Centrelink Law Reform Australia

Maggie5

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all valid points but reading the story, it sounds like it was an act of one's own folly to be standing on the trailer and had nothing to do with work. I only base that on the word larrikan and "lively".

The employer appears to be the Royal Agricultural Society Queensland (http://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/teenager-dies-after-fall-toowoomba-showgrounds/3001129/). Can anyone comment on their workplace safety record?

regardless of this event; all workers paid or otherwise deserve respect and a safe environment.

Lastly, do you know if Workplace Health and Safety Queensland disclose a report of their findings publicly? I assume they do.
I imagine the report would come from the coroner with input from the Safety agency but not sure. If so that would be made public.
 

GreyCrow

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What is the rationale for Work for the Dole for older unemployed folk who may have worked for 25 or 30 years prior to unemployment?

I get it for young folk sub 25 years old or 30 years old, but for older unemployed folk?
I don't know the Governments rationale but I can give mine.

One of the difficulties with finding oneself out of work after 20-30 years is the shock that that creates. Self worth and values can be shattered. You (should) are given 6 months to find work and to adjust. If after 6 months you haven't found a job isolation and fear and anxiety can arise. The best tonic for that is to do something. Now not everybody is in this position and some find worthwhile things to do with their time.

I also think there is a thought that these older people can give direction and experience and knowledge to those young ones you talk of. This ties in with the self esteem of the older workers.

In a nutshell its to give them something to do which hopefully gives them a sense of worth. I think its about approach as well. If you are negative then your experience will be negative. If you take it in the manner I posted then I think you will get a lot out of it
 

Dry Rot

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Why is it mandatory for them? Shouldn't it be optional for say workers in their fifties?

I've read about some of these activities, such as clearing land or washing dishes, and I dunno that they would think that very worthwhile. Or help with self esteem.

FWIW IIRC, our beloved govt framed it as "giving something back".....A far cry from your theory.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Why is it mandatory for them? Shouldn't it be optional for say workers in their fifties?

I've read about some of these activities, such as clearing land or washing dishes, and I dunno that they would think that very worthwhile. Or help with self esteem.

FWIW IIRC, our beloved govt framed it as "giving something back".....A far cry from your theory.
Our politicians have no Fn idea. I'm all for participation, including participation by pensioners but this is because I believe it is healthy to have purpose.

I have no idea what the dole or the pension pays but it hardly warrants "giving something back"
 

GreyCrow

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Why is it mandatory for them? Shouldn't it be optional for say workers in their fifties?

I've read about some of these activities, such as clearing land or washing dishes, and I dunno that they would think that very worthwhile. Or help with self esteem.

FWIW IIRC, our beloved govt framed it as "giving something back".....A far cry from your theory.
Its mandatory because that's what the Government wants. As to ''giving something back'' I agree I have no idea what the message behind that is. My theory was just that. My theory.

Once again , its not the activity as such that is the driver, its getting out of bed on a regular basis to maintain that connection with the past. Once again I see it as perspective. Be the best dishwasher you can be. Unfortunately the Government have turned it into a punishment model rather than a quality product.

In some ways its similar to the 20 jobs a fortnight model. It doesn't work and only creates needless paper shuffling from unemployed to employer. I would like to see a system of quality applications. Apply for jobs where your skills and abilities are suitable. Its easy for people to send off resumes for jobs they know they aren't going to get but as its a requirement its one way to make up numbers
 

Gazalong

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GreyCrow

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► Plan to give private Job Service Provider power to cut welfare slammed
Boss suspends workers unemployment payments via erroneous report

http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/plan-to-give-private-job-service-providers-power-to-cut-welfare-slammed-20160926-grohf2.html

What do you think?
Gary

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I cant make head nor tail. Was he working or was he on WFD? It doesn't make it clear. How in the hell can an '' employer'' ring Centrelink and get a persons payments suspended? It cannot happen. No matter what the story says. Lazy Journalism.

Sounds as if he was on WFD. Sounds as if he didn't turn up and the provider suspended his payments. Most providers will not do so without prior history.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/a-quarter-of-all-dole-recipients-shirking-appointments-and-jobs/news-story/3fb7d461352ba5f452991972938dfd96

Most of the suspensions were handed down because welfare recipients failed to turn up for appointments, or shirked obligations like work for the dole, and were back-paid once jobseekers re-engaged with job active.

Another 8900 people on the dole were slapped with heavier financial penalties for repeatedly shunning interviews, failing to accept appropriate work, or for misconduct


The above story from a few months ago where it was found , after the scary headline, that out of 800,000 unemployed just over 1% had had payments or part payments suspended. Oohh big bad government ooooh. But hey they got the money back. Oooh big bad government oooh

But yeah all good hardworking nice people.
 

