Opinion Brasilian and South American Football thread

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It is Brazilian State League finals week!

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(I) - National First Division
(II) - National Second Division
(III) - National Third Division
(D) - Access Division
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-Top-10 States- (ordered by state rankings)

São Paulo: Palmeiras (I)-(I) Corinthians [biggest rivalry of the state; simply called 'Derby']

Rio de Janeiro: Botafogo (I)-(I) Vasco [derby, both clubs are black/white]

Minas Gerais: Cruzeiro (I)-(I) Atlético [biggest rivalry of the state: Fox (Cr.) v. Rooster (At.)]

Rio Grande do Sul: Brasil (II)-(I) Grêmio [100th anniversary, same clubs of first final in 1919; Capital v Countryside]

Santa Catarina: Chapecoense (I)-(II) Figueirense [Capital v Countryside]

Paraná: Atlético (I)-(II) Coritiba [the 'Atletiba,' biggest rivalry of the state]

Pernambuco: Náutico (III)-(D) Central [Capital v Countryside]

Goiás: Goiás (II)-(D) Aparecidense [Capital v Countryside]

Bahia: Vitória (I)-(I) Bahia [the 'Ba-Vi,' biggest rivalry of the state]

Ceará: finalists will be known on Sunday

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P.S.:
— Brasil, also known as the 'Xavante,' an Indian tribe, is the most popular club in countryside RS.
— Only Goiás has no club in the 2018 National First Division.
 
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RussellEbertHandball

I will bring the list of state champions soon.

[And here they are! From the Top-11 State leagues:

State - Club (Nat. Division) - #titles (#titles in-a-row)
SP - Corinthians (I) - 29th (2nd)
RJ - Botafogo (I) - 21st
MG - Cruzeiro (I) - 37th
RS - Grêmio (I) - 37th
PR - Atlético (I) - 24th
SC - Figueirense (II) - 18th
PE - Náutico (III) - 22nd
GO - Goiás (II) - 28th (4th)
BA - Bahia (I) - 47th
CE - Ceará (I) - 45th (2nd)
PA - Remo (III) - 45th

Brazil has 27 state leagues, but those would be the main ones.

Here is the full list: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_dos_campeões_estaduais_de_futebol_do_Brasil_em_2018]

This week, the national league begins. Grêmio travels to play against Cruzeiro, in Belo Horizonte. Two Big-12 teams, two state champions. It should be a great game!

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Brazil has a Big-12. Inside the Big-12, there is a Big-8. Inside the Big-8, there is a Big-5. Inside the Big-5, there is a Big-2. :)

P.S.: I believe diegodcg won't have no trouble to identify the clubs:

[Since he did not, here is the list:]

Top-2: Corinthians, Flamengo
Top-5 (3): Palmeiras, São Paulo, Vasco da Gama
Top-8 (3): Botafogo, Fluminense, Santos
Top-12 (4): Atlético Mineiro, Cruzeiro, Grêmio, Internacional
 
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Leo Messi has kicked 1,000 actual goals. You know, the ones that there is a record of, without counting goals kicked in his backyard like other players do...
 

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El Zorro said:
Leo Messi has kicked 1,000 actual goals. You know, the ones that there is a record of, without counting goals kicked in his backyard like other players do...
Click to expand...
Not according to his wiki page post turning 16 and making his debut with Barcelona A grade team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi

or this page which has a higher qualification
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_men's_footballers_with_500_or_more_goals

than this pages
https://newtelegraphonline.com/2017/05/highest-goal-scorers-world-football-history/
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
Not according to his wiki page post turning 16 and making his debut with Barcelona A grade team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi

or this page which has a higher qualification
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_men's_footballers_with_500_or_more_goals

than this pages
https://newtelegraphonline.com/2017/05/highest-goal-scorers-world-football-history/
Click to expand...
https://www.fcbarcelona.com/footbal...nel-messi-reaches-1-000-goals-as-a-footballer

I was contrasting that with Pele's "1,000" goals, of which only about 750 were actually recorded.
 
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El Zorro said:
https://www.fcbarcelona.com/footbal...nel-messi-reaches-1-000-goals-as-a-footballer

I was contrasting that with Pele's "1,000" goals, of which only about 750 were actually recorded.
Click to expand...
It would be nice if they did a reconciliation in that article but looks like the other 360 odd were as a kid at school and for the Barcelona academy La Masia before he turned 16.

