Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[hawkman]

You were defensively solid with Mitchell and O'Meara in the team winning ball and laying tackles. Will you be as defensively solid if you are not winning as much of the ball. So much of a teams defense starts in the middle. If the midfielders struggle defending then a teams defensive structure can fall apart.

I am a Swans fan, I know what happens when the midfield does not step up. It completely exposes the defence and gives your forwards no look in.

We got smashed in the middle most weeks anyway with them in. We averaged 7 less clearances a week than the opposition and 4 of them were centre clearances. It couldn’t get much worse than it already was

 

[RUNVS]

We got smashed in the middle most weeks anyway with them in. We averaged 7 less clearances a week than the opposition and 4 of them were centre clearances. It couldn’t get much worse than it already was

There is a saying in Russia about their history "and then somehow it got worse"

 

[Blackhawk42]

Do Hawks fans have the patience
They are years away from challenging

Probably not. We'll all go and support Tassie when they come in.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

News is in

Epic failure. Back to year zero. 4 or 5 wasted years

 

[Stottzy]

Ecstatic with the result. Getting rid of the deadwood Clarko brought in post 2015. Midfield especially has been terrible for years.

 

[Bradkli]

Mitchell and JOM squeezes us maybe an extra 8 points a season. Big whoop where we are at.

If it gets 2 other kids 20+ games this season I'm all for it.

Jack Gunston and Ben McEvoy are much bigger losses than Mitchell and O’Meara.

Gunston is an elite forward, something we lack depth in. We only have mitch Lewis as a solid key forward. Ollie Henry was the perfect replacement for him. Jai serong will hopefully become that player but he’s at least two years away.

Ben McEvoy was the captain and an incredible leader. He barely played last season but when he did, we won 5/8 games. Whilst Lloyd meek has potential to be a serviceable ruck, he’s not going to make a major difference over the next few years.

 

[Red Bull]

I warned everyone 4 years ago...

this is worse than i ever thought would happen..heading into this years draft with only pick 6, will become 7 and 24 is simply a disaster. Picks 41, 48, 50 and 52 are irrelevant, especially with how weak this draft is. We needed at least another top 20 pick.

A midfield unit of: Newcombe, Ward, Moore, Nash, Maginness, Worpel, Stephens, Morrison, Amon and Pick 7 is as bad a midfield group as you will ever see. The midfield has never been more important and ours has never been worse. Newcombe will be tagged often next year, which is simply unfair for such a young player.

HOWEVER, i believe Sam Mitchell is the right man to take us forward. He's unfortunately left with the absolute destruction Clarkson and Wright left the club in.

Bottom 3 a lock next season. Bottom 4 the year after a lock as well.

We need to nail picks 7 and 24 this year and pray we finish last to get Harley Reid next year.

Probably not something you wanted to be right about, but right you were.
Dead right !!
Plenty of hawks supporters with egg all over their faces that probably owe you apologies for the tone of their earlier posting.
Reality hitting home now and for the next few years like a sledgehammer …

 

[Scotland]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't think Hawthorn will be that bad next year. Bottom 6 fodder sure, but they are that already.

 

[terrybull]

Joe can this thread be so long????

 

[Scotland]

I warned everyone 4 years ago...

this is worse than i ever thought would happen..heading into this years draft with only pick 6, will become 7 and 24 is simply a disaster. Picks 41, 48, 50 and 52 are irrelevant, especially with how weak this draft is. We needed at least another top 20 pick.

A midfield unit of: Newcombe, Ward, Moore, Nash, Maginness, Worpel, Stephens, Morrison, Amon and Pick 7 is as bad a midfield group as you will ever see. The midfield has never been more important and ours has never been worse. Newcombe will be tagged often next year, which is simply unfair for such a young player.

HOWEVER, i believe Sam Mitchell is the right man to take us forward. He's unfortunately left with the absolute destruction Clarkson and Wright left the club in.

Bottom 3 a lock next season. Bottom 4 the year after a lock as well.

We need to nail picks 7 and 24 this year and pray we finish last to get Harley Reid next year.

Ha, 4 years. Where were you for Part 1 in 2016?

I miss the cult of Clarko and the mental gymnastics of Hawks fans.

 

[SA HAWK]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't think Hawthorn will be that bad next year. Bottom 6 fodder sure, but they are that already.

I will be surprised if we are not bottom 2.

We need to bottom out imo have for years.

 

[Freomaniac]

Ross Lyon was allergic to youth

That myth was busted when he was rebuilding the dockers from 2016-19.

Just like the myth that the hawks won the premiership in 2022

 

[Freomaniac]

no hawk fan is predicting that either. But what is success? A threepeat? No other team will do that either

With reference to the thread title, no hawthorn wont have another threepeat with the current list and strategy. But i reckon plenty of teams will go worse in the next three years. We will peak around 2022 before needing to replenish

Good prediction about the hawks peak in 2022

 

[Freomaniac]

Of

Or

By?

Hawks will win the 2023 flag then with all that dead wood they cut out

 

[HairyO]

Probably not something you wanted to be right about, but right you were.
Dead right !!
Plenty of hawks supporters with egg all over their faces that probably owe you apologies for the tone of their earlier posting.
Reality hitting home now and for the next few years like a sledgehammer …

Team wins a bunch of flags then struggles for a few years.

A visionary prediction.

