Brisbane needs help

[Rod Stroker]

I would happily sit through ten years of mediocrity if it meant we won three flags in a row.

Mediocrity would imply mid table, which is not where they are nor where they've been.
Plus, who's to say it won't be more than 10 years given their current state.

 

[final fight]

I like seeing them struggle.

 

[Damon_3388]

So you say that, yet they won 3 flags, but haven't made the finals in 9 years and struggle to get 20K to a game. So they were given the retention, had all the success, and now 10 years later are a basket case on and off the field. Sounds like a failure to me.

I'd say it's more a failure of the club's management post-premierships, rather than a failure of the equalisation measures. They weren't intended for Brisbane to sustain premiership success forever. The league put measures in place to keep them afloat and give them a genuine opportunity to succeed. After that, it's up to them.

 

[scoman]

IMHO we don't need/ deserve a priority pick. Also don't think extra salary cap space is going to change much in the short term as we have plenty of space available and enough issues trying to keep our own players let alone attracting new ones.

An earlier poster mentioned our poor drafting and retention has left us with very very few decent players in the 24 - 29 year age group. That coupled with a change of coach has left us in a big hole on the field.

This off season will be interesting. I don't think we have as many guys off contract this year, but if we have another 2 or 3 play the homesick card I think we will be at our knees.

Also think the academy system is fantastic and in time might help with our retention issues.

 

[frednirk]

Brisbane have a huge premiership drought. It must be tough for their supporters.

Yes they need help. Shower them in money and resources to get them back up the top.

 

[AFLQLD]

Most people from AFL states really don't get what the sporting environment is like in Queensland. They think they do. AFL is to a large degree an underground movement, hidden from view of most people in Queensland. There is sometimes open antagonism against people just for being AFL fans. Despite that, recently grassroots AFL is going OK in many areas because of hard work by relatively few people. In comparison, in AFL states there is a century of that grassroots development. The hard work in SE Qld will pay off, but not for a decade or two yet. At the professional end though, it is a hard slog. And a hard market to be a footy team in. There just isn't the flow of money, corporate support, rich members, media buzz that happens even with small clubs in footy states.

For the Lions, things got much tougher when GC came in. Despite a population of several million in SE Qld there might only be a few hundred thousand that could be considered genuine AFL fans and many of these are interstate migrants or their kids, historically wedded to Melbourne clubs. The low crowd at the Lions v GWS game had more to do with the absence of GWS fans than Lions fans. We rely quite heavily on all those fans of other clubs to come along to boost the crowd enough to make a profit on games -GWS don't have many fans.

However, the fan base for the Lions has been growing especially with younger kids, but slowly. The arrival of GC immediately stripped about a third of that fan base away - people who lived in the Gold Coast and Logan area in particular who now had their own team to support, and one that the AFL handed all the right cards to for success.

The Lions support is quite strong on the Sunshine Coast and Northern Brisbane in particular but it might take several decades to rebuild the lost fan numbers to GC. Gold Coast is the AFL's love child and while every club took some of the draft pain when the Suns came in, Brisbane bore the real off-field brunt of it. In dollar terms, media exposure (limited before, and now halved), sponsorship etc. The Lions did the hard slog of selling the game in Qld for a decade and a half, and the Bears before them. Much of that work was repaid by the AFL gifting the Suns opportunities the Lions could have only ever dreamed of. Our own poor management did us no favours either.

Even despite all that, I don't object to the Suns though, because it grows the game long term for the next few decades. In the short to medium term, Brisbane need a little of the AFL support that has been showered so liberally upon the Suns.

 

[greennick]

Would love to help them by giving them a first rounder for Rocky! Help with the rebuild, no?

 

[scoman]

Would love to help them by giving them a first rounder for Rocky! Help with the rebuild, no?

Hands off buddy

 

[Groo2]

Most people from AFL states really don't get what the sporting environment is like in Queensland. They think they do.

well said.
Anyone who does not live in Brisbane/SE Qld, need to read this post before adding to this discussion.

 

[Tedeski]

Eddie yesterday has his targets set on the academies of Sydney and Brisbane i truly believe he doesn't want a interstate competition to succeed at all.

