Bye bye Clarkson

[Only Forwards]

Has the season finished?

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yes

 

[Gasometer]

Let’s look at prior History when clubs bottom out and have a horrible club culture. Success takes time and there is no silver bullet here.
Melb Demons
Tanking, Bailey, Neeld, horrible picks, and Roos comes in and handoff to Goodwin + nail some class picks with Clarry/Trac etc .
2013 - 2 wins
2014 - 4 wins
2015 - 7 wins
2016 - 10 wins
2017 - 12 wins
2018 - 14 wins
2019 - 5 find (went off the rails)
2020 - 9 wins (back on the rails)
2021 - Win GF

Hawks
2004 - 4 wins
2005 - 5 wins
2006- 9 wins
2007 - 13 wins
2008 - Win GF

So what is par for the Club (not just Clarko, as its a team effort on and off the pitch right?) Here are 6 criteria I would like to see recorded at year’s end compared to last year.

1. Wins - from 2 to 4.
2. Average losing margin reduced by 40%
3. Team Disposal efficiency improve by 10%
4. Reduce turnovers/Clangers by 20%
5. Missed/Effective tackles improved by 20%.
6. Some endurance/fitness metric (yoyo runs, 2 KM etc) that improves by 5% as a group. Clearly we cannot run out a game atm, so need to address this.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the club to share this type of plan with its members. An old business adage that equally applies to sport. “What gets measured gets managed”.

Members?

 

[Danni_Benson]

It's obviously been an extremely difficult 2 years for him.

But the above is a bit of a cop out I have read repeatedly in the last few weeks

• Clarko was announced in August 2022.
• The racism article dropped in September 2022.
• The North Melbourne board met in late October 2022 and approved his start date as North coach on November 1st 2022.
• Video of his first preseason training sesson back for the first time on Feb 21 2023.
• Clarko stood down from North on May 18 (Round 10) last year for mental health.
• The AFL terminated the AFL investigation on May 30th of that year.
• He returned to the the club on the 4th August (Round 21)
• Remained coach since.

He's missed about 3-4 months in the soon to be 2 years since he was appointed in August 2022, which was reported by all and sundry at the time that he was already rolling his sleeves up immediately.

He was involved in trade week/draft as well as preseason for season 2023, despite people now ignoring that. (We know this because Daniel Howe, Liam Shiels and Josh Gibson are all recruited to the club)

He had all of trade week/draft, as well as preseason for season 2024.


He's had as much time to implement a functional game plan as both Noble and Shaw received.



Talk of sacking him is ridiculous, but criticism of his results to date are absolutely warranted. He looks more Barrassi at Sydney or Pagan at Carlton at the moment than the coach he was at Hawthorn.

His team selections are Brad Scotts levels of crap, game day tactics very stagnant and not much of a plan B from what I can see. His "recruitment" has been horrible also. Howe, Shiels, Tucker and Stephens were all Clarkson picks 'apparently'

Jury is very much out on this ultra attacking game plan off of D50 launches even working against recent premiers who's game plan is all based on F50 pressure and forward half pressure and turnover game.

All the best sides are the best pressure and defensive sides in the league, we are the worst in this aspect and a big portion of it revolves around the game plan and how exposed this running forward leaves the D50 on simple turnover. We are nowhere near fit enough to play this style either.

I simply think it’s far too early to make a call and he would have certainly been very preoccupied with the racism situation for the bulk of last year. That was obviously an incredibly trying time for him (and all in involved) and despite what was portrayed, I don’t imagine he would have had much clear head space to think about much else other than that.

As they say in the classics, time will tell…

 

[ferball]

And yet, that same Collingwood core finished 17th in 2021.


Does this core look terrible that Clarko inherits?

Goldstein, Ziebell, Cunnington, Simpkin, Larkey, LDU, McKay, Zurhaar, McDonald, Greenwood, Thomas, Logue, Stephenson, Shiels, Scott, Hall, Xerri?

Compared to those other clubs yes. Four were past it, well six really but we have two still there because we need old harder bodies. Four played about half a season - four of the better ones (LDU, Logue, Thomas and Xerri). Zurhaar missed a third of the season. Only Larkey, Scott, Simpkin, McDonald, McKay and Stephenson played 18 or more games and the last three of those are really pretty average.

One thing is for sure, with the amount of young talent on the list at the moment, failure will not reflect well on Clarko on reflection in 5-10 years imo with some names at his disposal currently.

True but of that young talent, specifically the 7 first round draft picks, 5 have been here less than six months.

 

[taurus]

No issue with cuddly Clarko right now.

What good is screaming at a bunch of kids and blokes who aren't good enough going to do? It might satisfy the man in the outer for 5 minutes, that's about it. I guess some think that's the most important thing.

