Certified Legendary Thread Brett Burton has been sacked and other great things

[hey shorty]

I actually don’t doubt that Fagan has had limited involvement in our footy department, but I’m not sure that’s something he should br hanging his hat on.

An organisation whereby the CEO is sidelined from the core business of that organisation by the Chairman and another director? The question I have regarding Fagan is, how does a quality, career CEO align himself with such a set up? A quality CEO probably doesn’t.

I can see how such a set up was created. Trigg was woeful when it came to the financial side of running a football club. He was lucky we have such a stable membership, which attracts sponsors etc. So when he left we brought in Fagan who’s chief goal was to expand the business and actually capitalise on our inherently strong financial position.

Sure he lacked much of an understanding of football and any meaningful football contacts, but hey, we had Roo as “Football Director” and Chapman fresh from his 6 month stint as our CEO whilst Trigg was suspended, both of whom were ultra keen to chip in and help out.

Now with Noble as head of football, things ran pretty smoothly from a football department perspective. Sure there were a few crises along the way, but they were handled as well as could be expected. So Fagan continues to put his energies towards the business. Chapman/Roo get increasingly cocky in their own abilities and how well the situation is working out. Trouble being their chief roles should be to sit back, take a broader perspective and challenge the CEO on all aspects of the business. How can this be done when they’re the ones call the shots day to day? Who’s holding Roo and Chapman to account when they’re effectively acting as CEO’s anyway?

Now if Fagan has been led down the garden path, then I do feel for him, the trouble is, is he really the right person if he’s allowed himself to be led in such a way?

The other key issue, is if Fagan does have a weakness in the football department, but we think his business acumen overrides this, we need to be installing a strong, competent, experienced administrator under him as football ops manager, who does know football. Not an inexperienced fitness coach who happens to be best buddies with your football director.

What was it Fagan said about the right people in the right chairs?

I guess the thing is, when you have a bloke like Roo who comes in and has the aura about him, signs up PW then Fagan can continue to concentrate on business matters further because a sound decision is made.

I have no doubt the AFL was thrilled with the Burton appointment, it's so insular

 

[BrissyCrow]

This would fit the BF theme nicely. And if by the same token of logic, our hamstring epidemic in 2018 could be explained by the incompetence of the fitness staff before Hass/Burton and it only took effect in 2018.

How about we keep it simple: the admins did good in 2017 but f’ed up in 2018/2019?

I can live with that. They tried to live off the glory of being in a Grand Final and in doing so they stuffed up. They became comfortable. Your only as good as your last game. All I want is that those who did stuff up be held accountable. Now Burton has gone but there are still others at the club like Chapman. I believe he should resign now rather than waiting a year but it seems like we the fans have no possibility of holding the Senior Admin staff accountable.

 

[marty36]

I actually don’t doubt that Fagan has had limited involvement in our footy department, but I’m not sure that’s something he should br hanging his hat on.

An organisation whereby the CEO is sidelined from the core business of that organisation by the Chairman and another director? The question I have regarding Fagan is, how does a quality, career CEO align himself with such a set up? A quality CEO probably doesn’t.

I can see how such a set up was created. Trigg was woeful when it came to the financial side of running a football club. He was lucky we have such a stable membership, which attracts sponsors etc. So when he left we brought in Fagan who’s chief goal was to expand the business and actually capitalise on our inherently strong financial position.

Sure he lacked much of an understanding of football and any meaningful football contacts, but hey, we had Roo as “Football Director” and Chapman fresh from his 6 month stint as our CEO whilst Trigg was suspended, both of whom were ultra keen to chip in and help out.

Now with Noble as head of football, things ran pretty smoothly from a football department perspective. Sure there were a few crises along the way, but they were handled as well as could be expected. So Fagan continues to put his energies towards the business. Chapman/Roo get increasingly cocky in their own abilities and how well the situation is working out. Trouble being their chief roles should be to sit back, take a broader perspective and challenge the CEO on all aspects of the business. How can this be done when they’re the ones call the shots day to day? Who’s holding Roo and Chapman to account when they’re effectively acting as CEO’s anyway?

Now if Fagan has been led down the garden path, then I do feel for him, the trouble is, is he really the right person if he’s allowed himself to be led in such a way?

The other key issue, is if Fagan does have a weakness in the football department, but we think his business acumen overrides this, we need to be installing a strong, competent, experienced administrator under him as football ops manager, who does know football. Not an inexperienced fitness coach who happens to be best buddies with your football director.

