Cannons' List Evaluation

[cannons]

In this thread, I'm going to evaluate Melbourne's list. Here's how it will work:

The measures that will be used to do this will be:

- current ability
- potential ability

Each player will receive a grade (A+, A, A-, B+ etc.) for these two categories.

In addition to this, trade value will also be considered for each player.

Reasoning for each decision will be provided to help generate some discussion about each specific rating.

This will be a gradual process, in that I will evaluate between 2-4 players each day. I feel this method will allow us all to contribute our thoughts on individual players and individual ratings rather than on the team collectively. It also means I can conduct an enhanced analysis of each player.

I will go through the list in alphabetical order, so the first players to be evaluated will be Clint Bartram and Matthew Bate.

I will begin tomorrow. I'm sure your anticipation is building with every waiting second

 

[The Dr]

Look forward to it mate!

 

[stabler]

Cannons, a good idea.

Might i suggest however, instead of using a grades system, give each player a ranking out of ten for each category. Much easier to follow and also for analysis.

 

[master bate]

In this thread, I'm going to evaluate Melbourne's list. Here's how it will work:

The measures that will be used to do this will be:

- current ability
- potential ability

Each player will receive a grade (A+, A, A-, B+ etc.) for these two categories.

Maybe a grade for the year and potential would be better markers, current ability is a tricky one.

For Bartram I'd go with B- for the year and B+ as potential. He will never be A grade but has all the defensive skills and despite having some bad games (skill errors a plenty) he managed to get through the season after missing last year. Also kicked a couple of goals, and still showed good defensive work with good tackling all year and a complete shut down of Leroy Jetta against the dons.

Bate I'd go with C and A-, he didn't back up his great year last year but still has the potential to be a very good player, he needs to work on his body, and should watch a lot of Rob Murphy for a role model in being a dangerous half forward.

 

[Bartram_Class]

Expulsion for Bartram on the basis of the grades he deserves.

 

[Flashhh]

...i've got a boner already Cannons.

 

[cannons]

Here's the first installment. Any suggestions regarding content etc. are welcome

@ master: Basically, current ability is formed based on past performance (mainly last year), and of course strengths and weaknesses.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Clint Bartram

Current Ability: C+
Clint played 21 matches this year, which was a strong return after his injury concerns in 2007. He averaged 13 disposals for the year which is quite a modest return, however it must be remembered he is primarily used in a negating role.

Strengths:
- Excellent Work Ethic
- Good Stamina
- Reasonable Pace
- Strong defensive game/skills

Weaknesses:
- Decision making
- Disposal

Potential Ability: B
I don’t think Clint will ever be a star of the competition; however he can be an important role player for Melbourne. He isn’t one of the club’s most talented players, so his scope for future development is somewhat limited.

What will help him is his work ethic. If Clint can improve upon his weaknesses, most notably his disposal, it will enable him to be more damaging himself rather than just cancelling out his opponent. This will add another dimension to his already strong defensive game.

It must also be said that he is always one to work hard throughout matches, regardless of the circumstances.

Trade Value: 3rd rounder

Next year looms as an important one for Bartram. He needs to improve his output in order to ensure a place on Melbourne’s list for 2010.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew Bate

Current Ability: B-
He missed the first 6 rounds with a hamstring injury. After his return in round 7, he played every game until round 21, missing the last match through omission. He averaged 17 disposals a game, which was a reasonable return.

Strengths:
- Kicking
- Marking
- Running Ability
- Good size
- Versatility

Weaknesses:
- Consistency

Potential Ability: A-
Bate presents with a lot of talent; he just needs to channel it more effectively. Given his interrupted preseason, he started behind the rest of the competition and had to battle through the season.

With further development, he could be one of our better players. He doesn't have any real areas of true deficiency; however one issue for Bate is consistency, as he fades in and out of games, and his form differs from week to week. This was exemplified by his strong performance against Essendon being followed up by an ineffectual effort against Geelong. He needs to attend to this area more than any other, and a full preseason will help him do this.

I also foresee a positional issue for him. Whilst he is versatile, it may be beneficial for him if he was stationed largely at one position on the ground, rather than rotating through the midfield and forward line. I think he’s an ideal HFF.

Trade Value: Early 2nd round, but Melbourne wouldn’t consider trading him at this point.

Overall, he has plenty of ability but lacks consistency at the moment. If he can transform from an enigmatic player into a consistent performer, he has every chance of becoming a top-tier player.

 

[festa1234]

excellent review looking forward 2 next installment good work

 

[whelan=legend]

Looking forward to the next installment too

Might also copy and paste each one into each players respective threads in 'The Change Rooms' so we can look back on it easier.

 

[booshboy]

not a bad assesment champ, who we got tomorrow?

 

[cannons]

not a bad assesment champ, who we got tomorrow?

Daniel Bell and Cameron Bruce.

@whelan=legend: Good idea regarding the change rooms

 

[Bartram_Class]

Too lenient on Bartram. Had a horrid year.

One decent game in Adelaide and that was it.