FMD, FML, FFS as we say.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

And great coaches do evolve as the game progresses. As you have rightly pointed out, what is the use?

Across codes, coaches say they only have two sprays per season. Anything more, the group stops responding. Clarko knows that he has kids. He is okaying a long game.

 

[RossHenshaw]

Has it really been 2 years for Clarkson in a coaching football sense??? I don’t think so….

I think the carrot and attraction of players from other clubs of playing under Clarko will begin to wear thin soon (if not already) if not much change / improvement occurs. We always found it hard to attract ready made players but we had some hope when Clarko came to us that this would change a bit . The only real decent one i can think of is Griff in recent times.

 

[Danni_Benson]

I think the carrot and attraction of players from other clubs of playing under Clarko will begin to wear thin soon (if not already) if not much change / improvement occurs. We always found it hard to attract ready made players but we had some hope when Clarko came to us that this would change a bit . The only real decent one i can think of is Griff in recent times.

Yes, definitely agree. Need a couple of wins to accompany Clarko as coach and show we’re heading in right direction. Similar to how Melbourne managed to get May and Lever to their club. I could be mistaken, but I don’t think Melbourne were flying at the time of securing those two, but they could see what Melbourne was building.

 

[Sphynx]

Hoyne absolutely ripped Clarkson's game plan to shreds yesterday.

Said we are the worst defensive side of turnover in 8 years.

Also stated we are the worst side this season converting possession to scoring opportunity.

Here's the direct quote:

“Their defensive profile is actually getting worse.

“There is no team easier to turn possession into a score against. They’re the second easiest team to move the ball against, they’ve got the second worst D50 in the competition.

“This is the aspect of grave concern to me at the moment ... they want to play this aggressive game, but when they turn the ball over they are the easiest team to punish on turnover.”

“We haven’t seen an easier team to score against off turnover in eight years,”
“So do they rein it in? Or is this just what they believe in and what they’re wedded to? Is this how they’re going to continue for the rest of the season?

“At the moment it just seems a little bit out of whack ... (and) this sounds harsh but it might actually get worse. They’re scoreboard return has been a bit inflated through ridiculous accuracy.


“We talk about what they’re doing without the footy, but in terms of what they’re doing with the ball, there’s no worse team in the competition at turning possession into a score themselves.”

 

[apollo_creed]

Hoyne absolutely ripped Clarkson's game plan to shreds yesterday.

Said we are the worst defensive side of turnover in 8 years.

Also stated we are the worst side this season converting possession to scoring opportunity.

Here's the direct quote:

As much as some on here like to make excuses our scoring shots against vs inside 50s conceded is absolutely horrid. Not the structure that will see us win games of football. The personnel might be average but that’s only part of the issue.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Hoyne absolutely ripped Clarkson's game plan to shreds yesterday.

Said we are the worst defensive side of turnover in 8 years.

Also stated we are the worst side this season converting possession to scoring opportunity.

Here's the direct quote:

I've always been of the opinion that you build defense first before building a really attacking game plan.

Round 1 & 2 last year we looked like we had all the makings of a really solid backline structure. Then it all went to shit.

Now it looks as though we are attack from half back at all costs, even though we don't have the cattle up the field to kick to.

I'm not seeing a top 8 looking structure in any part of the ground.

 

[Sphynx]

I've always been of the opinion that you build defense first before building a really attacking game plan.

Round 1 & 2 last year we looked like we had all the makings of a really solid backline structure. Then it all went to s**t.

Now it looks as though we are attack from half back at all costs, even though we don't have the cattle up the field to kick to.

I'm not seeing a top 8 looking structure in any part of the ground.

Well the attacking game plan isn't working either, clearly based on "there's no worse team in the competition at turning possession into a score"

 

[gokangas]

I think the carrot and attraction of players from other clubs of playing under Clarko will begin to wear thin soon (if not already) if not much change / improvement occurs. We always found it hard to attract ready made players but we had some hope when Clarko came to us that this would change a bit . The only real decent one i can think of is Griff in recent times.

Fair call. I suppose the one thing we don't know is what the team expects from themselves. Maybe this is a learning year where we are experimenting with the game plan, positions etc with not much expectation re winning. Hope so - at least it would explain why we are so bad still. I am at an all time low re expectation. Won't miss watching a game but I'm no longer excited to watch my boys go round.

 

[RossHenshaw]

Well the attacking game plan isn't working either, clearly based on "there's no worse team in the competition at turning possession into a score"

Hence my humble opinion that the modern game appears to have gone passed him … let’s face it , there are not too many old coaches in the system Fagan , Longmire , Clarko & daylight .
In fact it is the younger types going well at present . Including Mitchell @ the Hawks who I rate .