I can't explain my dislike for the type of person Eddie is. In one sentence he comes across as the saviour of the AFL 'National' competition with his comments but only a few words later he reinforces his true thoughts on what he thinks about interstate clubs that are becoming too powerful for his team to cope with.

I don't like him one bit & the sooner he takes his grubby mitts off any AFL decision making process (equalisation), the better the competition will benefit. He is biased & is only interested in more gain for his club but at the expense of any other club. He wants us in the comp but only as cannon fodder for his team to put on a show for the adoring Collingwood members. He shoves comments down our throats such as the pulling power Collingwood have in games. He forgets & refuses to highlight any advantages that Collingwood has benefitted from (government funded state of the art training facilities) & shouts down anyone that questions him on air about any suspect Collingwood related thing that may have happened by belittling another club & talking them down. He has an unfair advantage in the media where he forces his way on programs where he can continue to run his propaganda war against anything that may be a threat to his club.

-When we recruited Nick Davis, he warned our club that he will fight tooth & nail to have the CoLA removed. (I'm glad it will be gone).
- He came out with 'kind' words for the Bulldogs saying he wanted them to survive in our comp only to come out earlier this year questioning them travelling to Arizona in the pre season saying they were spending money they haven't got.
-A few years ago he made a suggestion we try & help ourselves by recruiting more NSW players. We now have our own academy & he is attacking that.

Eddie doesn't want a national competition. He wants a 'lions versus christians' competition where his team can't lose & are the main attraction.

You are a fraud & a racist Eddie & your true colours came out with your King Kong comments.
You are not a very well respected person at the Swans behind the scenes but they will never attack you publicly because you are a vindictive natured bully that will seek revenge.

 

[Scotland]

I would happily sit through ten years of mediocrity if it meant we won three flags in a row.

We're halfway there.

 

[Tedeski]

At no point in Brisbane's history has the club had anymore than 21% of its list from Queensland. In 2014 10% of the Lions' list is from Queensland.

To combat the larger 'go-home' factor, the club had a player retention allowance. Did it work? Partly. Shane O'Bree, Jarrod Molloy, Des Headland, John Barker still all asked to be traded back to Melbourne. Others such as Tim Notting, Chris Johnson were persuaded to stay after they too expressed interest in returning to Victoria.

Jonathan Brown was drafted through the father-son rule and grew up a Fitzroy supporter so it was easier to retain him on that basis, but even so, the Lions had to work fairly hard to retain him when Collingwood threw a considerable amount of money and other inducements to recruit him. Foremost amongst Collingwood's arguments to Brown is that he would be able to return to his home state to be closer to friends and family.

We saw a prime example of the go-home factor when five of Brisbane's recruits all left last season. Clubs threw larger sums of money at the five and the lure of being able to return to their home state was significant.

Only Sydney, GWS and Gold Coast face the same problems as Brisbane in that regard. Sydney, GWS and Gold Coast all have salary cap bonuses and have had such for some years.

Brisbane is the only club in a developing market not to have any such bonus.

Spot on!

 

[mike123]

Never should have sacked voss

He had them playing decent footy, and they were on the up

This

 

[skipper kelly]

Although did the recent exodus leave for money or was is it discontent with the administration? If the latter the small amount of retention allowance (as I'd imagine it to be less than Sydney as Brisbane is cheaper to live) wouldn't be enough.

Don't know why the players left.

A retention allowance is only a financial incentive for players to stay in area that is not their origin. I wouldn't care if it applied across the entire league.

Money is only one factor in the issue of teams playing in non-traditional football states in a National competition.

 

[Scotland]

NSW/Qld academies are a brilliant idea, but I'm not sold on giving the NSW/Qld clubs free reign over them.

The most important thing in player development in the Northern states is developing AFL-standard footballers and getting them into the competition - not getting them into 4 clubs.

 

[jackess]

Get your hand off it.

Brisbane were 'gifted' Chris Johnson, Mal Michael, Tim Notting, Jon Brown, Michael Voss, Jason Akermanis, Marcus Ashcroft and who knows how many other players due to the extra salary cap they had. Take those players out and Brisbane would have been lucky to even make finals.

