C.Rioli, S.Hill or C.Yarran

[tacopavlich]

Which is probably why Yarran does it much more often; don't discount his abilities due to the position he plays. He literally runs through the press at times off HB and on occasion, runs in support of his midfielders and breaks lines through the midfield as well.

I don't necessarily disagree with your comments about Yarran aspiring to be Hill, as far as his ultimate goal being to perform in the midfield where Hill already has some runs on the board, but I hope he'd ultimately aspire to better than what Hill has produced, promising as it has been. It's not talent or performance holding Yarran back though, rather team needs. I'm pretty confident he's go okay on a wing if given the task, but I don't think we'll be seeing that for a while.



Very poor? Not really mate. While not as adept as some of his luminaries, Yarran is a reasonable defender in the air and a very good defender once the ball hits the deck, being able to track the ball and player really well and often holding back on a tackle until the perfect moment. As always though, there is room for improvement.



And what is your basis for this claim? Yarran has exquisite skills, if inconsistently so, and is lauded over them by experts, among them Paul Roos who sings these praises. More objectively, Yaz was top 3 in Retention Rates among the games best ball movers towards the back end of last season and has better Disposal Efficiency as well.

I won't get too much into this other than to say I don't doubt Yarran will evetually produce more than what Hill has done so far, (I didn't word my point very well I think) but it's not like Hill has reached his potential yet either.

And I wasn't arguing that Yarran doesn't have great disposal, but Hill's disposal is fantastic also. Sorry to harp on this but considering they don't play the same position, stats aren't a good measuring stick. It's not like his disposal efficiency would remain the same if he played through the middle as much as Hill while being tagged most of the time.

 

[Monkey King]

I won't get too much into this other than to say I don't doubt Yarran will evetually produce more than what Hill has done so far, (I didn't word my point very well I think) but it's not like Hill has reached his potential yet either.

Of course, I doubt either would have reached their potential at this point. Please don't take anything I say as dissing Hill; he's impressed me greatly and I chose him ahead of Rioli, which is a compliment in itself I would have thought.

And I wasn't arguing that Yarran doesn't have great disposal, but Hill's disposal is fantastic also. Sorry to harp on this but considering they don't play the same position, stats aren't a good measuring stick. It's not like his disposal efficiency would remain the same if he played through the middle as much as Hill while being tagged most of the time.

That's a cop out IMO. Yarran does have better disposal and to me this is obvious; the experts notice it, plenty of others have noticed it and the stats back it up 100%. I'm struggling to find the basis for your comments.

 

[tacopavlich]

Of course, I doubt either would have reached their potential at this point. Please don't take anything I say as dissing Hill; he's impressed me greatly and I chose him ahead of Rioli, which is a compliment in itself I would have thought.



That's a cop out IMO. Yarran does have better disposal and to me this is obvious; the experts notice it, plenty of others have noticed it and the stats back it up 100%. I'm struggling to find the basis for your comments.

I am yet to see an expert claim that Yarran has better disposal than Hill.

I am basing my comments on observation.

 

[Jimmy1992]

I may not be an 'expert' but, FWIW, I rate Hill's disposal just as highly, of not higher than Yarran's. Not saying Yarran's is bad, or average in any way, but Hill has an awesome left boot. Long term, may be one of the best kicks in the competition.

 

[Monkey King]

I am yet to see an expert claim that Yarran has better disposal than Hill.

This is true. The expert comments I refer to are those lauding Yarran's disposal rather than an actual comparison with Hill. My take on this particular aspect is based around the fact these same experts aren't giving Hill's disposal the same praise.

I am basing my comments on observation.

To which I might suggest you should observe more closely

Seriously though, your observations and mine are open to bias, which is why I believe it's worth looking beyond the "you say I say" stuff in a discussion like this; and the objective evidence all points to Yarran having the better disposal.

 

[Brown n Gold]

It should be remembered that Yarran is at Half back because he couldn't get a kick in the forward line.

