Centrelink debt notices - Turnbull govt reaches new levels of arse clown-ness

[Belnakor]

But that won't work either. I just realised there is another data comparison flaw in the system.

Centrelink requires that you report income when you earn it, not when you are paid. Employers at some stage report when they pay an employee not when the employee earns it.

lol ok they are stuffed then.

I would have thought this kind of s**t was pretty obvious to someone who knows the system... i wonder who actually built the scripts to send the letters.

I would have also thought prorata of anything like this was pretty dangerous too many exceptions and edge cases.

As someone mentioned before, i don't think there is anything inherently wrong with sending a letter saying "we think you owe this because of this - please respond within 60 days" and then have correct systems set up. Referring it to a debt collection agency is just dumb. Those guys are genuine parasites. But Mr Porter is a good old Western Suburbs boy who never even heard of a debt collection agency (amazing considering his old man went guts up in the 90s)

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Even that won't work. Centrelink reporting is fortnightly, so employers would need to report fortnightly to the ATO.

But that won't work either. I just realised there is another data comparison flaw in the system.

Centrelink requires that you report income when you earn it, not when you are paid. Employers at some stage report when they pay an employee not when the employee earns it.

So lets say a Newstart person finds some casual work, and say earns $500 in fortnight 1 (FN1), nothing in FN2, $800 in FN3 and nothing in FN 4 and FN 5.

But their employer doesn't pay them on the spot - it has to be processed. Their employer then pays nothing in FN1, $300 in FN2, nothing in FN3 or FN 4 (they are slack processing the casual pay) and $800 in FB 5.

As you can see, the Centrelink data from the employee and the ATO data from the employer will never marry up, creating a false debt.

You'd hope they're also using the dates of employment from group certificates to then work out the average pay in that period. It seems odd that so many people have seemingly been effected erroneously, so maybe they weren't even that smart.

Or maybe it mostly picked on young people and part timers - because it's hard to imagine scenarios where people go from earning nothing, to earning so much that their Centrelink is being overpaid in the hundreds or thousands of dollars. That in itself should have been a huge warning bell to them that they'd got it wrong.

The thing is that you have to report your bank account to Centrelink, and I've heard of people being accused of being de facto, and one case where they were de facto and had to pay money back. Presumably in that case a computer has highlighted that two people are giving the same home address, so could be living together, and I'm pretty sure I heard that they showed comparative bank accounts to accuse the couple I knew of being de facto. A quick check online suggests Centrelink can ask for bank account details from a bank if they suspect welfare fraud.

So why didn't they let the computer program highlight potential problem candidates and then get bank statements to see when they were paid? It could've revealed actual problems, and potentially found others (if someone had undeclared deposits). Additionally if the process revealed that most people were doing the right thing, but were ramping up their income quickly, they could've introduced a policy to claw some money back if someone in a high-paying field gets a decent-paying job shortly after being on welfare.

But of course, we know the Liberals haven't had a decent policy for over a decade and aren't smart enough to see how small changes add up to get us back towards surplus (e.g. Labor's negative gearing changes).

 

[JCHolmes]

oh man former employee at my work was wanting hardcopy payslips from 2010, literally 6 months before we destroy this ''data'' in line with government time frames. The government basically said you owe us money, with little proof or transparency, the onus is on yourself to prove your innocent. The whole thing was really s**t. This lady, low income earner and carer was basically put through months of anguish and the ''payments will not only be cut off but you owe thousands of dollars etc''. She was shitting herself and second guessing her actions, it takes sometimes weeks to get certain off site data back in (the docs that would help her) and when she told the kooks there about the timing issues she wasn't allowed an extension. They can GAGF the lot of em, people will soon be hitting the ''* it'' button in the coming elections, just like the US.

 

[GreyCrow]

I wonder , if the phone conversation I had is correct, that when C/L start deducting money from payments that they don't include the interest sent to D&B.

 

[Upgrayedd]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-...-ordered-not-to-process-debt-disputes/8177652

Centrelink management has ordered frontline staff working in branches not to process disputes over the Federal Government's controversial debt claw-back scheme and instead refer welfare recipients to an online portal.

When do the Riots start?

 

[igon value]

I get the feeling this is all part of a plan to privatise Centrelink.

 

[Dry Rot]

One or both of Tudge or Porter will lose their job over this. Probably Tudge.

Bookmark it.

 

[GreyCrow]

One or both of Tudge or Porter will lose their job over this. Probably Tudge.

Bookmark it.

May as well. Mal has to do some shuffling and it makes it better for Ley if she has company

 

[JackOutback]

Tudge; they have high hopes for Porter.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Gut the ATO so they can't catch actual cheats, chase the poorest with fake invoices and debt collectors. Absolute campaigners.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Tudge; they have high hopes for Porter.

The big bookies will be be spewing if Tudgey gets booted out of cabinet.

They've spent all that money wining and dining him to ensure he doesn't go too hard with O'Farrell Review recommendations.

They'll have to start again. Lucky they now have weasel Conroy.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Gut the ATO so they can't catch actual cheats, chase the poorest with fake invoices and debt collectors. Absolute campaigners.

lol, as a side note, with regards to the ATO.

I seem to remember 10 or 15 years ago, someone was on trial for importing/selling, I think heroin. At some stage of the trial the ATO stuck their noses in and slapped the defendant with a tax bill for all the ill gotten money made from the drugs. The defendant who was going down then countered them with a tax write off. Said he's been ripped off in a big drug deal of around $20 or 30 million and wanted to claim the loss. I'm pretty sure he won.

