Opinion Butcher

[Jim Dixon]

IF we can get rid of Tyson Edwards and get a decent forward coach who can help JB learn how to lead we can still get a bit of a decent 2nd tier forward out of our John.

I think there was a play where Wingard got pissed at JB for leading wrong and it's clearly a problem- but if we get a decent forwards coach who can help everyone in the forward line all work together then there's definately a role for Butch because he can go for a clunking mark and even if he doesn't get them, I think with JB in the side we are going to get more value out of Neade, Wingard and Robbie Gray when he's down the forward line.

I know he can't kick for shit, but put Westhoff in front of goal with a set-shot and he goes to water as well. Give him another contract and we could get a 25-30 goal season out of him and more goals out of other people as well.

And we could make this the biggest thread on BF to boot while everyone debates him!

 

[Doctor Feel]

There is a continuum from Eddie Betts to Cloke. I don't know where you think Butcher falls but do you disagree that he needs more muscle?

I think he is about right. Possibly a bit more. Particularly the lower body.

 

[PAFC_1870]

I think there was a play where Wingard got pissed at JB for leading wrong and it's clearly a problem- but if we get a decent forwards coach who can help everyone in the forward line all work together then there's definately a role for Butch because he can go for a clunking mark and even if he doesn't get them, I think with JB in the side we are going to get more value out of Neade, Wingard and Robbie Gray when he's down the forward line.

Did notice Wingard upset, though I also hope he thanked him for his later goals too.... Butcher was playing on Davis all game (till he injured him ) I think.... that's a fair effort...

Hopefully just some white line fever with Chad as one would expect with him, hopefully he is happy alongside him.

 

[PAFC_1870]

For someone playing in defence for over a month to get the call up last minute to be our main key forward target...

...Butch did a great job.

Be honest, the footy is just more exciting with Butch in the team.

This times 10.

He's a guy you want to succeed and would gladly come to the game to see.

 

[Macca19]

Lol. I don't know what you think a forward is. The only monsters are hawkins and cloke. The latter cant run out of sight on a dark night.

Add Walker, Tom Lynch (GC), Casboult, Pav, Roughead, Kennedy, Franklin, Tippett, Redpath, Patton, Boyd, Petrie, Jenkins and almost Hogan and you'd be right.

 

[chiwigi]

...he would've been delisted 3 years ago and we would've moved on and not having this conversation now.

Even better then. We could have looked elsewhere.

 

[El Zorro]

IF we can get rid of Tyson Edwards and get a decent forward coach who can help JB learn how to lead we can still get a bit of a decent 2nd tier forward out of our John.

So, a guy that we drafted in 2009 still needs to be taught how to play footy... something is really wrong with our player's development management.

 

[StrappingTape]

He looks like he has been avoiding weights training for his whole life. Too light for the pack-crashing forward some are trying to sell here.

Size wise at the ground though he was noticably a bigger body, maybe years of being used to Schulz lining up at FF but I think the stream of GWS dudes hobbling away from contests shows he has enough body presence to be considered pack crashing.

 

[Jim Dixon]

So, a guy that we drafted in 2009 still needs to be taught how to play footy... something is really wrong with our player's development management.

There's a world of difference between AFL level and even the SANFL. Yes there's a heck of a lot wrong with our player development between 2009 and 2015, in my opinion. We are just as justified in asking why Andrew Moore hasn't come on as he should have as well.

But Andrew Moore is up against Aaron Young and Brendan Ah Chee for that 'depth inside mid' role. We're bereft of KPF options and we have to make the best of Butch until Harvey*/Shaw/Frampton become options.

(I got to watch the Magpies for once this weekend and oh boy Mitch Harvey was no-where to be seen. I hope he'll make it but clearly still a work in progress)

 

[Doctor Feel]

Add Walker, Tom Lynch (GC), Casboult, Pav, Roughead, Kennedy, Franklin, Tippett, Redpath, Patton, Boyd, Petrie, Jenkins and almost Hogan and you'd be right.

Agree for the most part but i wouldn't call some of them monsters. Broad shoulders definately. Butch certainly has narrow shoulders which unfortunately cuts a slender figure. Tippett is just fat but

 

[Macca19]

I'm more talking about torso as opposed to arms. He's got a very slender torso. Very thin at the waist.

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

I tell you what, that piece of play which set up his goal was something special. I didn't realize how hard he worked in it. Took a good mark on the wing, perfect kick to a player, follow up handball, ran from CHB at the same pace as the ball - to set up a lead, mark, goal.

It's one of the best pieces of individual play I have seen from a Port player this year.

 

[Doctor Feel]

I tell you what, that piece of play which set up his goal was something special. I didn't realize how hard he worked in it. Took a good mark on the wing, perfect kick to a player, follow up handball, ran from CHB at the same pace as the ball - to set up a lead, mark, goal.

It's one of the best pieces of individual play I have seen from a Port player this year.

I agree. I remember it clearly. Covered alot of ground to get back to make a target for the kicker. He was knackered.

 

[Dylan8]

Funnily enough I just experienced real Deja Vu reading this thread

 

[El_Scorcho]

I'll post something I wrote a few months ago, to respond to the 'we never showed faith in him' crew:

I don't disagree with any of this. My problem has always been 2014 and 2015.

