Hawks beat West Coast.
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Carlton
- Thread starter Paul Kersey
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Big Kahuna Boot
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- Aug 17, 2009
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..and lost to crows..
..we beat sydney twice, who beat you at home..
..we've beaten better teams than richmond..
TommyAlvinsWig
Team Captain
But lost to Adelaide
Though in Big Footy speak it seems ok if you lose to rubbish sides, as long as you beat sides above you.
I like how West Coast are considered a team to beat because they beat us, but if we beat them it would be considered we haven't beaten anyone.
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Carlton has only beaten 1 team in the top 8. Hawthorn has beaten 4 teams in the top 8.
TommyAlvinsWig
Team Captain
And they've lost to more teams in the bottom 9, whilst Carlton have only lost to one team that Hawthorn has beaten.
I love these Bigfooty logic games, let's keep playing. I'm sure some other game stats can be moulded to prove a point if we keep trying.
And they've lost to more teams in the bottom 9, whilst Carlton have only lost to one team that Hawthorn has beaten.
I love these Bigfooty logic games, let's keep playing. I'm sure some other game stats can be moulded to prove a point if we keep trying.
Don't take this the wrong way, but losing to teams who are going to present themselves as threats in the finals is much worse than rolling in with some low losses to teams not even close to playing finals.
Not downplaying where Carlton are at currently, but a top 4 scalp would look good heading into the finals, and hawthorn are looking for one too, could Carl V Haw decide who might be the biggest threat to the top 2 come september?
I am giving these stats because of this post. This has nothing to do with the crap teams Hawthorn loses to.
But West Coast are only considered good because they beat us. Still no one above them, which is the only way you can be truthfully seen as a good side, like Essendon.
I do agree, we are 3rd because we are not as good as the top 2, doesn't mean we are crap. It has been mentioned before that Hawthorn lost to all other top 4 sides in 08 and turned the tables on them in the finals.
I think as long as your not being blown off the park everytime you play a top side, it doesn't mean you are pretenders/rubbish or whatever. Our losses have shown me that we are a very good side, but not yet a Collingwood/Geelong-esque great one who can grind wins week in week out against all opposition.
However me and many others wanted us to make a move into the top 4 this year, so the fact we are even discussing if we are a premiership threat is a fine achievement.
Big Kahuna Boot
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..so far this season both teams have played 6 games vs current top 8 teams.. hawks have won 3, lost 3.. ..blues have won 2, 1 draw, lost 3.. ..have yet to play vs eachother.. ..in regards to games vs top 4, neither team has a win.. ..not a whole lot different in regards to win/losses..
Hawthorn has beaten West Coast, Fremantle, Essendon and Sydney. Carlton has only beaten Sydney.
But beaten Sydney twice. We haven't played Freo, and we drew with Essendon when they were going a fair bit better than they were last week.
What does this all mean? Nothing, you could argue Hawthorn played against an Adelaide better than anyone else has faced too.
Big Kahuna Boot
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- Aug 17, 2009
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..we haven't played freo, and drew with the bombres.. ..are you being deliberately facetious..?..
TommyAlvinsWig
Team Captain
Indeed, will be one of the biggest games for both teams heading into finals.
No arguments there on your first point either, aside from the fact that I was merely responding to the common BF fallacy, using a limited and abstract stat to prove a far more complex point.
West Coast are a good team and will be a threat for the finals, but if we play them again I think we'll put in a decent scrap. Last week's performance seemed a bit lacklustre, but I credit that to the Eagles pressure which put the Blues on the back foot immediately - hopefully they've learnt from that.
Pies and Cats are another story, but they are the current benchmarks. Only lost to three teams in the 8, and two of them are the prime contenders. TBH, despite last night I don't think the Bombers present much of a threat to Carlton, so not worried about drawing with them. Will hopefully be corrected in a few rounds time.
The reality is Carlton and Hawthorn's form have been fairly comparable this year, as evidenced by ladder position. Both teams have had their share of injuries like most teams, Hawks have certainly felt it in defence, Blues have had a few key players in and out of the team over the season - just the nature of the game.
Outside of the Cats and Pies supporters, Bigfooty logic in 2011 seems to be seperated into 2 schools of thought:
A) "My team beat Carlton. Carlton are a top 4 team, it was a great effort for us to beat them."
or:
B) "Carlton beat us, but they aren't really a top 4 team. They haven't beat enough clubs in the top 8."
A) "My team beat Carlton. Carlton are a top 4 team, it was a great effort for us to beat them."
or:
B) "Carlton beat us, but they aren't really a top 4 team. They haven't beat enough clubs in the top 8."
carl need a genuine scalp in a big game to be considered a serious threat. they get their chance in 2 weeks. collingwood, on a sat arvo at the g, crowd of about 90,000 in attendance. they were embarassed on a sat arvo v the pies about the same time last year, let's see how much they've improved
Jamison's injury has proven to be a blessing in disguise. We have found a CHB in Henderson. Carlton are significantly better than the early parts of this season. Last week against WCE Carlton had half their onfield side out so a loss was expected. The Blues need to prove themselves. Beating Collingwood without Jamison will be a challenge but a loss would mean very little unless it costs a top 4 spot. It's all about finishing top 4 and haveing form and fittness and players avaliable come finals.
You need your best players on the park to beat top 5 sides. This is Carlton's challenge and I feel by finals time Carlton will make a statement.
You need your best players on the park to beat top 5 sides. This is Carlton's challenge and I feel by finals time Carlton will make a statement.
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Geez, another massive loss looming for Carlton. Next two weeks are Collingwood and Essendon. Could be the nail in the coffin top 4 wise?
Really the Pies are a fair way ahead of the rest at the moment. Far from unbeatable though.
As long as Ratten is in the coaches box they aint winning no flag.
As long as Ratten is in the coaches box they aint winning no flag.
Once again losing a game that they should win, especially if they want to be a finals threat.
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Hadn't realised this.
That's a terrible stat.
No question if they can't beat another top 8 side before the finals then they're sh!te.
But if they make top 4 they'll have to have some wins against top 8 sides.
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Yep, this loss spells the end for our top 4 hopes.
On the brightside we'll probably end up with a home final first up.
On the brightside we'll probably end up with a home final first up.
Essendon Vs Carlton MCG 8th vs 5th :O
One can dream....
One can dream....