Pele scored 1,091 goal whilst playing just for Santos FC. I have no idea how many were for their under age clubs but this is in Portuguese and GremioPower might be able to do a translation and do a break down.

http://www.santosfc.com.br/pele/

His wiki page says he scored 619 for Santos A grade once he turned 16, but it shows he scored 1,033 goals from 1956 ie when he was 16 to 1974 when he was at Santos, before heading to NY Cosmos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelé#Career_statistics
 
700 odd goals in "friendlies". Lots of creative accounting with O Rei's numbers.
RussellEbertHandball said:
It would be nice if they did a reconciliation in that article but looks like the other 360 odd were as a kid at school and for the Barcelona academy La Masia before he turned 16.

Pele scored 1,091 goal whilst playing just for Santos FC. I have no idea how many were for their under age clubs but this is in Portuguese and GremioPower might be able to do a translation and do a break down.

http://www.santosfc.com.br/pele/

His wiki page says he scored 619 for Santos A grade once he turned 16, but it shows he scored 1,033 goals from 1956 ie when he was 16 to 1974 when he was at Santos, before heading to NY Cosmos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelé#Career_statistics
Click to expand...
 
El Zorro said:
"28/9/1959 Amistoso 6ª GAC 4 x 2 Forças Armadas"

L.O.L
Click to expand...

There are 23 goals for non-official teams: 6° GAC (Army Artillery Base), Forças Armadas (Armed Forces squad), Santos/Vasco (clubs combined), and Sudeste (Southeastern Brazil).

TWENTY-THREE!
 
El Zorro said:
700 odd goals in "friendlies". Lots of creative accounting with O Rei's numbers.
Click to expand...

Santos played lots of friendlies. It was an important source of income for the club at the time, and seasons were waaaay shorter.
 
GremioPower said:
There are 23 goals for non-official teams: 6° GAC (Army Artillery Base), Forças Armadas (Armed Forces squad), Santos/Vasco (clubs combined), and Sudeste (Southeastern Brazil).

TWENTY-THREE!
Click to expand...
I would love to see the scorecards for the 600+ "amistosos"...
 

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El Zorro said:
700 odd goals in "friendlies". Lots of creative accounting with O Rei's numbers.
Click to expand...
What does a friendly mean in relation to club football games in the 1950's and 1960's? The Socceroos play plenty of friendlies that aren't that friendly and are highly competitive games.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
What does a friendly mean in relation to club football games in the 1950's and 1960's? The Socceroos play plenty of friendlies that aren't that friendly and are highly competitive games.
Click to expand...
Exactly
 
I think discounting friendlies played decades ago is quite anachronistic.

In a time when seasons were shorter and there was no worldwide broadcast of football matches, international tours and friendlies among clubs and national teams had far greater importance. It was the standards by which teams were often judged, sometimes the only meaningful contact that football as played in different regions had with each other apart from the World Cup every 4 years.

The so called "game of the century" (as described by observers in England) in which Hungary destroyed England at Wembley in 1953 was a friendly. Mind you, Hungary had been Olympic champions recently and had been unbeaten for the past 3 years, but this was an age where information did not travel as easily as today - so even though, in retrospect, Hungary's win might seem unsurprising, and the importance attached to it exaggerated, there's no doubt of how seriously it was taken back then. No international friendly in modern football will ever have the same impact.

Many clubs also celebrate titles in competitions that were nothing but "friendlies", given that the sport wasn't as regulated and thoroughly organised as it now is. Vasco da Gama still maintains that their South American "title" of the 1940's equates to a Libertadores win, even though it was actually a friendly competition organised by Colo Colo in celebration of their Chilean title. Atlético Mineiro sing about being "champions of the ice" in their official club anthem, in reference to an European tour the club did in the 1950's.

Tours of that kind were an important income stream and were taken very seriously at the time, as meaningful competition by both players and supporters who wanted to see their teams do well against basically unknown opponents, as opposed to today's use of club friendlies that is basically just to get players in shape for the season.

Pelé once stopped a ******* war in Nigeria where the two sides involved in the conflicted decided to cease fire for a period of time so they could watch him. That was a friendly as well.
 
GremioPower said:
Pelé was, and still is, an obsession. Many journalists did such a research. Numbers match...
Click to expand...
What are your thoughts on Brazil's chances at the upcoming World Cup? Surely they'd have to come close witht the squad they have chosen, and having watched their friendly against Croatia last night, albeit a dull affair and tough at times, I feel this Brazilian side has more edge, and toughness in midfield to it then previous sides that went to the 2006, 2010 and 2014 World Cups which ultimately cost them, aside from 2014 which was just a disaster after Neymar went down.

Speaking of Neymar he looks primed for a big World Cup. And in this squad with Gabriel Jesus, Firmino, Willian, Coutinho and co. he has the support this time around.
 
