whilst on the other hand, Carlton do not have any players on their list that have played more than 200 matches. The other main difference regarding that is whilst Collingwood were giving game time to youth, and still playing finals at the same time over the previous four seasons, Carlton were tanking for draft picks and adding to their significant wooden spoon collection.

Again for comparison the Tigers (least experienced side in the AFL) average 44.67 games per player.

What does this mean? Are you trying to suggest that Richmond are capable of playing competitive finals footy in the coming seasons, are you trying to suggest that Carlton's future is similar to Richmond's?

It explains your recruiting/ trading policy last year od stocking up on experienced players (Jolly/ Ball).

For years Collingwood has not recruited an experienced player over the age of 25, whist this year they had two young players they wanted to draft which were Ben Sinclair and Josh Thomas. They then took a risk to trade for Darren Jolly and Luke Ball in the hope they could still get Sinclair and Thomas, which they were still able to do. The trade and draft period could not have gone any better for Collingwood. Carlton on the other hand gave up pick #11 for Brock McLean.

Malthouse sees your window open, and wants to capitalise on a shaky St Kilda/ Geelong in his final year as coach (and with a developed, mature and experienced team).

Oh my goodness. Firstly, Collingwood's window is opening now, but it's not open yet. Secondly, Malthouse is not in his final year of coaching. Thirdly, Collingwood has clearly had one eye on the current situation while still looking toward the future.

Carlton are in a toatally diiferent phase. Our window isnt even open yet.

What a load of rubbish. There is no way that Collingwood and Carlton could be in totally different phases at the moment when the difference in ages of both teams are so close. Collingwood's window is opening, and Carlton's should be as well because they are not that much younger.

Hell. We're happy just playing finals at this stage.

That's the difference between Collingwood and Carlton. In 2008, Collingwood were the youngest team to win a final in eight years with an average age of 23.9 years. Carlton were older than that in last seasons Elimination Final, and they lost, yet you're just happy to be playing in a final. In the two years since that win, Collingwood's best team will not have aged by two years because they keep introducing youth whilst remaining in the finals.

We dont consider outselves a better team... at the moment. But in a few years we will be.

Collingwood is a better team at the moment, and I think they will be in a few years time as well because there is so very little difference between the ages of both clubs. By then though, Collingwood may have won a premiership or two as well. I have a good source that I trust that believes Martin Clarke will return from Ireland to Collingwood next season, and there is no doubt in my mind that he would be in Carlton's best team as well.

He will further strengthen Collingwood, while with the new draft rules, there is no chance of Carlton being able to add such a talented player to their list later this year. Collingwood will also recruit at least one big name player once free agency takes effect, and from what I understand, the player in mind is currently a very important Hawthorn premiership player.

For the record, our oldest players are Scotland (29), Houlihan (28) and Wiggins, Waite and Ohailpin (27).

For the record, Collingwood's oldest players are Simon Prestigiacomo (32), Shane O'Bree (31), Tarkyn Lockyer (30), Ben Johnson (29) and Leon Davis (28). The three oldest are not in Collingwood's current team, while it's possible with the role that he plays, that Presti could go on like Dustin Fletcher. What those three players do though is inflate the average age of Collingwood's list because two of those players are obviously replaceable because they can't get a game.

We finished 7th last year, and look on target to finish somewhere around that spot again this year notwithstanding the loss of Fevola and Stevens.

That's to be determined.

Come around 2013 (like it or not) we are going to be a major force.

I think there are a number of teams that will be in a better position to win a premiership in 2013 than Carlton. They should be able to win a final or two by then though.

I hope I helped.

What you did was display ignorance, a lack of understanding and and a lack of objectivity in your one-sided spin.

 

[Quicky]

This thread is getting off topic. If you aren't discussing the OP don't bother discussing. If it keeps going off topic it will get closed down.

 

[Cthublhu]

Is Warnock injured?

I know he appears a omitted but is he carrying something and being rested?

Nah, Jacobs has been burning it up in the twos pushing for selection for a few weeks now. I think it's a 'Yes Minister' style brave decision for the selectors to drop Warnock, who's been playing well, but we shall see.

 

[Bloben]

It goes to show you how team sports are always greater than one man.

In the absence of Fevola there was a void of goal kickers and Carlton are fortunate enough to have three different type players come in and fill that void. (chop off one big head and three more pop up)

Clubs can sometimes become too reliant on one player which can actually impact the development of other players around them.

Collingwood don't have an Ablett, Judd or Riewoldt however we have a lot of very good players and we never rely on one person.