The AFL manufactured Brisbane's premierships.

Must be interesting living in fantasy land but in the real world this post is ridiculous. Tell me on your planet has Melbourne actually been any good in the last 10 years?

 

[Lion for Life]

For example, the Lakers traded an average player Vlade Divac for draft pick 1 which they used to secure Kobe Bryant. Five championships later, there is no doubting who got the better of that deal. Shrewd administration is the key to success, not sitting back waiting for the AFL to pour a truck load of money into your back yard.

It would be nice if when the AFL talk about equalization, they actually looked at reasons why it is necessary, not just how to make more money out of it.

This is not true, in a pre draft agreement with the Charlotte Hornets the Lakers had the rights to their first round picked player (pick 13, Kobe) which the Hornets then on trade in exchange for Vlade Divac. However, very shrewd management indeed

 

[Freomaniac]

I would happily sit through ten years of mediocrity if it meant we won three flags in a row.

Yeah you want that wouldnt you? Your team has won enough flags in 25 years anyway...

But back on the topic...

Its not the 1st time Brisbane has been poorly run.

Go back to Brisbane (Bears) early years of 1987-1990 when they were lucky to get 5 wins in a season. When they 1st started, They were given Veterans and Rejects from other clubs just to field a team. Not to mention that Queensland is not an Aussie Rules state like SA, WA, Tasmania and Victoria. They were also were like Nomads as they didnt have a proper home, They were playing home games at Gold Coast for Petes sake.

Compared to the other new side in 1987 The West Coast Eagles. Yeah they only had 35 players but WA is an Aussie Rules state.The WAFL was a strong league at the time. Also the Eagles played their home games at Subiaco or the WACA.

Then in 1991 Robert Walls, who coached the Blues to a flag in 1987, came in to Coach Brisbane and he stayed there until 1995. In that 5 year span, he slowly built up the squad and recruited young guys like Voss, Leppitch, Akermanis etc. By 2001, the lions won the flag.

Robert Walls Brisbane stint from 1991-1995 was Along with Barassi Melbourne from 1981-5 and Sydney stint from 1993-5, was an important developing period.

Paul Roos is doing the same thing with the demons now.

 

[Demonheart]

Must be interesting living in fantasy land but in the real world this post is ridiculous. Tell me on your planet has Melbourne actually been any good in the last 10 years?

What has this got to do with Melbourne? Talk about living in a fantasy land, you have no argument so you make shit up and try to deflect.

Typical Brisbane fan, can't win an argument so you try and make it personal

 

[JeffDunne]

well said.
Anyone who does not live in Brisbane/SE Qld, need to read this post before adding to this discussion.

I live in Brisbane and I reckon he's talking shit.

 

[Damon_3388]

Get your hand off it.

Brisbane were 'gifted' Chris Johnson, Mal Michael, Tim Notting, Jon Brown, Michael Voss, Jason Akermanis, Marcus Ashcroft and who knows how many other players due to the extra salary cap they had. Take those players out and Brisbane would have been lucky to even make finals.

The AFL manufactured Brisbane's premierships.

Yeah, nah.

Marcus Ashcroft - Non-Draft Zone Selection
Michael Voss - Non-Draft Zone Selection
Jason Akermanis - Zone Selection, 1994
Tim Notting - Pick #26, 1996 National Draft
Chris Johnson - Pre-Draft Selection
Jonathon Brown - Pick #30, 1999 National Draft (Father-Son)
Mal Michael - Traded in from Collingwood in exchange for Jarrod Molloy and Pick #44 in the 2000 National Draft (which Collingwood then on-traded to Geelong for Carl Steinfort, with the Cats then using the pick to draft Josh Hunt)

The only one from that group you could say was "gifted" to Brisbane was Chris Johnson. Every other club could have had Tim Notting, Jonathan Brown and Mal Michael, if they had really wanted them. It's not the AFL's doing that Ashcroft, Voss and Akermanis were Queenslanders either, and it's not unfair at all IMO that Brisbane had first access to local talent during that era, considering the paucity of talent being produced, and the need to establish the game in QLD too. Having extra salary cap allowances no doubt would have helped with player retention, but I feel that would have been more of a factor with retaining non-Queenslanders than anyone else.