 

[Monkey King]

It should be remembered that Yarran is at Half back because he couldn't get a kick in the forward line.

Really, why even bother? As a 19yo forward in 2010, Yarran played 16 games, averaged 12 disposals and contributed just under 2 goals p/game. The reason he was moved to a HBF last season was a combination of team balance and maximizing the players impact.

Yaz wasn't an awful small forward, he just had 2 older guys performing better in a small forward role; no shame, as they're two of the best in the league atm. With Yaz having a versatility further up the ground that the others don't and having never been drafted as a permanent small forward anyway, he was always a going to be a candidate to play elsewhere.

 

[Ambrosia]

For the record I would choose Rioli but on Yarran he is a very good hbf but it is his potential to become a inside outside midfielder that makes him a good prospect. His games at hbf have been over rated imo

 

[juniortiger03]

Stephen Hill

 

[yakka man]

It should be remembered that Yarran is at Half back because he couldn't get a kick in the forward line.

Beat me to it, Yaran was moved to half back because of a form slump. Hill has played of half back before and has looked good. But no matter where he goes he always receives extra attention. Unlike last year he has had a full pre-season this year and his fitness is way better.

Regarding Yarran V Hill

-Hill has received more Brownlow votes (10 more, although the medal has lost value)
- Even though Yarran aparently was great last year and Hill apparently was uselesss they averaged the same amount of possies. (17.5/17.8)

Any way the debate should be shelved until the end of this season or the year after. Hill was always viewed as a longer term prospect. And don't forget it is always easier when playing in a stronger team. All three are wicked players.

 

[jonoman89]

Beat me to it, Yaran was moved to half back because of a form slump.

Sorry, what? As previously explained, he was playing very well for a 19 year old half forward flanker in 2010.

We have Eddie Betts and Jeff Garlett in our forward line, both of them amongst the best small forwards in the game. We had a clear need for good disposal in the back half, and Yarran's incredible pace and disposal was exactly what the team needed. And it helped us immensely.

Yarran would still be getting games in our forward line if he wasn't so incredibly effective off half-back.

It's no secret that Carlton is grooming Yarran into a line-breaking, goal kicking midfielder. We said that the day we drafted him: when he gets the tank and footy smarts he'll run rampant. But at the moment we have a plethora of goal kicking small blokes who are nowhere near as good in defence as Yarran, hence his current position.

 

[soupofficial]

This thread is pretty average. It primarily just contains the supporters of the three clubs in question, plumping for whichever player happens to be on their list. Then there are a couple of Essendon fans sniffing around and pumping up Cyril, something to do with how they think Rioli is one of theirs, and destined to return "home" to save them one day.

I'd be far more interested to hear the opinions of non-biased fans of other clubs, but the problem is that they don't really care about this comparison.

Personally, I'd go with Hill. Doesn't provide the amazing goals and pressure that Cyril does, but he's a year younger, doesn't have dodgy hamstrings, is a proven performer in the middle of the ground, and his body is still developing.

 

[Euro Star]

I love watching all 3, they all have the ability to make other players look silly and all 3 have that natural flair that can't be taught. I'd probably choose Yarran as I feel he's the most complete player. Exsquisite skills on both sides, can slot in any area of the field. I feel Hill is let down by his right boot and Cyril is probably let down by his hamstrings.

However, I would wet my bed if any one of them came to west coast. I think Hill is in for a massive year if his pre-season is anything to go by so who knows what we'll be saying at the end of it.

 

[masai]

Then there are a couple of Essendon fans sniffing around and pumping up Cyril, something to do with how they think Rioli is one of theirs, and destined to return "home" to save them one day.

Please explain why Essendon supporters would think Cyril has thought of them as home ?.

If you quote the family connection through cousin Deano, I think Uncle Maurices would be 10 times stronger.

 

[soupofficial]

Please explain why Essendon supporters would think Cyril has thought of them as home ?.

If you quote the family connection through cousin Deano, I think Uncle Maurices would be 10 times stronger.