What was it Fagan said about the right people in the right chairs?

Roo and Chapman running the club

And not even getting paid

Makes logical senses

NOT

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[Mike Smyth]

CEO has very little say in footy matters, he's been pushing for a review for 18 months only to be told everything was good.

And he believed them?

 

[Mike Smyth]

Frustrating thing is if the club turns things around, Chapman will take the credit and supporters with goldfish memories will forget all the disasters he's overseen. I'd prefer he left now so he couldn't coast on the hard work of Nicks and others.

I think we can safely say the club won’t be turning anything around, at least not for awhile. Our next 1 year premiership window isn’t due for another 5 years.

 

[1970crow]

Nah fu** all that. When Fagan got to the club, he promised supporters he'd put together a quality footy department. His exact words were that putting the right people in the right positions was a "controllable". He's proven since then that he's completely full of s**t and none of us should be giving him a free pass for what happened these past 2 years.

Here are some choice quotes...

“That is my history ... deliver the best football program because that is what you can control. Put the right people in the right seats - and get the right system in place.

“That is the focus for me - give the Adelaide Crows the best football progam in the AFL.”

So by the standards he set for himself, he's been a complete and utter failure.

Fair enough, no problem with that view. My thoughts are just that when he said that he genuinely believed as CEO had be empowered to make calls. And he probably was right up until Roo’s best mate‘s contract wasn’t extended at Brisbane and he needed a job. Knowing how incompetent our board has been, I’m comfortable with Fagan getting a pass under the assumption that Chapman, Roo and Burton were the architects and implementer of all things football and that Fagan was isolated from that area.

 

[1970crow]

Pretty sure our players had a good year in 2017 despite our terrible footy department, not because of it. The last 2 years prove that.

We won one less game than the year before during the minor round.

 

[1970crow]

I actually don’t doubt that Fagan has had limited involvement in our footy department, but I’m not sure that’s something he should br hanging his hat on.

An organisation whereby the CEO is sidelined from the core business of that organisation by the Chairman and another director? The question I have regarding Fagan is, how does a quality, career CEO align himself with such a set up? A quality CEO probably doesn’t.

I can see how such a set up was created. Trigg was woeful when it came to the financial side of running a football club. He was lucky we have such a stable membership, which attracts sponsors etc. So when he left we brought in Fagan who’s chief goal was to expand the business and actually capitalise on our inherently strong financial position.

Sure he lacked much of an understanding of football and any meaningful football contacts, but hey, we had Roo as “Football Director” and Chapman fresh from his 6 month stint as our CEO whilst Trigg was suspended, both of whom were ultra keen to chip in and help out.

Now with Noble as head of football, things ran pretty smoothly from a football department perspective. Sure there were a few crises along the way, but they were handled as well as could be expected. So Fagan continues to put his energies towards the business. Chapman/Roo get increasingly cocky in their own abilities and how well the situation is working out. Trouble being their chief roles should be to sit back, take a broader perspective and challenge the CEO on all aspects of the business. How can this be done when they’re the ones call the shots day to day? Who’s holding Roo and Chapman to account when they’re effectively acting as CEO’s anyway?

Now if Fagan has been led down the garden path, then I do feel for him, the trouble is, is he really the right person if he’s allowed himself to be led in such a way?

The other key issue, is if Fagan does have a weakness in the football department, but we think his business acumen overrides this, we need to be installing a strong, competent, experienced administrator under him as football ops manager, who does know football. Not an inexperienced fitness coach who happens to be best buddies with your football director.

What was it Fagan said about the right people in the right chairs?

Fagan May have been working feverishly and challenging the operation internally until he finally got his way and the review removed a couple of major problems and possibly shone a light onto structural failures. If he went he went, I wouldn’t complain, hell, I’d be bumping threads and posts of mine from 3 years ago. But, if he did go against the Chappo/Roo grain, and survive, then I think it’s more valuable to have him remain on a final chance. And whilst I agree that to allow yourself to be isolated is a piss poor sign, we’ve got a COO that has absolutely nothing to do with footy at all as well.

This is why my preferred structure removes the CEO from the operational footy hierarchy. The, “who’s responsible for this?” discussion is over in seconds.

 

[1970crow]

When you replace a competent operator like Noble with a completely incompetent like Burton, this is what happens.