To sum up the innumerable tomes i've written on this issue:

At the start of 2014, the coaches came out and talked about how important Butcher was and how important it was that we played the 3 tall structure. After 3 games, we dropped him for reasons that were certainly not obvious from an onfield perspective. He'd been solid in the first game, good in the second, and below par in the third. Hardly a droppable offence for a developing tall.

He went back to a league that is difficult for key forwards and averaged 3 goals a game for the next 12 weeks, but wasn't seen again.

In 2015 he was our best performed KPF in the preseason and matched the performances of Schulz and Westhoff in tough conditions against the best defensive side in the league in Freo at Subiaco. He was then dropped for a woefully unfit ruckman in the worst selection decision I can remember in my time following the club.

I totally agree that he had injury issues and that we had to guide him through them. We finally got him over those issues and he looked fit and confident, and was treated incredibly harshly by the standards that we've applied to just about every other player on our list.

I don't usually think football clubs owe players anything, but it would be ****ing bullshit if he was dropped this week.

 

[El_Scorcho]

He looks like he has been avoiding weights training for his whole life. Too light for the pack-crashing forward some are trying to sell here.

So he's too light to do what we all just saw him do with our own eyes?

His presence around the packs changed the way our entire forwardline worked. His defenders were worried about him. There are very few key forwards built like a keg in 2015. Cloke and that's about it. Butch has the size and the aggression.

 

[BrockBlitz]

This is noticable. I dont think he looks any different to when he got drafted, physically speaking.

His hips mean he can't put on more weight otherwise they will be under too much stress. This is is playing weight.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I don't think there is a whole lot wrong with Butcher's size. He's certainly able to contribute at the size he is. He's never going to be a Cloke or a Hawkins, but we don't need him to be that.

 

[Tibbs]

He looks like he has been avoiding weights training for his whole life. Too light for the pack-crashing forward some are trying to sell here.

Burgess was reported last year saying that Butcher cant put on any more weight, or he will cause more damage to his hips.

But that aside, do we need him to be a bigger monster to be successful?
John Butcher - 197cm / 94kg
Josh Bruce - 196cm / 94kg
Jer Cameron - 195cm / 95kg
Jack Riewoldt - 195cm / 92kg

That was at the start of this year, but to me Butcher looks actually slightly bigger than he did last year. He was crashing into every pack fine, just needs to get his timing & confidence going IMO. If he can replicate the weekend's effort over the next three game ... he deserves a contract extension!

 

[PAFC_1870]

I tell you what, that piece of play which set up his goal was something special. I didn't realize how hard he worked in it. Took a good mark on the wing, perfect kick to a player, follow up handball, ran from CHB at the same pace as the ball - to set up a lead, mark, goal.

It's one of the best pieces of individual play I have seen from a Port player this year.

Was hoping someone mentioned the leadup, many excellent things set that up.... confidence became a wonderful thing in that passage of play.

He is easily worth persisting with. That includes next season.

 

[Tibbs]

Funnily enough I just experienced real Deja Vu reading this thread

The other things is ... I keep comparing him to Schulz - Basically a disappointing, arguably failed, 1st round pick. Finally Schulz moved on to Port for peanuts! (Thank you Richmond!!). A snapshot comparison of their first FIVE years:


Butcher averaging more kicks, more handballs, more disposals, more goals, more behinds, and more tackles. (OK, OK, more out-on-the-fulls too! )
Then the first year he is able to get his body right, we cut him from our list and trade him to another club for peanuts! Now that is "Deja Vu"!!!

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

The other things is ... I keep comparing him to Schulz - Basically a disappointing, arguably failed, 1st round pick. Finally Schulz moved on to Port for peanuts! (Thank you Richmond!!). A snapshot comparison of their first FIVE years:
View attachment 163207

Butcher averaging more kicks, more handballs, more disposals, more goals, more behinds, and more tackles. (OK, OK, more out-on-the-fulls too! )
Then the first year he is able to get his body right, we cut him from our list and trade him to another club for peanuts! Now that is "Deja Vu"!!!

They are some really interesting stats right there.

**** I hate this feeling because I am getting so excited about the thought of Butch being in this team the rest of the year, and onwards. And is scares me this will be my next Webb, Newton, Bass, Jacobs etc etc. PLEASE DONT LET THE TSW CURSE CONTINUE

 

[Mangus Onfries]

Not so much of the pocket focussed forward entry that suits Sarge's suicide style. Crumbers could act where they're most damaging and every forward50 had potential.

I said this exact thing to my wife during the game.

 

[Sneeky]

They are some really interesting stats right there.

**** I hate this feeling because I am getting so excited about the thought of Butch being in this team the rest of the year, and onwards. And is scares me this will be my next Webb, Newton, Bass, Jacobs etc etc. PLEASE DONT LET THE TSW CURSE CONTINUE

He's gawnnnnnnn

 

[QPower]

A damning fact is that in 6 years at Port Butch has not developed a consistent goal kicking routine.

His run-up, ball drop and kicking action changes almost every kick he takes.

This not only is an indictment on Butch but raises questions about the coaching he has received.