 

[madmug]

lol, as a side note, with regards to the ATO.

I seem to remember 10 or 15 years ago, someone was on trial for importing/selling, I think heroin. At some stage of the trial the ATO stuck their noses in and slapped the defendant with a tax bill for all the ill gotten money made from the drugs. The defendant who was going down then countered them with a tax write off. Said he's been ripped off in a big drug deal of around $20 or 30 million and wanted to claim the loss. I'm pretty sure he won.

The important half use to work in Tax. Said ATO dont care where the income is from, they just want the tax paid. Thats the ATOs job. Get the money & dont care how its earned. Illegalities are the polices problem.

 

[Nikita Blue]

Hey Malcolm where the bloody hell are you?

 

[JackOutback]

Hey Malcolm where the bloody hell are you?

Probably round Sussan Ley's place, trying to convince her to quit quietly. Awfully inconvenient having two massive * ups at the same time.

 

[NSWCROW]

Probably round Sussan Ley's place, trying to convince her to quit quietly. Awfully inconvenient having two massive **** ups at the same time.

Putting out fires lit by a coward

 

[Lebbo73]

Probably round Sussan Ley's place, trying to convince her to quit quietly. Awfully inconvenient having two massive **** ups at the same time.

What was the second *up?

 

[GreyCrow]

Probably round Sussan Ley's place, trying to convince her to quit quietly. Awfully inconvenient having two massive **** ups at the same time.

Well done Nostradamus

 

[JackOutback]

What was the second ****up?

Something about Centrelink; the purpose of this thread,

 

[Lebbo73]

Something about Centrelink; the purpose of this thread,

You kind of forget when the thread goes off topic.

 

[radiojake]

Centrelink requires that you report income when you earn it, not when you are paid. Employers at some stage report when they pay an employee not when the employee earns it.

I know there were plenty of times when I was on centrelink where I picked up extra work during a particular fortnight, reported it as I was supposed to, but then got next to nothing in c-link payments because I'd have earnt too much in that period...

but then usually what would happen is it would take a week or two to actually get paid for that work and there would be a week where I'd have less money than if I didn't work and got c-link money instead

surely it would make more sense to claim the earnings as you actually get paid for it...

 

[JCHolmes]

oh man former employee at my work was wanting hardcopy payslips from 2010, literally 6 months before we destroy this ''data'' in line with government time frames. The government basically said you owe us money, with little proof or transparency, the onus is on yourself to prove your innocent. The whole thing was really s**t. This lady, low income earner and carer was basically put through months of anguish and the ''payments will not only be cut off but you owe thousands of dollars etc''. She was shitting herself and second guessing her actions, it takes sometimes weeks to get certain off site data back in (the docs that would help her) and when she told the kooks there about the timing issues she wasn't allowed an extension. They can GAGF the lot of em, people will soon be hitting the ''**** it'' button in the coming elections, just like the US.

Regarding the above (quoting myself here), the thing is centrelink was claiming the group certificates i sent her, and she then sent to them, were wrong and nothing more, like it was up to you to find the mistake/discrepancy/$ amount in individual payslips from 2010 or just pay the amount they said you owed. That would mean the ATO is wrong as well, (ato isn't wrong and neither are we) it would also mean there is little to no communication between these federal departments.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

I know there were plenty of times when I was on centrelink where I picked up extra work during a particular fortnight, reported it as I was supposed to, but then got next to nothing in c-link payments because I'd have earnt too much in that period...

but then usually what would happen is it would take a week or two to actually get paid for that work and there would be a week where I'd have less money than if I didn't work and got c-link money instead

surely it would make more sense to claim the earnings as you actually get paid for it...

It would be too exploitable. You just ask to be paid in a month so you get 2 chunks of Centrelink in beforehand as well. If someone is so skint and lacks a way to access a brief bridging loan (whether friends/family or credit card), then I think they could make a special case. They could always just lie and when the funds are back up point out an error was made and repay it. Of course there's risk in that strategy if they aren't good at budgeting or are already in the hole, but I'm pretty sure Centrelink or maybe some charities offer budgeting courses.

 

[RW]

I don't mind the concept of checking and chasing overpayments.

I have an issue at the timing. In December and by the time you try to resolve it the offices aren't open.
I also have an issue with the automatic debt recovery system set up. Give people 3 months to sort it not 21 days.

Spot on. The ATO has been using an automatic debt recovery system for a while, I had a client get a letter that her overdue tax debt had been referred to a collection agency, when the "overdue debt" was a PAYG instalment that she hadn't paid because she knew she was going to get a refund when she did her tax return, so the end result was just wasted time. This is not how the system is supposed to work. Apart from that, I don't have an issue with seeking to recover overpayments per se, but it's incredibly poor to go about it the way they have.

 

[Rob]

lol, as a side note, with regards to the ATO.

I seem to remember 10 or 15 years ago, someone was on trial for importing/selling, I think heroin. At some stage of the trial the ATO stuck their noses in and slapped the defendant with a tax bill for all the ill gotten money made from the drugs. The defendant who was going down then countered them with a tax write off. Said he's been ripped off in a big drug deal of around $20 or 30 million and wanted to claim the loss. I'm pretty sure he won.

It wasn't that much, but i'm guessing you're talking about this:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/27/1098667840417.html

They changed the law shortly after so those 'expenses' are no longer deductible.

Funnily enough, that guy ended up getting shot dead a few years later. Probably not a surprise given he was a drug dealer.