 

[La Dispute]

Good prediction about the hawks peak in 2022

You can go back at any select point in this thread and see these kind of statements.

My favourite is around 100 pages in, Hawthorn had just beaten a Teague-coached Carlton side and we’re subjected to lectures about the dangers of bringing in bulk draft picks and the impact on club culture…

Not as though any of that rhetoric is incorrect, but it’s funny watching the slow shift in mentality towards celebrating draft pick - largely because Hawks supporters now don’t have a choice.

Very few Hawthorn fans didn’t see the writing on the wall or chose to ignore it.

 

[La Dispute]

Team wins a bunch of flags then struggles for a few years.

A visionary prediction.

That’s not really what happened though.

Hawks won three flags, had another finals finish in 2016, missed in 2017, made the finals in 2018 and have been treading water in the bottom 10 since.

Following the threepeat the Hawks haven’t won a single final which means the list strategy didn’t even come close to being effective. It’s been a slow death roll.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Should the thread title be changed to " Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring playing the old guys?"

 

[HairyO]

That’s not really what happened though.

Hawks won three flags, had another finals finish in 2016, missed in 2017, made the finals in 2018 and have been treading water in the bottom 10 since.

Following the threepeat the Hawks haven’t won a single final which means the list strategy didn’t even come close to being effective. It’s been a slow death roll.

We didnt win flags and then struggle ?

Clarko loaded up for a final tilt. It didnt work.

Brisbane tried it and have failed since.

Geelong took 11 years after their successful period.

Richmond we are yet to see if their top up works, but they have had a lot more good draft picks than Hawthorn had or Geelong had.

BF experts would say its better to not win flags so you can load up on good draft picks. Because Carlton have done so well, and look at the way Melbourne managed to 1-peat.

 

[La Dispute]

We didnt win flags and then struggle ?

Clarko loaded up for a final tilt. It didnt work.

Brisbane tried it and have failed since.

Geelong took 11 years after their successful period.

Richmond we are yet to see if their top up works, but they have had a lot more good draft picks than Hawthorn had or Geelong had.

BF experts would say its better to not win flags so you can load up on good draft picks. Because Carlton have done so well, and look at the way Melbourne managed to 1-peat.

No it was even worse, you won flags, loaded up players from other clubs, then spent 6 years delaying the inevitable and didn’t even have one finals win to indicate it could have been a successful strategy.

Who is saying it’s better to hunt draft picks? The right answer is reading your list profile and adapting your list management strategy in line with the players you’ve got available. The reality is Hawthorn didn’t have the list to continue topping up and they are now going to pay for it.

It’s interesting though using the comparison of Carlton. We moved players on early on in the rebuild and without doing so we wouldn’t have McKay or Curnow. Hawthorn don’t have players they can easily trade away for decent compensation and effectively traded Mitchell and JOM (aka the centrepieces of their topping up strategy) for nothing.

They are just going to have to hope the young players they bring in go on to become quality players, because they don’t have a whole lot of draft capital at a time they could use some additional high end selections.

I would take Melbourne’s singular flag over flogging a dead horse, but I suspect they aren’t done yet.

 

[boncer34]

No it was even worse, you won flags, loaded up players from other clubs, then spent 6 years delaying the inevitable and didn’t even have one finals win to indicate it could have been a successful strategy.

Who is saying it’s better to hunt draft picks? The right answer is reading your list profile and adapting your list management strategy in line with the players you’ve got available. The reality is Hawthorn didn’t have the list to continue topping up and they are now going to pay for it.

It’s interesting though using the comparison of Carlton. We moved players on early on in the rebuild and without doing so we wouldn’t have McKay or Curnow. Hawthorn don’t have players they can easily trade away for decent compensation and effectively traded Mitchell and JOM (aka the centrepieces of their topping up strategy) for nothing.

They are just going to have to hope the young players they bring in go on to become quality players, because they don’t have a whole lot of draft capital at a time they could use some additional high end selections.

I would take Melbourne’s singular flag over flogging a dead horse, but I suspect they aren’t done yet.

Hawks fans point to clubs that have loaded up on picks and failed like its some sort of absolute proof.

What they've failed to understand is everyone knows top draft picks don't guarantee success, it's just incredibly hard to do it without them.

 

[La Dispute]

Hawks fans point to clubs that have loaded up on picks and failed like its some sort of absolute proof.

What they've failed to understand is everyone knows top draft picks don't guarantee success, it's just incredibly hard to do it without them.

Their own club loaded up on draft picks and won 4 flags.

The selective memory is incredible.

 

[Bradkli]

La Dispute Gavin Excell Scotland HODGEYROAD and other friends, I am happy to release some of my "gold" from this thread from the past few years if you give me the green light..

 

[mcnulty]

This is hard to fathom for mine. Sure our midfield was weak but overall I thought there were some promising signs there. And some young midfield talent that could develop over the next couple of years with more draft picks/FA.

But to jettison your two most experienced midfielders who can still play decent footy provide assistance to the current crop of kids for peanuts seems senseless to me. Sure they’re not going to get better as value for trades moving on- so keep them.

Poor old Amon must be wondering what the hell he’s got himself into.

 

[La Dispute]

La Dispute Gavin Excell Scotland HODGEYROAD and other friends, I am happy to release some of my "gold" from this thread from the past few years if you give me the green light..

Go for gold mate, anyone who has been following the thread knows you’ve been anticipating the drop for years.