Carlton

[HFF]

^^^ RM

Nathan Brown would be first choice FB. His finals series last year was exceptional and did the job on a number of power forwards.

Chris Tarrant was initially bought into play multiple roles i.e. horses for courses. Taz can play tall or small and as seen in his first stint with Colingwood as a forward. Yesterday, he was magnificent when he stood a tall like Thornton or a small like Betts.

This is how the Pies had envisaged the use of Tarrant, however circumstances changed that with Brown's season ending injury.

 

[jonbe54]

16 goals and 12 assists. He plays further up the field.

I have already explained why I believe the absence of Waite and more importantly an adequate replacement exacerbated our inefficient disposal and forward deliveries. Structurally he is a required player, unlike Brown or Dawes whose roles can be covered for Collingwood.

Carlton's main issue yesterday was delivery inside 50 and efficient ball movement. Both come down to a collapse in our forward-line structure. Will this be fixed come finals time? I hope so, but I also hope that the club is looking at recruiting more depth in this region.

Just re read the part of the post I've bolded B&S

What you in effect admitted was that we can cover a premiership KPF and FB easily while you couldn't cover Waite.

That is call DEPTH.

And its achieved through recuriting substance over style.

You got it right in your last sentence - you need more depth.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Carlton are starting to see the cost of recruiting Chris Judd....with Kennedy sacrificed they have nobody to kick to.

 

[Rioli magic]

23. Would have to force Tarrant Dawes or Brown out to get a game. Thats assuming absolutely zero injuries which rarely occurs.

Nice problem, huh?

^^^ RM

Nathan Brown would be first choice FB. His finals series last year was exceptional and did the job on a number of power forwards.

Chris Tarrant was initially bought into play multiple roles i.e. horses for courses. Taz can play tall or small and as seen in his first stint with Colingwood as a forward. Yesterday, he was magnificent when he stood a tall like Thornton or a small like Betts.

This is how the Pies had envisaged the use of Tarrant, however circumstances changed that with Brown's season ending injury.

It's not a criticism, I'm just not sure he is in your best 21, and I can't see who makes way from that team I posted. I think he's a better player than someone like L.Brown, but Leroy plays a role that is needed. IMO he's probably a depth player this season.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Tarrant was recruited as a versatile depth player but he took Browns spot by default.......they never had the opportunity to fight each other for the fullback spot left open by Presti. We'll never know who would have lined up in Round 1. Its an irrelevant moot point anyway. Brown like many of his teammates is still young.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Just re read the part of the post I've bolded B&S

What you in effect admitted was that we can cover a premiership KPF and FB easily while you couldn't cover Waite.

That is call DEPTH.

And its achieved through recuriting substance over style.

You got it right in your last sentence - you need more depth.

Yeah that's my point. Nathan Brown (who was ok until his fantastic finals) goes down but you have Tarrant. Waite goes down, Henderson has to be used in defence and O'halpin isn't available. Our entire tall forward division there.

This wasn't ever going to be our year (despite myself I did get caught up in thee prospect). Next year is our first big shot.

 

[TylerDurden]

Dons will do em next week. Bookmark it..

 

[doppleganger]

It's not a criticism, I'm just not sure he is in your best 21, and I can't see who makes way from that team I posted. I think he's a better player than someone like L.Brown, but Leroy plays a role that is needed. IMO he's probably a depth player this season.

N.Brown was our premiership FB who just blanketed Roo in the two biggest games of the year.

He was our FB....then he did his knee.

It is laughable that for some reason Collingwood are not allowed to use injuries to guys like N.Brown when Hawthorn supporters rattle off Renouf, Schoenmakers, Gilham, Ellis as reasons why you guys are doing it tough.

N.Brown was best 22 and then was injured, just clever recruiting from Collingwood that we picked up Taz as a cover for all KP spots.

N.Brown, H.Shaw, Dawes, Didak and Beams are best 22 when fit.