The question we need to be asking is how did we even consider Burton for the role when he doesn't even meet the essential criteria for the role. Says a lot about those who made the appointment!

And how the hell wasn‘t he on fixed term contract given his training wheels status? Only one answer there, it was a mate looking after the best interests of a mate.

 

[cleanhands]

You do realise once the club gets to a GF, then it’s out of the club administrators’ hands right? The GF is solely dependent on the players and the coaches on the day.

So basically the admins did their job well in 2017. Of course the 2 years afterwards was the biggest 180 degree turnaround that we really didn’t need, and changes needed to happen.

So that makes what was relevant now irrelevant

 

[hey shorty]

And he believed them?

CEO approves a board and footy department decision.

Given that in theory they know more than him, then yeah he would believe them. It's his job to run the financials, it was Birdbrains job to run footy.

 

[Mismatched]

CEO approves a board and footy department decision.

Given that in theory they know more than him, then yeah he would believe them. It's his job to run the financials, it was Birdbrains job to run footy.

It is Fagan's job to run the organisation. He was Burton's direct superior, its not just his job to run the financial's, the CEO's job is to run the organisation. He no doubt delegates, but end of the day what goes on is his ultimate responsibility. If the situation is such that the chairman and "football director" are circumventing you, that's a massive red flag, you get out. End of the day when s**t hits the fan, its your career, your livelihood, your reputation, your future on the line, Chapman and Roo just pin the blame on you and move on.

 

[jackster83]

It is Fagan's job to run the organisation. He was Burton's direct superior, its not just his job to run the financial's, the CEO's job is to run the organisation. He no doubt delegates, but end of the day what goes on is his ultimate responsibility. If the situation is such that the chairman and "football director" are circumventing you, that's a massive red flag, you get out. End of the day when s**t hits the fan, its your career, your livelihood, your reputation, your future on the line, Chapman and Roo just pin the blame on you and move on.

It's pretty obvious he was asleep at the wheel. Would only be heard from after a win and would go missing when we were going poorly on-field. How much of this was by design (ie. Roo and Chapman telling him to stay away from football matters) I'm not sure.

He's been at the club for long enough now that the non-football background excuse doesn't wash.

In more recent times, the review gets a tick (even if it was a month too late), and Kelly seems like a good appointment.

 

[Mismatched]

This would fit the BF theme nicely. And if by the same token of logic, our hamstring epidemic in 2018 could be explained by the incompetence of the fitness staff before Hass/Burton and it only took effect in 2018.

How about we keep it simple: the admins did good in 2017 but f’ed up in 2018/2019?

How about we conduct a proper analysis and have our facts straight for a start FFS.

Fact 1 - Hamstring epidemic started in 2017, not 2018.
Fact 2 - Burton/Hass took over our fitness department at the end of 2015. That's a good 18 months before hamstring epidemic started (or 30 months going by your erroneous timeline). Hamstring epidemic is Burton/Hass alone.
Fact 3 - It only take 1 preseason to completely F*** up the conditioning of a playing group. Its probably a credit to Polous regime that it took Burton/Hass 18 months to cause the problems they did.
Fact 4 - Brisbane's injury list was a mess under Burton and Hass as well.

Also, how is our hamstring epidemic at all comparable to how Burton and co f'd up the football department as a whole?

A proper analysis does not "keep it simple", it starts with getting facts straight and looking beyond the "obvious".

Let me guess, you think credit for the Geelong premiership of 2011 should lay predominantly at the feet of Chris Scott

 

[Mr_Moogle]

In more recent times, the review gets a tick (even if it was a year and a half too late), and Kelly seems like a good appointment.

Fixed this for you.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It is Fagan's job to run the organisation. He was Burton's direct superior, its not just his job to run the financial's, the CEO's job is to run the organisation. He no doubt delegates, but end of the day what goes on is his ultimate responsibility. If the situation is such that the chairman and "football director" are circumventing you, that's a massive red flag, you get out. End of the day when s**t hits the fan, its your career, your livelihood, your reputation, your future on the line, Chapman and Roo just pin the blame on you and move on.

I don't think it's healthy for both the Chair & CEO to leave at the same time, particularly with a new Footy Manager & Coach.

It makes sense for Chapman to go now as has overstayed his welcome, then hopefully in a couple of years our new Footy Ops manager is worthy of being a CEO.

We also need to refresh some our board, with a better mix of skill sets.