Adam Marrett23 said:
What are your thoughts on Brazil's chances at the upcoming World Cup? Surely they'd have to come close witht the squad they have chosen, and having watched their friendly against Croatia last night, albeit a dull affair and tough at times, I feel this Brazilian side has more edge, and toughness in midfield to it then previous sides that went to the 2006, 2010 and 2014 World Cups which ultimately cost them, aside from 2014 which was just a disaster after Neymar went down.

Speaking of Neymar he looks primed for a big World Cup. And in this squad with Gabriel Jesus, Firmino, Willian, Coutinho and co. he has the support this time around.
Click to expand...
We were too young in 2014, and the squad felt the pressure of playing at home. The squad is more experienced now, and I am confident that Tite has worked hard to successfully remove the 1-7 out of their shoulders (the Olympic Gold medal helped a lot, as well).

Our 2006 and 2010 teams are another story. They should have been better and gone further, but both (specially the 2010's) entered in self-destruction mode in the quarterfinals for some reason I have no clue which would be.

Brazilians are not as excited as we use to be. Nobody says it, but the 1-7 has not healed yet. People are afraid of getting hurt again. The team will conquer the people's trust dominating the opposition and going deep into the tournament. Let's see.
 
The 2018-Copa-Libertadores-Finals bracket has been set! I am not sure whether football is tamed war, as some people say, because wars seem to be a tamed Libertadores. Let the struggle begin!

Sixteen teams remain. Here is the way to club soccer greatest acomplishment:

Palmeiras (BRA) - (PAR) Cerro Porteño
Corinthians (BRA) - (CHI) Colo-Colo

Libertad (PAR) - (ARG) Boca Juniors
Cruzeiro (BRA) - (BRA) Flamengo


Grêmio* (BRA) - (ARG) Estudiantes
Atlético Nacional (COL) - (ARG) Atlético Tucumán

River Plate (ARG) - (ARG) Racing
Santos (BRA) - (ARG) Independiente


5a3af63dd3e5f40e14000001.jpeg

"The Glory is for the taken"

*Defending champion.
 
GremioPower said:
We were too young in 2014, and the squad felt the pressure of playing at home. The squad is more experienced now, and I am confident that Tite has worked hard to successfully remove the 1-7 out of their shoulders (the Olympic Gold medal helped a lot, as well).

Our 2006 and 2010 teams are another story. They should have been better and gone further, but both (specially the 2010's) entered in self-destruction mode in the quarterfinals for some reason I have no clue which would be.

Brazilians are not as excited as we use to be. Nobody says it, but the 1-7 has not healed yet. People are afraid of getting hurt again. The team will conquer the people's trust dominating the opposition and going deep into the tournament. Let's see.
Click to expand...
Brazil's 2014 1-7 legacy and physi on its fans probably is in line with our 119 pts lose in 2007 GF.

This, put it behind us and move on, BS cliche driven speak, doesn't address the issue. You have to constantly refer to it as your reference point to improve to shake it off.
 
WORLD CUP SORROWS
(Quarterfinals: BRA 1-2 BEL)

For Brazil, a World Cup Top-8 finish is par for the course. That's just how it is. Brazil's World Cup begins in the quarterfinals.

In the last four WC, BRA were eliminated in: quarters; quarters; semis (but worst humiliation in country's History); quarters. All three of those quarters losses came out self-inflicted wounds: a bad set-piece defense; a second-half meltdown; an own goal followed by a defensive shutdown. Kudos to our very good opponents who were able to capitalize from those mistakes and hold on the victory, but the script is getting tiresome.

Yesterday, we nullified Belgium's counterattack in the second half and had TWO unmissable opportunities to tie the game — kicking both wide. Unbelievable!

When the game was over, my wife asked: "Are you OK?"

— No.

I put back my shirt that I had taken off after Coutinho's miss and went to kiss my older son, who was playing in his bedroom. Kids help us put things back into perspective. "Play on!" It has been a great World Cup, and there are more games left.

The good news is that Brazil has put the 1-7 behind us. We are back to "meh!" Now, it is time to go beyond it. The 2022 cycle has already began for us, and the 2019 Copa America can't start soon enough!
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Originally posted on Facebook at "From Beyond the South"
 
Copa Libertadores — Quarterfinals

Grêmio - Atlético Tucumán
Game 1: Grêmio 2-0, in Argentina

River Plate - Independiente
Game 1: 0-0, at Independiente

Cruzeiro - Boca Júniors
Game 1: Boca 2-0, in Argentina

Palmeiras - Colo-Colo
 
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