Recommitted Cameron Rayner [re-signed until 2023]

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I'm a little surprised he doesn't get more midfield or even half back minutes just to get him involved in different ways. Brisbane won plenty of games comfortably, why keep him just plugging away at half forward?

Otherwise, yeah his development was always likely to be slow. Wasn't his 3km time prior to the draft almost diabolical (but seen as progress and unsurprising).
 
master bate said:
I'm a little surprised he doesn't get more midfield or even half back minutes just to get him involved in different ways. Brisbane won plenty of games comfortably, why keep him just plugging away at half forward?

Otherwise, yeah his development was always likely to be slow. Wasn't his 3km time prior to the draft almost diabolical (but seen as progress and unsurprising).
Click to expand...

In hindsight I agree. He was fit enough to spend a lot more time in the middle this year but we opted to continue with consistency. Expect him to take a big step next year with more time in the middle.
 
THE_GUN said:
I personally rated Rayner very highly in his draft and have watched him a bit, But i must say he has been extremely disappointing with what he has so far produced in his 3 years.

Players that he needs to be compared to are the likes of Dustin Martin , Jordan De Goey & Cristian Petracca with their talents and ability as well as the positions they play and draft position. But when you do a player comparison with all 3 he is not near any of them at the same age and after 3 years you would expect a big improvement but his output in his 1st year was better than his current season.

Now when you also add in the improvement in the team and personnel of the lions this gets even worse as there should be a massive jump.
looking at what he has produced his value would not be any better than pick #15 and if he produces another year similar to 2020 and after 4 years you would be thinking even less.

2020 stats
17 games
9.8 poss
3 tackles
1 goal

Career stats
11 poss
0.9 goals
2.5 tackles
Click to expand...

‘Extremely disappointing?’ You are a bloody hard marker. The hierarchy at the Lions have a very different opinion about that.
The notion that he would only be worth pick 15 is laughable. Move on lol


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Daniels Riches said:
‘Extremely disappointing?’ You are a bloody hard marker. The hierarchy at the Lions have a very different opinion about that.
The notion that he would only be worth pick 15 is laughable. Move on lol


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
He is currently close to a 10 disposal/goal a game type player.

he is closer to Gary Rohan than he is Dusty at the moment.

He won’t leave and he still has potential but pick 15 probably is about right for his value
 
BJK#5 said:
He is currently close to a 10 disposal/goal a game type player.

he is closer to Gary Rohan than he is Dusty at the moment.

He won’t leave and he still has potential but pick 15 probably is about right for his value
Click to expand...

Was interested in having a decent convo about Rayner with you, but as soon as you compared him with Rohan, it’s obvious that you really haven’t watched him too much.


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Daniels Riches said:
Was interested in having a decent convo about Rayner with you, but as soon as you compared him with Rohan, it’s obvious that you really haven’t watched him too much.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
Mate He is currently a low ball winning forward who doesn't consistently hit the scoreboard. That is what he is. He has room to grow and no one doubts his potential.

After 50 games in the system though no one is going to pay up for 'what he might be'. I think we both agree he will stay at the Lions and probably become a key part of the Lions future. But on value a mid first rounder is about right IF he were to try to leave.
 
BJK#5 said:
Mate He is currently a low ball winning forward who doesn't consistently hit the scoreboard. That is what he is. He has room to grow and no one doubts his potential.

After 50 games in the system though no one is going to pay up for 'what he might be'. I think we both agree he will stay at the Lions and probably become a key part of the Lions future. But on value a mid first rounder is about right IF he were to try to leave.
Click to expand...
It's two different conversations. If your aunt had balls...
 
BJK#5 said:
He is currently close to a 10 disposal/goal a game type player.

he is closer to Gary Rohan than he is Dusty at the moment.

He won’t leave and he still has potential but pick 15 probably is about right for his value
Click to expand...

It took Gary Rohan 7 years to kick 20 goals in a season. The most disposals he has ever averaged in a season is 11.11. Obviously the broken leg severely impacted him but I don't think they are very comparable.

Rayner kicked 20 goals in each of his first two seasons, and kicked 17 this year at an average of a goal a game.
 