Benny78

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They probs trying to knock me offs my welfares again. If Porter actually wants to get people off welfare why doesn't he pray to god and ask him to cure my split personality psycopathic disorder.
 
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SaintsSeptember

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Work for the dole ie 25 hours of hard labour a week where you are paid the equivalent of $4 an hour, where your lunch breaks aren't included in your time.

How something like this is legal - I don't know.
Add the dole and its more than $4.00. Poor diddums life is so hard.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Its mandatory because that's what the Government wants. As to ''giving something back'' I agree I have no idea what the message behind that is. My theory was just that. My theory.

Once again , its not the activity as such that is the driver, its getting out of bed on a regular basis to maintain that connection with the past. Once again I see it as perspective. Be the best dishwasher you can be. Unfortunately the Government have turned it into a punishment model rather than a quality product.

In some ways its similar to the 20 jobs a fortnight model. It doesn't work and only creates needless paper shuffling from unemployed to employer. I would like to see a system of quality applications. Apply for jobs where your skills and abilities are suitable. Its easy for people to send off resumes for jobs they know they aren't going to get but as its a requirement its one way to make up numbers
yep agree with this

for me work for the dole should be about improving the recipients quality of life, making them better prepared for job interviews and actual work. By working/ participating in life and society through work, is great for mental health, discipline and routine. It also helps when going for a job interview and saying you've being doing x, y and z but look forward to new opportunities rather than saying you've been doing "nuffin and stuff".

the 20 job applications is great in theory especially in low skilled jobs but proper preparation for a job takes time. A tailored resume 1-10 hours), understanding the business and job (2-20 hours), grooming and laundry (1-4 hours), travel time, final rehearsal and 20 minutes punctuality. Perhaps teaching applicants how to improve their job interview skills, where to look and how to apply is something that we should teach at school and again for those on the dole.
 

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SaintsSeptember

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Is it still the case that unemployment benefits commonly include "rent assistance" but still don't have any Mortgage assistance to speak of?
Obviously any such assistance would need to be evaluated but is it really in the country's best interest to force ( possibly temporarily ) unemployed people to sell their home, often during a recession?

Surely it exacerbates any recession that is already affecting the building industry, and the guy forced to sell his home is going to end up collecting later in life.

( Always an easy decision for the Government though.... pay now or pay later. Lets go with later. But later catches up eventually ).
 

GreyCrow

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Of all the searches this seemed to be the most relevant.

Labor prepared to stop/reduce work for the dole

Bill Shorten’s Labor opposition is preparing to walk away from the unemployment program, Work for the Dole, arguing it punishes the unemployed, puts young people in unsafe workplaces, and too often fails to get them into work.

The decision, yet to formalised, would remove the last vestiges of bipartisanship underpinning a scheme that has operated under governments of both stripes, while exposing Labor to the charge that it is weak on mutual obligation for welfare recipients.

Signalling the move, Labor’s spokesman on employment services and workforce participation, Ed Husic, launched a stinging attack on the program in Parliament during Thursday’s adjournment debate, calling the scheme, costing $156 million this year, a “dud” from which seven out of 10 compulsory participants, failed to find stable work.




 

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TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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Is it still the case that unemployment benefits commonly include "rent assistance" but still don't have any Mortgage assistance to speak of?
Obviously any such assistance would need to be evaluated but is it really in the country's best interest to force ( possibly temporarily ) unemployed people to sell their home, often during a recession?

Surely it exacerbates any recession that is already affecting the building industry, and the guy forced to sell his home is going to end up collecting later in life.

( Always an easy decision for the Government though.... pay now or pay later. Lets go with later. But later catches up eventually ).
this is one of the best ideas I've heard.

At the beginning of the GFC you will recall the amazingly generous.....to generous first home owners loans.

The risk was the GFC would catch property developers with too much stock on their books and in the case of devaluation of those properties, their banking ratios would be in default. The flow on effect is the banks security would also fall and thus their asset back to loan ratios would be effected and thus unable to raise equity at high prices to recapitalise. In a worse case scenario, the banks might not be able to roll over their own financing bonds cheaply or at all.

The flow on cost of banks cost of finance is high interest rates to mortgages. Essentially we could have had perestroika (high interest rates, high inflation and a retracting economy). This is an extreme case but the case world leaders feared.


So if we are prepared to bail out property developers and banks, why aren't we prepared to bail out the little guy? Personally I think we should.

How it could work........the bank loan is "crystalised" (no interest charged and the property valued at market). The ownership of the property becomes x% owner and y% bank. The owner then doesn't pay interest, rather they pay y% of fair rent, just as per a sharia law loan. The government pays the rental support. When the person finds their feet, the loan is un-crsytalised and returns to a normal mortgage.