Macaffer is one who has been out all year with injury, although he is debatable if he would get in the team now with Krak, Blair, Sidebottom etc competing for a place.

 

[Zahki]

Nathan Brown is our first choice fullback when he's fit. We were lucky we had Tarrant to fill the gap but Browns loss is still a big one.

 

[South of the Yarra]

I actually cannot believe Carlton could not beat us yesterday. They had everything to play for including a rare win against a top 8 side and a place in the top 4. They had a point to prove. We had nothing to play for.
Collingwood had a tough week off the field and were emotionally drained.
We had a second gamer, third gamer and fourth gamer playing for us. We were missing Didak, Beames, Dawes, Brown, Mcaffer and Shaw. We had Jolley and Johnson both coming back from long term injuries and still weeks away from finding form. We copped the most atrocious umpiring especially in the first half where at one stage the free kick count was 14 to 4. We kicked inaccurately and yet Carlton still could not finish within 3 goals. Yesterday was a magnificent win to Collingwood under the circumstances. Carlton are simply just not good enough.

 

[Rioli magic]

N.Brown was our premiership FB who just blanketed Roo in the two biggest games of the year.

He was our FB....then he did his knee.

I'm aware of what happened, that's not what I'm asking.

It is laughable that for some reason Collingwood are not allowed to use injuries to guys like N.Brown when Hawthorn supporters rattle off Renouf, Schoenmakers, Gilham, Ellis as reasons why you guys are doing it tough.

Hawthorn has nothing to do with what I'm asking don't be so childish, I'm asking a genuine question that is yet to be answered. If Brown is in the best 21 (which seems unanimous) who are the other 20 with him, and who are the depth players at Collingwood?

N.Brown was best 22 and then was injured, just clever recruiting from Collingwood that we picked up Taz as a cover for all KP spots.

N.Brown, H.Shaw, Dawes, Didak and Beams are best 22 when fit.

Maybe you could just post your best 21 team to make it a bit easier? You can even brag about your depth with who you leave out if you like.

 

[Rohan25]

Yes Carlton had guys like Watson yesterday who are in no way up to this level of football yet and probably won't be a first choice player come September, but it's equally hard to picture Collingwood playing a final with guys like Keefe, Rounds, and even Fasolo running around.

I'm quite satisfied that against a team that is being touted as a top 4 contender we won every quarter, and led for the whole match while playing young guys like that in their 2nd, 3rd and 4th games respectively. It's great experience for them.

 

[doppleganger]

I'm aware of what happened, that's not what I'm asking.

If you are aware then it is a strange question.

Our premiership FB did his knee and is out for the season, if fit N.Brown is our FB.

If Brown is in the best 21 (which seems unanimous) who are the other 20 with him, and who are the depth players at Collingwood?

Maybe you could just post your best 21 team to make it a bit easier? You can even brag about your depth with who you leave out if you like.

As I mentioned it is hard to actually predict which way they would have gone with Tarrant if N.Brown was available.

Would Taz be a forward, replacing Macaffer's lead up role?
Would Harry/H.Shaw be pushed further up the ground, to enable Taz to slip into a versatile defender's role?
Could Reid be used as a tall wingman type player?
Would Leon have been given the opportunity down back?

When a key structural player goes down, ie N.Brown, you make adjustments....it is only speculation as to what our team make up would be like.

One thing for certain is that if N.Brown wasn't injured he would have been our FB.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Maxwell - Tarrant - Toovey
Davis - Reid - O'Brien

Who would Brown replace?

Shaw and Brown go in there.
Tarrant and O'Brien move up the ground as it was intended during the pre-season.
O'Brien played NAB cup on a wing
Tarrant was going to be used as a 'swingman'

 

[Rioli magic]

One thing for certain is that if N.Brown wasn't injured he would have been our FB.