I know - it doesn't make sense. They manage to feel hard done by because they didn't get to draft him, even though they took David Myers while Cyril was available. I've got no idea of how to explain this "one of ours" thing - you'll have to get a Bombers fan to have a crack at it.

 

[yakka man]

Sorry, what? As previously explained, he was playing very well for a 19 year old half forward flanker in 2010.

We have Eddie Betts and Jeff Garlett in our forward line, both of them amongst the best small forwards in the game. We had a clear need for good disposal in the back half, and Yarran's incredible pace and disposal was exactly what the team needed. And it helped us immensely.

Yarran would still be getting games in our forward line if he wasn't so incredibly effective off half-back.

It's no secret that Carlton is grooming Yarran into a line-breaking, goal kicking midfielder. We said that the day we drafted him: when he gets the tank and footy smarts he'll run rampant. But at the moment we have a plethora of goal kicking small blokes who are nowhere near as good in defence as Yarran, hence his current position.

Before he was moved into the backline Yarran hadn't done much. In 2010 he scored 19 goals from 16 games. You haven't had a a decent key forward so the spoils for the small forwards is larger. Garlett a rookie pick has always offerred more up forward then Yarran and kicked more goals in 2010 (Garlett is a beauty though).

Both should be great players but Hill I believe has a larger scope for improvement.

 

[Monkey King]

Before he was moved into the backline Yarran hadn't done much. In 2010 he scored 19 goals from 16 games.

19 goals and 11 goal assists from 16 games isn't a bad return from a 19yo small forward. The claim he did nothing in that position, and that this the reason behind his move to the HBF, is simply not at all an insightful assessment of the player.

 

[Brown n Gold]

Really, why even bother? As a 19yo forward in 2010, Yarran played 16 games, averaged 12 disposals and contributed just under 2 goals p/game. The reason he was moved to a HBF last season was a combination of team balance and maximizing the players impact.

Yaz wasn't an awful small forward, he just had 2 older guys performing better in a small forward role; no shame, as they're two of the best in the league atm. With Yaz having a versatility further up the ground that the others don't and having never been drafted as a permanent small forward anyway, he was always a going to be a candidate to play elsewhere.

Hmmm pretty awful when you consider a bloke like Bruest swanned in and "contributed" 47 goals in 17 games in his first season, granted he was a year older.

 

[Slattery_20]

I've honestly no idea what you're on about.
Are you saying we rate him particularly highly because we passed on him, or particularly poorly for the same reason?

 

[Monkey King]

Hmmm pretty awful when you consider a bloke like Bruest swanned in and "contributed" 47 goals in 17 games in his first season, granted he was a year older.

Luke Breust is older than Yarran and was drafted the same year - 2008. So Breust actually had a full two years in the AFL system before contributing 44 goals from 17 games in 2011. While Yaz was doing quite well as a forward in 2010, Breust was still kicking it in the Hawthorn ressies.

Now Breust does deserve some serious kudos for performing to the level he did last year, but I have no idea why you think that makes Yarran's more than adequate performances as a small forward in 2010 "pretty awful". Or more to the point, how this proves Yarran "couldn't get a kick in the forward line", as you first claimed.

A lot of chasing your own tail here IMO.

 

[soupofficial]

I've honestly no idea what you're on about.
Are you saying we rate him particularly highly because we passed on him, or particularly poorly for the same reason?

You rate him highly because he's from the Rioli/Long family, and you think that the extended family is the greatest in football, and property of EFC. One of your recruiting bozos went for a tweener-sized, immensely forgettable utility instead of Cyril in 2007, and to soothe the burn of that, Essendon fans have managed to convince themselves that he "belongs" at Tullamarine, and that it's only a matter of time until he returns "home".

 

[Shadow Hunter]

Yarran thanks going to be a great player has the AFL at his feet, still can't believe we picked him up at #6 in the draft wow.

 

[GordonBlue]

Any of the three, but I wouldn't swap Yarran for either