No room in football anymore for out and out taggers, you have to have something else to add to your bow. Bartram does not, has been tried forward and did nothing, has gone down back and coughs it up too often.

 

[cannons]

Too lenient on Bartram. Had a horrid year.

One decent game in Adelaide and that was it.

No room in football anymore for out and out taggers, you have to have something else to add to your bow. Bartram does not, has been tried forward and did nothing, has gone down back and coughs it up too often.

I did say he needs to work on his disposal to add another dimension to his game. In addition, I wrote that next year was an important one for him if we wants to remain at the club.

In essence, he was only a second year player this year after injury preventing him from playing last year. I think you have to remember that, and we can't expect him to set the world on fire just yet. On the other hand, he has probably stagnated a bit after his first year, so he'll have to work hard to improve his game.

I'll have the next installment up a bit later today

 

[cannons]

Daniel Bell

Current Ability: C+
Bell played 18 games this year, and had some injury concerns along the way. He averaged close to 15 disposals per match, which is a good return for a defender; however he didn’t maximise those possessions. He also averaged 2.5 clangers per match, although watching him made it feel like more on occasion.

Strengths:
- Tackling
- Defensive skills
- Size
- Pace
- Reasonably good kicking ability

Weaknesses:
- Awareness
- Decision making

On physical ability and skill alone, Bell would be in the B/B+ region, but his mentally-related weaknesses have such a resounding impact on his game that he is relegated to the C+ category.

Potential Ability: B+

He has been on the list for a while now, so in terms of physical development he is close to his peak. However, a strong preseason could enhance his stamina. This could help him gain a role in the midfield, which is something he aspires to.

The real area for concern is the mental side of his game. The interrelated weaknesses in his game (awareness and decision making) create major issues for him. If he can attend to these, he could form a key part of Melbourne’s defence for seasons to come. I don’t think these issues will ever be resolved completely, so that caps his potential ability at B+.

If he was strong in this area, he would be a very complete player across most aspects of the game.

Trade Value: Mid/Late 2nd rounder

If Bell is to establish himself as a vital cog in Melbourne’s defensive unit, he needs to improve upon his awareness and decision making greatly. He is one of the more proficient players on the list in terms of the fundamental skills of football though.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Cameron Bruce

Current Ability: B+
Bruce was the only Melbourne player to feature in all 22 home-and-away matches this season. He averaged 24 possessions this year with 75% efficiency, which was a strong effort. In saying that, his output was probably a little down on where it could have been.

Strengths:
- Ball winning
- Running ability
- Leadership
- Versatility

Weaknesses:
- Occasionally suspect kicking
- Physicality

Potential Ability: B+
Cameron’s career is drawing to a close, and there is little or no scope for improvement. This isn’t to say he can’t provide a vital contribution to the team over the next few seasons, as his ability is currently above that of most of the list.

He doesn’t win a lot of contested ball, but then again that isn’t his role. What is concerning is his use of the ball at times. He looked somewhat indecisive and probably handballed more often than he should have at times. If he can get his kicking efficiency back up to a more acceptable level then his contribution to the team will be enhanced greatly. This inefficiency may also be a symptom of playing within a young team trying to learn a new game plan.

His leadership and experience around the club is invaluable to our young and developing list.

Trade Value: Early 2nd rounder

Bruce has probably maximised his potential, but still has an important role to play at the club, particularly in a leadership sense. For next season, he should focus on getting his body right and improving upon his consistency/efficiency. He is still one of Melbourne’s better players.

 

[demonfan9]

Good thread cannons. Will be interesting to see the entire list, and who fits into the A, B & C categories.

 

[Barrie Vagg]

In this thread, I'm going to evaluate Melbourne's list. Here's how it will work:

The measures that will be used to do this will be:

- current ability
- potential ability

Each player will receive a grade (A+, A, A-, B+ etc.) for these two categories.

In addition to this, trade value will also be considered for each player.

Reasoning for each decision will be provided to help generate some discussion about each specific rating.

This will be a gradual process, in that I will evaluate between 2-4 players each day. I feel this method will allow us all to contribute our thoughts on individual players and individual ratings rather than on the team collectively. It also means I can conduct an enhanced analysis of each player.

I will go through the list in alphabetical order, so the first players to be evaluated will be Clint Bartram and Matthew Bate.

I will begin tomorrow. I'm sure your anticipation is building with every waiting second

Dear Cannons
Whilst i enjoy some of your work rating potential is a ludicrous notion. Potential to be what? an A grade player a good ordinary footballer what.
Just as an example Daniel Bell has A+ potential to be a depth player. It is a nonsense.
Fond Regards

 

[master bate]

Daniel Bell

The real area for concern is the mental side of his game. The interrelated weaknesses in his game (awareness and decision making) create major issues for him. If he can attend to these, he could form a key part of Melbourne’s defence for seasons to come. I don’t think these issues will ever be resolved completely, so that caps his potential ability at B+.

If he was strong in this area, he would be a very complete player across most aspects of the game.