Tom14 said:
It took Gary Rohan 7 years to kick 20 goals in a season. The most disposals he has ever averaged in a season is 11.11. Obviously the broken leg severely impacted him but I don't think they are very comparable.

Rayner kicked 20 goals in each of his first two seasons, and kicked 17 this year at an average of a goal a game.
Click to expand...
Yes and i think he will be a better player long term, probably by a long way.

Dusty averaged 22 disposals and a goal and a half per game in his second season.

My point was never that he is the next Rohan, just simply that the Dusty comparisons are a long way off base on exposed form. The narrative that Dusty also struggled early is wrong.
 
BJK#5 said:
Yes and i think he will be a better player long term, probably by a long way.

Dusty averaged 22 disposals and a goal and a half per game in his second season.

My point was never that he is the next Rohan, just simply that the Dusty comparisons are a long way off base on exposed form. The narrative that Dusty also struggled early is wrong.
Click to expand...

I never made the Dusty comparison and I don't think Rayner will ever be close to dusty personally. So I think we are fundamentally in agreement there. But there is a very wide range of outcomes between Rohan and Dusty I guess, I'd have Rayner on the positive side of the median between the two but still not anywhere close to Dusty.
 
Tom14 said:
I never made the Dusty comparison and I don't think Rayner will ever be close to dusty personally. So I think we are fundamentally in agreement there. But there is a very wide range of outcomes between Rohan and Dusty I guess, I'd have Rayner on the positive side of the median between the two but still not anywhere close to Dusty.
Click to expand...
Not you, just in general it is a common comparison thrown up (especially on the main board thread).

The Lions are the perfect club for him at the moment. If he was taken 1 and at a club that was still battling at the foot of the ladder I think he would be under a ton more pressure.

As it stands the Lions don’t need him to be a superstar, he just needs to be a difference maker. I expect he will probably re-sign although will be interesting to see if it happens over the off season or if he backs himself in to have a strong year and up his value.
 
Tom14 said:
It took Gary Rohan 7 years to kick 20 goals in a season. ... I don't think they are very comparable.

Rayner kicked 20 goals in each of his first two seasons, and kicked 17 this year at an average of a goal a game.
Click to expand...
You've been given the correct comparison.

Mitch Hannan has kicked 22 goals in a season twice.
 

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BJK#5 said:
As it stands the Lions don’t need him to be a superstar
Click to expand...
I think this is a pretty important point to make, if he was playing in a poorer side I could certainly see him being thrown into the midfield a lot more than he is currently which would probably result in him getting more towards the 15-20 touches a game. At the moment it's a pretty hard midfield to crack into but with Zorko moving more forward I hope to see Cam be the one to replace him.
 
Daniels Riches said:
**** me... Now we are comparing Hannan to Rayner? Best I stay away from this thread!


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
Facts don't care about your feelings.

Rayner's record is no better than a player who's not best 22 at a non-finalist club.

Rayner on the left and Hannan on the right.

It is what it is despite your umbrage.



[TD valign="top"]

[TD valign="top"]
CareerStats for SeasonCareer
63Games50
5.9Kicks6.5
5.1Handballs4.6
11.0Disposals11.1
3.0Marks2.8
0.9Goals1.1
0.7Behinds0.6
2.5Tackles2.3
0Hitouts0
2.1Inside 50s2.6
0.4Goal Assists0.5
0.9Frees For0.8
0.7Frees Against0.7
4.9Contested Possessions4.8
6.3Uncontested Possessions6.6
7.5Effective Disposals7.4
68.2%Disposal Efficiency %66.7%
1.9Clangers2.0
0.5Contested Marks0.5
0.8Marks Inside 500.8
1.2Clearances0.7
0.5Rebound 50s0.1
0.9One Percenters0.9
0.2Bounces0.1
77.9Time On Ground %76.8
0.4Centre Clearances0.3
0.7Stoppage Clearances0.4
4.2Score Involvements4.5
187.5Metres Gained195.1
2.3Turnovers2.5
1.2Intercepts1.3
0.7Tackles Inside 501.0

[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[/TD]
[/TD]
 
Trav 20 said:
Facts don't care about your feelings.

Rayner's record is no better than a player who's not best 22 at a non-finalist club.

Rayner on the left and Hannan on the right.