There are many other models but I believe in responsible lending. If a bank realises they are going to be part owners of a loss and or partners with the person they lend to, they are more likely to work with their customers to find positive and respectful solutions.
 

Gough

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Of all the searches this seemed to be the most relevant.

Labor prepared to stop/reduce work for the dole

Bill Shorten’s Labor opposition is preparing to walk away from the unemployment program, Work for the Dole, arguing it punishes the unemployed, puts young people in unsafe workplaces, and too often fails to get them into work.

The decision, yet to formalised, would remove the last vestiges of bipartisanship underpinning a scheme that has operated under governments of both stripes, while exposing Labor to the charge that it is weak on mutual obligation for welfare recipients.

Signalling the move, Labor’s spokesman on employment services and workforce participation, Ed Husic, launched a stinging attack on the program in Parliament during Thursday’s adjournment debate, calling the scheme, costing $156 million this year, a “dud” from which seven out of 10 compulsory participants, failed to find stable work.



https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/labor-s-walk-from-the-dole-program-20180303-p4z2os.html
Be interesting to see how this plays out. I have a feeling that belting the unwaged with a large stick might not be the vote winner it once was.
 

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TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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Be interesting to see how this plays out. I have a feeling that belting the unwaged with a large stick might not be the vote winner it once was.
it's sad to see some think working for the dole is a punishment. I would suggest locking people out of the right to participate in society is a cruel and unusual punishment leading to mental health.

Perhaps we need to educate society the health benefits of social interaction, belonging and contributing.
 

Benny78

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Dole bludgers, backpackers, immigrants. They're all the same shit to LNP. Underpayable workers.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Dole bludgers, backpackers, immigrants. They're all the same shit to LNP. Underpayable workers.
yep it's better to treat these people like scum by giving them a few hundred a week and telling them to F off to the outer suburbs and just hope they don't get bored, commit crimes or develop mental health problems.

There's no point giving the unemployed, the disabled and the elderly a go as they simply don't deserve anything more than a F off cheque. No to mention "out of sight and out of mind" is a much easier option than helping them.

Piss weak lazy governments exist because of your outlook on life!
 

Benny78

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yep it's better to treat these people like scum by giving them a few hundred a week and telling them to F off to the outer suburbs and just hope they don't get bored, commit crimes or develop mental health problems.

There's no point giving the unemployed, the disabled and the elderly a go as they simply don't deserve anything more than a F off cheque. No to mention "out of sight and out of mind" is a much easier option than helping them.

Piss weak lazy governments exist because of your outlook on life!
I wouldn't call exploiting them giving them a chance. It probably is better for them to sit at home in the country, at least make the program optional and see. I wouldn't imagine many choosing to do a $20-60 hr jobs for slave wages. I don't think they would because it's not better. It's worse.

Pay them a proper wage it's just a rort. The whole reason for it anyway is for bosses to have another avenue to slave wages other than backpackers and migrants. It particularly benefits the bigger companies who have work for the dole programs setup with the government. Backroom deals between party and donor. We're effectively talking wage elimination and their staff paid for by the taxpayer. Do you know how much bosses would just love to cut their entire staff just $2 an hour? With this deal it's a sweatshops wet dream.
 
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GreyCrow

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I wouldn't call exploiting them giving them a chance. It probably is better for them to sit at home in the country, at least make the program optional and see. I wouldn't imagine many choosing to do a $20-60 hr jobs for slave wages. I don't think they would because it's not better. It's worse.

Pay them a proper wage it's just a rort. The whole reason for it anyway is for bosses to have another avenue to slave wages other than backpackers and migrants. It particularly benefits the bigger companies who have work for the dole programs setup with the government. Backroom deals between party and donor. We're effectively talking wage elimination and their staff paid for by the taxpayer. Do you know how much bosses would just love to cut their entire staff just $2 an hour? With this deal it's a sweatshops wet dream.
Some do. Because of the reasons I gave above. I started under the Labor system and only had to do 6 hours per week. Because of my background and personal values I did 3 days a week. That led onto employment as a supervisor in that company.

You are right that the people that complain would complain an iron lung was too heavy
 

Benny78

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Some do. Because of the reasons I gave above. I started under the Labor system and only had to do 6 hours per week. Because of my background and personal values I did 3 days a week. That led onto employment as a supervisor in that company.

You are right that the people that complain would complain an iron lung was too heavy
What did you get per hour for those 3 days? How much of it was from the company that benefited from your labour? All you were doing is undercutting unemployed worker and taking their job.

Just because you can be a happy slave, doesn't mean you should be one. These campaigners like origin are generating 12 bil p.a. from price gouging the public and also their workers as one of the companies in a work for the dole arrangement for the government.

They don't even pay $10 a day for work on the dole! That's to the welfare recipient the company pays nothing! Hence undercutting workers.
 
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