Yeah that seems to be the consensus, I had it wrong and Brown is your 1st choice full back. Still not sure why you can't form an opinion on the rest of the team, it's a pretty simple question - Who do you think is your best 21 with everyone available?

 

[Zahki]

Hawthorn has nothing to do with what I'm asking don't be so childish, I'm asking a genuine question that is yet to be answered. If Brown is in the best 21 (which seems unanimous) who are the other 20 with him, and who are the depth players at Collingwood?

A better question is who does Tarrant replace. Brown is the first choice, Tarrant is the depth, had Brown not gotten injured then it would be Tarrant fighting for his spot in the side, not Brown.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Yeah that seems to be the consensus, I had it wrong and Brown is your 1st choice full back. Still not sure why you can't form an opinion on the rest of the team, it's a pretty simple question - Who do you think is your best 21 with everyone available?

Good question

I think Davis, Tarrant and Krak come into the GF side
Drop out Goldy, Blair and Macaffer from that side.

But I guess others will have different permutations

 

[doppleganger]

Yeah that seems to be the consensus, I had it wrong and Brown is your 1st choice full back. Still not sure why you can't form an opinion on the rest of the team, it's a pretty simple question - Who do you think is your best 21 with everyone available?

I will give you my team......but this may not be the coaching staff's best 22.

I have highlighted the 5 in's from the team that played Carlton

Keefe, Rounds, Fasolo, McCarthy and Blair make way.

FB - Maxwell, N.Brown, Toovey
HB - Tarrant, Reid, H.Shaw
C - O'Brien, L.Ball, Thomas
HF - Didak, Dawes, Beams
F - Krak, Cloke, Sidebottom
Foll - Jolly, Pendles, Swan

Int - B.Johnson, L.Brown, Wellingham, L.Davis

I think Harry would make a great wingman, he is susceptible under the high ball....and Taz can play his defensive role much better, letting Harry roam around the ground he could cause some damage.

Very harsh on Blair...but id go with Krak.

Macaffer is the one unknown, the coach loves him and he was great in the second half of 2010.

Also no idea who the sub would be, would be a horses for courses type thing and Taz himself may be the sub due to his versatility.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Still not sure why you can't form an opinion on the rest of the team, it's a pretty simple question - Who do you think is your best 21 with everyone available?

Its not a simple question at all. Its quite a difficult question actually,we have 25-26 who easily have claims to be in our best 22 and another 3-4 who wouldnt look out of place out there.

Why dont you start a thread about it?

This threads about Carlton.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I will give you my team......but this may not be the coaching staff's best 22.

I have highlighted the 5 in's from the team that played Carlton

Keefe, Rounds, Fasolo, McCarthy and Blair make way.

FB - Maxwell, N.Brown, Toovey
HB - Tarrant, Reid, H.Shaw
C - O'Brien, L.Ball, Thomas
HF - Didak, Dawes, Beams
F - Krak, Cloke, Sidebottom
Foll - Jolly, Pendles, Swan

Int - B.Johnson, L.Brown, Wellingham, L.Davis

I think Harry would make a great wingman, he is susceptible under the high ball....and Taz can play his defensive role much better, letting Harry roam around the ground he could cause some damage.

Very harsh on Blair...but id go with Krak.

Macaffer is the one unknown, the coach loves him and he was great in the second half of 2010.

Also no idea who the sub would be, would be a horses for courses type thing and Taz himself may be the sub due to his versatility.

Gee that is a very powerful looking side

 

[Silvagnis]

Carlton showed that its midfield is every bit as good as Collingwood - most teams would kill for Judd and Murphy. However, their forward line is a worry, with Waite and Jamieson's absence (Henderson must play back) forcing a strategy of playing Kreuzer forward and hoping the smalls get enough crumbs.

Will this strategy work against the very best full-backs who will outmark Kreuze, denying crumbs? Hendo isn't good enough to play against the gorillas, although besides Cloke there aren't too many around. Does he enough strength to out-wrestle Hurley?