It is what it is despite your umbrage.



[TD valign="top"]

[TD valign="top"]
CareerStats for SeasonCareer
63Games50
5.9Kicks6.5
5.1Handballs4.6
11.0Disposals11.1
3.0Marks2.8
0.9Goals1.1
0.7Behinds0.6
2.5Tackles2.3
0Hitouts0
2.1Inside 50s2.6
0.4Goal Assists0.5
0.9Frees For0.8
0.7Frees Against0.7
4.9Contested Possessions4.8
6.3Uncontested Possessions6.6
7.5Effective Disposals7.4
68.2%Disposal Efficiency %66.7%
1.9Clangers2.0
0.5Contested Marks0.5
0.8Marks Inside 500.8
1.2Clearances0.7
0.5Rebound 50s0.1
0.9One Percenters0.9
0.2Bounces0.1
77.9Time On Ground %76.8
0.4Centre Clearances0.3
0.7Stoppage Clearances0.4
4.2Score Involvements4.5
187.5Metres Gained195.1
2.3Turnovers2.5
1.2Intercepts1.3
0.7Tackles Inside 501.0

[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[/TD]
[/TD]
Click to expand...
Nice spreadsheet. But it knows sfa about footy.

It's an art and a science.

He is not Dusty, but he is not Hannan.
 
Trav 20 said:
Facts don't care about your feelings.

Rayner's record is no better than a player who's not best 22 at a non-finalist club.

Rayner on the left and Hannan on the right.

It is what it is despite your umbrage.



[TD valign="top"]

[TD valign="top"]
CareerStats for SeasonCareer
63Games50
5.9Kicks6.5
5.1Handballs4.6
11.0Disposals11.1
3.0Marks2.8
0.9Goals1.1
0.7Behinds0.6
2.5Tackles2.3
0Hitouts0
2.1Inside 50s2.6
0.4Goal Assists0.5
0.9Frees For0.8
0.7Frees Against0.7
4.9Contested Possessions4.8
6.3Uncontested Possessions6.6
7.5Effective Disposals7.4
68.2%Disposal Efficiency %66.7%
1.9Clangers2.0
0.5Contested Marks0.5
0.8Marks Inside 500.8
1.2Clearances0.7
0.5Rebound 50s0.1
0.9One Percenters0.9
0.2Bounces0.1
77.9Time On Ground %76.8
0.4Centre Clearances0.3
0.7Stoppage Clearances0.4
4.2Score Involvements4.5
187.5Metres Gained195.1
2.3Turnovers2.5
1.2Intercepts1.3
0.7Tackles Inside 501.0

[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[/TD]
[/TD]
Click to expand...

Lol good try mate. Obviously you purely rely on stats, which demonstrates that you have a limited knowledge on football.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
THE_GUN said:
Martin didnt have a massive tank to play midfield in his first 2-3 years and was mainly played foward with stints in the midfield , Rayner has now had 3 years and should have the tank to go through the middle atleast 40%-50% of the game.
Click to expand...
Ever consider that not everyone develops at the same rate? And not everyone starts at the same base. Rayner's endurance was pathetic as a draftee, easily his biggest weakness. He's noticeably improved at it but can still improve much more.
 
Johnny Bananas said:
Ever consider that not everyone develops at the same rate? And not everyone starts at the same base. Rayner's endurance was pathetic as a draftee, easily his biggest weakness. He's noticeably improved at it but can still improve much more.
Click to expand...
Thats rubbish and just a silly excuse

Players with Pathetic endurance dont get early games in their 1st years and dont play 63 games in the first 3 years, Dusty came to the club with extremely bad endurance and spend 80% time in the foward line.

If the endurance was as bad as you are saying he would have spent the 1st year in the neafl building similar to Stocker and RCD
also after 3 years you would imagine a mid/fwd would have already developed this in a professional club.
 