 

[RossHenshaw]

Fair call. I suppose the one thing we don't know is what the team expects from themselves. Maybe this is a learning year where we are experimenting with the game plan, positions etc with not much expectation re winning. Hope so - at least it would explain why we are so bad still. I am at an all time low re expectation. Won't miss watching a game but I'm no longer excited to watch my boys go round.

“learning year where we are experimenting with the game plan”
But wins improvement & ultimately wins create culture & confidence in our young list .
Let’s face it these young generation are different, they are not as patient & expect stuff now or at least see some light at the end of the tunnel. They look at our older players & just shake their heads in hopelessness … no role models or someone to mentor them.
Thank heck the Sheezels wardlaws , Powells & Ldu’s are showing the way for now .,. But for how long can they carry the incompetent in what should be the more “experienced players” before they drop their heads …?
I am praying we beat the hawks in round 6 because if not , we will not win another game & turning midway of the season at 0-11 …
Arden st will be a terrible place to be in ….

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

I've always been of the opinion that you build defense first before building a really attacking game plan.

Round 1 & 2 last year we looked like we had all the makings of a really solid backline structure. Then it all went to s**t.

Now it looks as though we are attack from half back at all costs, even though we don't have the cattle up the field to kick to.

I'm not seeing a top 8 looking structure in any part of the ground.

Both directions are absolutely pox.

Can’t move the ball fluently.

Can’t prevent the ball being moved fluently.

Disaster entails.

 

[gokangas]

“learning year where we are experimenting with the game plan”
But wins improvement & ultimately wins create culture & confidence in our young list .
Let’s face it these young generation are different, they are not as patient & expect stuff now or at least see some light at the end of the tunnel. They look at our older players & just shake their heads in hopelessness … no role models or someone to mentor them.
Thank * the Sheezels wardlaws , Powells & Ldu’s are showing the way for now .,. But for how long can they carry the incompetent in what should be the more “experienced players” before they drop their heads …?
I am praying we beat the hawks in round 6 because if not , we will not win another game & turning midway of the season at 0-11 …
Arden st will be a terrible place to be in ….

We have the same level of confidence, sadly.

 

[Passmore]

We should be getting Hoyney onboard. Those Champion Data blokes know their stuff.

 

[apollo_creed]

I thought we were tactically shit against Brisbane and too slow to react, mainly in the second quarter. On a small ground we were continually going short and wideout of the backline when they had completely locked us in. We kept persisting and it kept coming back. We were far too slow to adapt and it led to the ridiculous inside 50 discrepancy in that quarter.

Coaches have bad games, just like players.

 

[amaz199]

FWIW, I like the attacking style because it's a billion times better than seeing a kick down the line again and again every single year. I want us to use the corridor. I want our half backs to push up and create.

The first half against Freo (one of the best contested sides in the competition right now) was an absolute lesson for them. They got absolutely done in that first half. But we only got 30 odd points in front. Even when they got back into it and kicked our arses, we still had some patches of clearance dominance but couldn't get scoreboard pressure.

I guarantee you if we had one of Hogan, Curnow or McKay down there, the scores from clearances or chains would be double and we'd be a lot more competitive. I'd go as far as saying we'd have a win or two on the board. A good team that has to be defensively accountable will not be able to hurt us as frequently on the turnover because having quality forwards can make average inside 50s look a lot more dangerous. Especially if they are 200cm. Defenders will get sucked in because of that concern and there are chances of a goal to be scored from a loose ball.

Our list has too many holes and it also impacts when we play well. We just cannot sustain that level of intensity and when it fades we haven't taken advantage of it so that teams cannot get a sniff.

Remember when we did this exact same shoddy ball movement with Petrie, Waite and Brown in our F50? We still scored heavily on a few elite backlines back then.

Good players will cover up bad disposal and still make it work. We don't have that.

 

[The Anvil]

For anyone who has coached a bunch of kids, you're not going to get it turned around in a matter of weeks.

Where other teams with more experience can tinker their established game plan (even during games), we are still setting the foundations (due to the age demographic being a bunch of kids). Very hard to win games regularly until we get the foundations complete and are at the tinkering stage.

It's one of the reasons that belief in the coaching team and some longevity with the playing group and coaching team is important. From every interview I've heard, the belief from the players is there, and now it's time to embed the systems.

We'll get some wins, but it will be against other teams also setting the foundations. Unfortunately we don't get to play any of those in the first 5 weeks of the season.

On the longevity piece, we would be in a better state if Shaw or Noble worked out. Obviously Noble lost the playing group (so fails on the first reason) and Shaw got done by COVID (I have no idea if he would ever have been a good coach). Now if Clarkson replaced Scott (that would have been awesome as we'd be several years into stability being this team.