Henderson is big enough to play on Hurley, but Cloke has three years on him.

Lachie played well as a lead up CHF against Hurley last year.

The undersized Simon White played on Hurley this year to get in the AFLCA votes.

Our forward structure been running on four cylinders with just Waite and rucks down there for nearly all the year. At the moment, Henderson isn't a stand and deliver contested marking forward, but he is vital to our structure with his lead up marking through the middle. Henderson, Russell and Kreuzer haven't recaptured their 2010 form due to interrupted pre-seasons. Preparation is everything if you want your best players to run out the year. This year was the first time that Jamison and Walker have completed a full pre-season. Murphy's 2010 was down due to having a hip op in January.

The biggest hole is at CHB, not CHF.

Watson is as raw as another manchild in Josh Kennedy who looked lost in his first two seasons.

Our best 22 would include Hampson, Lucas, Waite, Russell and Jamison. Hampson and Kreuzer was the best ruck pairing we've had this year. Hampson plays with more intensity than Warnock. Lucas suits our spread with his pace and clean ball handling. I don't rate Ellard who hasn't fired a shot against the better sides. Plays with a lot of heart, but doesn't have enough tricks and size. Mclean doesn't spread like Ellard and we need him to, but he's still a smarter footballer and better ballwinner (and user) than Ellard.

 

[jonoman89]

All this talk about comparing each teams injuries is irrelevant.

Carlton have terrible depth in KPP stocks, and as soon as our best players go down we have no decent cover. Collingwood however have very good cover in most positions.

Is it our fault for not having good KPP depth? Yes, of course.

But it's ridiculous to suggest that Collingwood has the same structual difficulties as Carlton at the moment. Nowhere near it.

 

[doppleganger]

But it's ridiculous to suggest that Collingwood has the same structual difficulties as Carlton at the moment. Nowhere near it.

You are missing your FB and CHF........so were we.

We were also missing an AA quality HBF (H.Shaw), an AA HFF (Didak) and Beams.

Collingwood's outs were more significant than Carlton's....yet Carlton supporters are trying to use injuries as an excuse.

 

[jonoman89]

You are missing your FB and CHF........so were we.

We were also missing an AA quality HBF (H.Shaw), an AA HFF (Didak) and Beams.

Collingwood's outs were more significant than Carlton's....yet Carlton supporters are trying to use injuries as an excuse.

Here we go again.

We cannot cover Jamison and Waite. We have NO ONE capable of playing those roles, because we have terrible depth in those areas. Collingwood can cover Dawes and Brown, and have done so easily.

We can cover Carrazzo and Hampson though.

Excuse? **** no, we could have won yesterday and should have. I'm disappointed wth the effort.

 

[Rioli magic]

I will give you my team.....
FB - Maxwell, N.Brown, Toovey
HB - Tarrant, Reid, H.Shaw
C - O'Brien, L.Ball, Thomas
HF - Didak, Dawes, Beams
F - Krak, Cloke, Sidebottom
Foll - Jolly, Pendles, Swan

Int - B.Johnson, L.Brown, Wellingham, L.Davis

You're never going to have everyone available, so obviously depth plays a big part in a team's fortunes and why Collingwood's gap is increased on challengers like Carlton as the season progresses. Best 21 (+coaching and fitness) Collingwood already have an edge, best 28 that gap widens. It's a competition between teams best 28 or so players over the season, I just wasn't sure if Brown would be in 21 with all available.

That team is pretty similiar to what I had, although I only put in 21 with Blair instead of Krak (coin toss), Shaw and O'Brien swapped positions and N.Brown the one I had missing out.

B: Toovey - Tarrant - Maxwell
HB: O'Brien - Reid - Davis
C: Shaw - Ball - Thomas
HF: Sidebottom - Cloke - Didak
F: Beams - Dawes - Blair
R: Jolly - Swan - Pendlebury
I/C: Wellingham - L.Brown - Johnson