THE_GUN said:
Thats rubbish and just a silly excuse
Click to expand...
You can rubbish it as much as you like, but it's true. He finished the 2km run in 7:57, a full minute and 40 seconds slower than Andrew Brayshaw. If you go to the Draft Hub forum and click the thread on combine results, you can compare it to the current draftees times, which are much better.

www.afl.com.au

No.1 fancy's 'slow' 2km run unlikely to faze recruiters

Top draft prospect runs for the recruiters after missing Combine
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

Players with Pathetic endurance dont get early games in their 1st years and dont play 63 games in the first 3 years
Click to expand...
Yes they do, if their role isn't based around endurance, but around specific moments of flying for a mark or crumbing. That was Rayner's role in his first season, but he's slowly been roaming through the midfield as his career has progressed.

also after 3 years you would imagine a mid/fwd would have already developed this in a professional club.
Click to expand...
As I said, different players develop at different rates, and the base they're starting from also matters.
 
JasRulz63 said:
We always drafted him with the intention of starting him forward, while developing his ability to rotate through the midfield as opposed to being a full time midfielder.

“Cam’s an explosive, powerful, half forward that can play some midfield. He’s been touted as a No. 1, really since his U16's, he’s always been a highly regarded player. He’s still a player that’s developing his midfield craft but he’ll start forward of the ball and he’ll end up being a forward that can roll through the midfield. He’s an exciting player.”

www.lions.com.au

Lions select Rayner with Pick No. 1

The Brisbane Lions have selected explosive midfielder Cameron Rayner with Pick No.1 at the 2017 NAB AFL Draft.
www.lions.com.au www.lions.com.au

Conversely, Petracca was playing predominantly midfield during his U18 year.



afl.draftcentral.com.au

Luke McAlister's Phantom Draft

Pick 1 – St Kilda: Christian Petracca (Vic Metro, balanced midfielder/general forward) 186 cm, 92 kg, 4/1/96 Range: Top 5 Comparison: Dustin Martin Going into 2014 there were question marks over Petracca and he’s answered them emphatically, doing everything he possibly could have to prove that...
afl.draftcentral.com.au afl.draftcentral.com.au

I personally think he's tracking along okay at the moment, with the next few years being important to see if he can have more of a consistent impact on the game (both up forward and in the midfield).
Click to expand...
Who really cares what a few BigFooty posters think anyway ask Fagan and the boys what they think of him they love him. He has only been playing for 5 minutes give him a break plenty of upside. I here the same with LDU from some people. Lets revisit in 2,3 years time when they should be nearing there peak.
 
Trav 20 said:
Facts don't care about your feelings.

Rayner's record is no better than a player who's not best 22 at a non-finalist club.

Rayner on the left and Hannan on the right.

It is what it is despite your umbrage.



[TD valign="top"]

[TD valign="top"]
CareerStats for SeasonCareer
63Games50
5.9Kicks6.5
5.1Handballs4.6
11.0Disposals11.1
3.0Marks2.8
0.9Goals1.1
0.7Behinds0.6
2.5Tackles2.3
0Hitouts0
2.1Inside 50s2.6
0.4Goal Assists0.5
0.9Frees For0.8
0.7Frees Against0.7
4.9Contested Possessions4.8
6.3Uncontested Possessions6.6
7.5Effective Disposals7.4
68.2%Disposal Efficiency %66.7%
1.9Clangers2.0
0.5Contested Marks0.5
0.8Marks Inside 500.8
1.2Clearances0.7
0.5Rebound 50s0.1
0.9One Percenters0.9
0.2Bounces0.1
77.9Time On Ground %76.8
0.4Centre Clearances0.3
0.7Stoppage Clearances0.4
4.2Score Involvements4.5
187.5Metres Gained195.1
2.3Turnovers2.5
1.2Intercepts1.3
0.7Tackles Inside 501.0

[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[/TD]
[/TD]
Click to expand...

Totally Agree.
He's average and might be Mitch Hannan at best, don't bother people ! :D
 
THE_GUN said:
Martin didnt have a massive tank to play midfield in his first 2-3 years and was mainly played foward with stints in the midfield , Rayner has now had 3 years and should have the tank to go through the middle atleast 40%-50% of the game.

2021 will be an interesting year and if as you mention he is playing only foward then his output is low for what is expected for a 3rd year physically developed bull.

Jack Higgins drafted in the same draft at pick #17 and has had a massive brain issue that was not expected to play this year and with virtually no pre season is statistically ahead of rayner who was pick #1
Click to expand...
And the Tigers have told him to look else where
 
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