 

[justroyal]

For anyone who has coached a bunch of kids, you're not going to get it turned around in a matter of weeks.

Where other teams with more experience can tinker their established game plan (even during games), we are still setting the foundations (due to the age demographic being a bunch of kids). Very hard to win games regularly until we get the foundations complete and are at the tinkering stage.

It's one of the reasons that belief in the coaching team and some longevity with the playing group and coaching team is important. From every interview I've heard, the belief from the players is there, and now it's time to embed the systems.

We'll get some wins, but it will be against other teams also setting the foundations. Unfortunately we don't get to play any of those in the first 5 weeks of the season.

On the longevity piece, we would be in a better state if Shaw or Noble worked out. Obviously Noble lost the playing group (so fails on the first reason) and Shaw got done by COVID (I have no idea if he would ever have been a good coach). Now if Clarkson replaced Scott (that would have been awesome as we'd be several years into stability being this team.

You’re 100% right. But one thing you’re going to get is kids trying. Whether it’s foolish or blind hope, they’re going to keep trying.

But that’s clearly stopped over the past two weeks. And it’s coming from somewhere. There must be some senior players not operating at the required 100% who drop their heads and give up on the game - sending this defeatist mentality through the ground by half time and kinda camouflaged with with the rest of the team and go into hiding for the remainder of the game. I’m looking at Jy, McDonald, Corr and Zuurhar here.

We haven’t really gained **** all with some off that ‘leadership’ ejected back into the team. So maybe it’s time to send some of the senior guys who aren’t performing back to the seconds and let the natural youth take over.

 

[north_lad]

Hence my humble opinion that the modern game appears to have gone passed him … let’s face it , there are not too many old coaches in the system Fagan , Longmire , Clarko & daylight .
In fact it is the younger types going well at present . Including Mitchell @ the Hawks who I rate .

Yeah Hawks are cruising at.... 0-4

 

[The Anvil]

You’re 100% right. But one thing you’re going to get is kids trying. Whether it’s foolish or blind hope, they’re going to keep trying.

But that’s clearly stopped over the past two weeks. And it’s coming from somewhere. There must be some senior players not operating at the required 100% who drop their heads and give up on the game - sending this defeatist mentality through the ground by half time and kinda camouflaged with with the rest of the team and go into hiding for the remainder of the game. I’m looking at Jy, McDonald, Corr and Zuurhar here.

We haven’t really gained * all with some off that ‘leadership’ ejected back into the team. So maybe it’s time to send some of the senior guys who aren’t performing back to the seconds and let the natural youth take over.

I'm not a fan of playing guys who are underdone, obviously Corr and McDonald seem to be that. I don't know what to make of Jy, could be playing out of position perhaps but we should expect more. I'd prefer to give guys in the forward line the benefit of the doubt due to not winning the ball in the midfield and providing quality I50 entries (so Zurhaar and Stephenson in mind there). It actually shows how good Curtis and Larkey are that they continue to kick goals regardless of I50 quality and quantity.

On what's happened in the last two weeks, the Roos started the game well against the Blues but the umps really impacted the course of that game. Unfortunately, the ump impact subsequently impacted the players mindsets (which is why Pink looked like a deer in the headlights). Last week, we were horrendous and there aren't excuses but still the Lions had everything on the line as a team fighting to win the premiership and their senior players, especially Neale, gave our midfield a lesson.

On the Blues, the umps have had a significant impact on every game this season for them. Fortunate rub of the green, AFL wanting the Blues to win the premiership, whatever it is, we aren't the only team this season who imploded against the Blues due to umpiring.

The fixture gets easier now, and if we don't see the midfield get on top in Geelong (regardless of result) and a good showing against the Hawks, then we just might have a defeatist mentality through the group.

 

[chubbspeterson]

Hence my humble opinion that the modern game appears to have gone passed him … let’s face it , there are not too many old coaches in the system Fagan , Longmire , Clarko & daylight .
In fact it is the younger types going well at present . Including Mitchell @ the Hawks who I rate .

You've left off Hardwick, Ross Lyon and Ken Hinkley. They are older coaches who seem to still have it.
Ross Lyon is almost a director of coaching at Saints and more credit should go to Hayes/Harvey/Enright his assistants.
I'm not sure the "game has passed him by" just yet. He's got younger coaches to bounce ideas off who bring their own systems from other clubs with Clarke from Tigers and Adcock from Lions and he's scouted the best teams.

 

[Nylex]

Age is no barrier to being a successful senior coach. As long as you are still sharp, motivated and disciplined I don’t see why being older would result in a poorer outcome