 

[Mismatched]

I don't think it's healthy for both the Chair & CEO to leave at the same time, particularly with a new Footy Manager & Coach.

It makes sense for Chapman to go now as has overstayed his welcome, then hopefully in a couple of years our new Footy Ops manager is worthy of being a CEO.

We also need to refresh some our board, with a better mix of skill sets.

I don't necessarily disagree. Chapman needs to go, full stop. Fagan I'm happy to stay at present, although I suspect we maybe implementing a transition period whereby Kelly succeeds Fagan in 12-24 months.

 

[John Who]

How about we conduct a proper analysis and have our facts straight for a start FFS.

Fact 1 - Hamstring epidemic started in 2017, not 2018.
Fact 2 - Burton/Hass took over our fitness department at the end of 2015. That's a good 18 months before hamstring epidemic started (or 30 months going by your erroneous timeline). Hamstring epidemic is Burton/Hass alone.
Fact 3 - It only take 1 preseason to completely F*** up the conditioning of a playing group. Its probably a credit to Polous regime that it took Burton/Hass 18 months to cause the problems they did.
Fact 4 - Brisbane's injury list was a mess under Burton and Hass as well.

Also, how is our hamstring epidemic at all comparable to how Burton and co f'd up the football department as a whole?

A proper analysis does not "keep it simple", it starts with getting facts straight and looking beyond the "obvious".

Let me guess, you think credit for the Geelong premiership of 2011 should lay predominantly at the feet of Chris Scott

Look, I respect you as a poster but I’m making an honest point which you seem to completely have misunderstood. That is, a team can’t just make a GF and it bears absolutely no relevance to the admins doing (Burton and Co.). That would be akin to your physio or doc who have helped cure some ailments in recent years, and you then have a major flare-up this year, and you then erroneously conclude your physio/doc was completely useless.

Also your “fact 1” was an opinion more than a fact. Sure we had some significant injuries back in 2017, but the players were able to be rotated and kept fresh until basically the knee/hammy to Smith and McGov at the end which ****ed up our structures bad for the GF. In 2018 was a true epidemic because we had injuries happening to 1/2 players weekly from roughly the start to the middle of 2018! We could barely suit up an SANFL team in 2018!!

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Also your “fact 1” was an opinion more than a fact. Sure we had some significant injuries back in 2017, but the players were able to be rotated and kept fresh until basically the hammies to Smith and McGov at the end which f’ed up our structures bad for the GF. In 2018 was a true epidemic because we had injuries happening to 1/2 players weekly from roughly the start to the middle of 2018! We could barely suit up an SANFL team in 2018!!

Smith did his knee. It wasn't a hammy.

 

[John Who]

Smith did his knee. It wasn't a hammy.

Sorry got too caught up with the hammy epidemic mentality..

 

[jackster83]

I don't necessarily disagree. Chapman needs to go, full stop. Fagan I'm happy to stay at present, although I suspect we maybe implementing a transition period whereby Kelly succeeds Fagan in 12-24 months.

Ricciuto needs to * right off too. Preferably now.

 

[1970crow]

It is Fagan's job to run the organisation. He was Burton's direct superior, its not just his job to run the financial's, the CEO's job is to run the organisation. He no doubt delegates, but end of the day what goes on is his ultimate responsibility. If the situation is such that the chairman and "football director" are circumventing you, that's a massive red flag, you get out. End of the day when s**t hits the fan, its your career, your livelihood, your reputation, your future on the line, Chapman and Roo just pin the blame on you and move on.

100% agree. Except that you have 2 options. Get out, as you say, is the first. Dig in and fight against the flawed regime is the other. If he walked and there’d not been a review, we’d be in a much worse spot right now. He might have shown weakness early, and rolled over when Burto rolled in, but I’m prepared to forgive that as long as he holds Roo and Chappo accountable going forward. And let’s face it, had Fagan jumped on a sword, Roo and Chappo would have carte Blanche to choose his replacement.

 

[marty36]

Ricciuto needs to fu** right off too. Preferably now.

Or the rest of the board could grow some balls and do what they are supposed to although I reckon they are doing their jobs as independent board members

It's just people love to blame those with a profile

If you are going to blame a board decision then the board needs to be blamed not one of them or two

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[spenze]

Still, sacked?

Good

 

[hey shorty]

In 2 years it'll be 7 for Fagan and in theory we will have got our new facility up and running

Perfect time for him to depart.