Trade Value: Mid/Late 2nd rounder

If Bell is to establish himself as a vital cog in Melbourne’s defensive unit, he needs to improve upon his awareness and decision making greatly. He is one of the more proficient players on the list in terms of the fundamental skills of football though.

Can't argue too much on what you've said on Bruce and Bell but I'd argue that awareness and decision making are fundamental skills of football, and I think you have the complete wrong terminology when calling these areas the mental side of the game.

 

[cannons]

Dear Cannons
Whilst i enjoy some of your work rating potential is a ludicrous notion. Potential to be what? an A grade player a good ordinary footballer what.
Just as an example Daniel Bell has A+ potential to be a depth player. It is a nonsense.
Fond Regards

Potential relates to how good a player can be at AFL level. There is no need to complicate things any further than that. I thought that was pretty obvious without having to add another layer of analysis to it.
Fond Regards

Can't argue too much on what you've said on Bruce and Bell but I'd argue that awareness and decision making are fundamental skills of football, and I think you have the complete wrong terminology when calling these areas the mental side of the game.

Awareness and decision making are totally mental. They relate to how one's mind processes its environment, and then responds to it. Every action in football stems from a mental response.

I refer to fundamental skills as kicking, tackling, handpassing, marking etc. To me, these are the primary facets of the game. I can understand your argument relating to awareness and decision making though, as they are also vital elements.

I'm impressed to see some discussion about the definition of terms, it lives up to the stereotype of Melbourne fans being the intellectuals within the community

 

[dee-molishon]

Good job cannons

Im going to have to agrue some points with you though but you would be used to it by now surely.

Bell - mid to late second rounder?? you have to be kidding, if we were offered that i say sold.

Bruce - you put occasional kicking problems. Id say its more 50-50 now days weather he sprays them (kicks over 30metres, kicks that damge the opposition not the chip pass crap) or not and this is something he will never improve. You also put down leadership as a strength, as far as im concerned bruce is not a leader in the slightest.
Id actually put that down as one of his weakness', the fact Bailey made him captain i think is irrelevant it was just the fact he probaley has the best track record and highest profile on an otherwise fragile list.
Again an early second rounder for him id jump at the chance to trade him.

Very good thread though cannons, finding it very interesting.

 

[Bartram_Class]

If anyone gets an A for current ability I'm coming after you Cannons.

 

[Dez!]

If anyone gets an A for current ability I'm coming after you Cannons.

Brock is worthy of an A for current ability in my opinion.

Garland and Martin are worthy of A's for potential based on what they have shown so far, hell they should be close to A's for current ability based on what we have already seen of them.

 

[cannons]

Good job cannons

Im going to have to agrue some points with you though but you would be used to it by now surely.

Bell - mid to late second rounder?? you have to be kidding, if we were offered that i say sold.

Bruce - you put occasional kicking problems. Id say its more 50-50 now days weather he sprays them (kicks over 30metres, kicks that damge the opposition not the chip pass crap) or not and this is something he will never improve. You also put down leadership as a strength, as far as im concerned bruce is not a leader in the slightest.
Id actually put that down as one of his weakness', the fact Bailey made him captain i think is irrelevant it was just the fact he probaley has the best track record and highest profile on an otherwise fragile list.
Again an early second rounder for him id jump at the chance to trade him.

Very good thread though cannons, finding it very interesting.

Fair and valid points, and I don't totally disagree in some respects.

On Bell, I think he has a lot of ability, and if he can improve on those weaknesses I mentioned he could be a very good player. He's a solid body, good defensively, quick and has solid skills. I don't think its unreasonable to ask for a pick in the late 20's to early 30's for Bell.

On Bruce, I think his leadership is important. We have such a young list and not many players have the ability to set an example at the moment. I will say that he needs to lead by example on the field a little better than he currently does though. So from that viewpoint I agree, but to call it a weakness would be excessive. His experience can also help around the club too.

I think an early 2nd rounder would be adequate for Bruce at this point. I think some on this board are overly-critical of him, but I guess that's due to the fact we expect a lot from him being one of our few senior players. I also agree with your assessment of his kicking, he struggled with it this year.

Thanks for the positive feedback

If anyone gets an A for current ability I'm coming after you Cannons.

You'll have to wait and see

At this point maybe McLean could receive an A and Green might be pressing for one too.

 

[Bartram_Class]

What a joke then.

Judd, Mitchell, Pavlich, Riewoldt etc. are A/A*'s.

McLean is not one of them.

 

[dee-molishon]

What a joke then.

Judd, Mitchell, Pavlich, Riewoldt etc. are A/A*'s.

McLean is not one of them.

Your the joke then.

McLean is easily the equal of Mitchell, Mitchell has the support to help him Brock doesnt.

 

[Beats]

On Bruce, I think his leadership is important. We have such a young list and not many players have the ability to set an example at the moment. I will say that he needs to lead by example on the field a little better than he currently does though. So from that viewpoint I agree, but to call it a weakness would be excessive. His experience can also help around the club too.

I think the word you should be using is experience, Bruce is not a leader, he has experience and is a good role model but he does not have leadership capacity.