Just out of interest, does anyone have an exact figure of how much "extra" the Bears/Lions got when they were receiving the retention allowance?

 

[Jamurp]

Brisbane will be okay, they're going through a rough trott, like several other clubs have gone and are going through. I still think they've got a healthy fan base when they're up and about.

 

[Lion for Life]

Get your hand off it.

Brisbane were 'gifted' Chris Johnson, Mal Michael, Tim Notting, Jon Brown, Michael Voss, Jason Akermanis, Marcus Ashcroft and who knows how many other players due to the extra salary cap they had. Take those players out and Brisbane would have been lucky to even make finals.

The AFL manufactured Brisbane's premierships.

What an absolute load of shit;

Chris Johnson came to the club through the AFL agreed merger, yes, your club agreed to this.

Mal Michael was secured in a 100% legitimate trade with Collingwood in exchange for Jarrod Molloy, whom they obviously rated higher as we were considered the losers in this trade.

Tim Notting was taken with our pick 26 in the 1998 AFL draft, nothing dodgy there.

Jonathan Brown was secured under the father/son rule, which through the merger, again agreed to by all clubs including yours, gave the new club the Brisbane Lions all rights to future Fitzroy father/sons.

Michael Voss, Jason Akermanis and Marcus Ashcroft were all drafted by the Bears prior to the merger which again by agreement between the AFL and all other clubs would go on to play for the new entity th Brisbane Lions.

Not a single one of these players were 'gifted' as you say, good recruitment and development however was key, don't cry because your club was and is not capable of doing the same. Ridiculous.

 

[Demonheart]

Yeah, nah.

Marcus Ashcroft - Non-Draft Zone Selection
Michael Voss - Non-Draft Zone Selection
Jason Akermanis - Zone Selection, 1994
Tim Notting - Pick #26 in the 1996 National Draft
Chris Johnson - Pre-Draft Selection
Mal Michael - Traded in from Collingwood in exchange for Jarrod Molloy and Pick #44 in the 2000 National Draft (which Collingwood then on-traded to Geelong for Carl Steinfort, with the Cats then using the pick to draft Josh Hunt)

The only one from that group you could say was "gifted" to Brisbane was Chris Scott. Every other club could have had Tim Notting and Mal Michael, if they had really wanted them. It's not the AFL's doing that Ashcroft, Voss and Akermanis were Queenslanders either, and it's not unfair at all IMO that Brisbane had first access to local talent during that era, considering the paucity of talent being produced, and the need to establish the game in QLD too. Having extra salary cap allowances no doubt would have helped with player retention, but I feel that would have been more of a factor with retaining non-Queenslanders than anyone else.

Just out of interest, does anyone have an exact figure of how much "extra" the Bears/Lions got when they were receiving the retention allowance?

Marcus Ashcroft - Non-Draft Zone Selection - Gift from the AFL
Michael Voss - Non-Draft Zone Selection - Gift from the AFL
Jason Akermanis - Zone Selection, 1994 - Gift from the AFL
Tim Notting - Pick #26 in the 1996 National Draft - They received Matthew Primus from the Fitzroy takeover and traded him to Port for picks 3 (Hilton) & 26 (Notting), effectively a further gift from the AFL
Chris Johnson - Taken from the Fitzroy list
Mal Michael - Traded in from Collingwood in exchange for Jarrod Molloy and Pick #44 in the 2000 National Draft Jarrod Molly was taken from Fitzroy, they would never have been able to get Michael without that freebie
Jon Brown - Father/son pick as a result of the takeover of Fitzroy

Each and every one of them was from a manner not available to the other sides, either from killing off Fitzroy or through zone selections, which was/is a massive advantage

 

[jackess]

What has this got to do with Melbourne? Talk about living in a fantasy land, you have no argument so you make shit up and try to deflect.

Typical Brisbane fan, can't win an argument so you try and make it personal

Read your post. There's no point arguing with that rubbish.