Changes for 4th Test vs India.

[The_Reaper]

who would be your pick other than him though? you'd be choosing between... Warner/Wade/Siddle... ?

Someone who wasn't just suspended for disregarding the coach and captain.

So yeah Warner/Wade/Siddle/Cowan.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

If said coach (Arthur) and captain (Clarke) are happy for Watson to take the reigns then his suspension mustn't be viewed as a big deal. Which is odd, given the seemingly heavy handed punishment in the first place.

 

[Zgope1]

Well, that was Siddle's fourth match or maybe fifth (I can't remember if he played both tour matches). Do you really believe that he was having to 'warm-up' for the three matches before hand? What happens next time we have a tour out of Shield season? If it takes him three/four matches on tour to get going, he's of no use to us.

Sometimes, bowlers simply don't bowl well or don't get lucky with wickets.

Fair call, i didn't realise he played both tour games i just remember the controversy about CA not letting him play FC games

 

[Patron]

Why are people bothering to respond with serious teams if Watson's not in their squads? It's NOT happening, he WILL play the 4th Test. I know the typical mindset has set in for alot of people that you should "hate the player who has lost form" but reality is, he's vice-captain, he's playing.

Warner
Cowan
Hughes
Watson (c)
Smith
Wade
Maxwell
Johnson
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon

That is by far the worst Australian top 7 i have seen in 20 years of watching cricket. Warner is the only one who averages above 40. The rest are all 30-40 batsmen (basically all rounder level). The bottom 4 look just as good with the bat.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Why are people bothering to respond with serious teams if Watson's not in their squads? It's NOT happening, he WILL play the 4th Test.

Because many of us are posting what we believe should happen, not what we belive will happen.
His form is even more abysmal than others, he should not play. Right now, unless he starts bowling again, I doubt I would find room for him in the 17 for the England either.

 

[frankrizzo]

Captaincy mess aside i hope clarke doesn't get the option of declaring himself fit again when he's clearly seriously injured.

Both he and ponting have been indulged in recent years and had the luxury of picking themselves and it was clearly to the detriment of the team as they could both barely move.

It's odd that in a team where fast bowlers are rested for phantom injuries we have senior bats who get to play when half fit.

If clarke was english he would already have flown home and be working on getting his dodgy back right for the ashes.

 

[Zgope1]

I feel that Bird needs to get picked over Starc if we're to be a chance in the ashes.

 

[frankrizzo]

Sadly starc's batting means he's an ashes certainty, if he's one of our top 3 test quicks then our so called bowling depth has been vastly overrated.

 

[Zgope1]

Sadly starc's batting means he's an ashes certainty, if he's one of our top 3 test quicks then our so called bowling depth has been vastly overrated.

That's what i can't handle. I'm not the type to call for people's heads, but we really shouldn't be factoring in how our bowlers bat ffs. Unless they're completely even and it's the difference between two players. This situation is not the case. Bird is a much better bowler than Starc and England will find him much harder to get on top of.

If i was playing Starc i'd just wait for the bad ball. Test bowlers CAN'T have this weakness.

 

[Caesar]

People have short memories. Starc's bowling is nowhere near as bad as it has looked on this tour. If he gets picked, with his swing he will be a valuable member of the attack in England.

 

[frankrizzo]

It seems to be the sign of desperate teams, you cling to hope and that means bats who can bowl a bit, bowlers who can bat a bit and allrounders who aren't test standard in either discipline.

Under our current leadership the idea of picking our best 6 bats/keeper at 7 and the 3 best quicks and a spinner is dead.

 

[Zgope1]

People have short memories. Starc's bowling is nowhere near as bad as it has looked on this tour. With his swing he will be a valuable member of the attack in England.

I really don't have a short memory. I thought he bowled well in one session this summer gone by. He bowls "soft" balls and batsmen easily get on top of him. In a side where there is a spinner who can't take wickets and we're pondering our 5th bowler options we can't afford to have bowlers that easily get whacked and are often erratic.

He's a fantastic one day bowler but never swings the red ball the same way he swings the white one. His best test performance didn't involve said swing he just finally bent his back and got through the Sri Lankan tail.

I'm not writing him off forever. I don't hate the guy. I find him a tantalising prospect. But he is not in our top 3 fast bowlers.

 

[frankrizzo]

Exactly he's not a bad bowler and may one day become a very good test quick, but right now he is not in the top 3-4 quicks.

he's a leftie he can bat and he occasionally swings the ball a great deal so he gets the nod over others who have better actual test numbers.

 

[Caesar]

3 matches, 18 wickets at 27 with two fivefers, and you think he bowled one good session all summer? Come on.

I don't know if he's one of our best 3 pacemen, but if he gets selected he will swing the Duke ball plenty and take a good number of wickets. There are far bigger things to stress about.

 

[frankrizzo]

I don't know if he's one of our best 3 pacemen,

If they are all fit you would have bird siddle patto and harris all above him.

If he plays the ashes it should be due to injury to other quicks, which sadly is quite likely.

 

[Zgope1]

18 wickets at 27 in 3 matches with two fivefers, and you think he bowled one good session all summer? Come on.

I don't know if he's one of our best 3 pacemen, but if he gets selected he will swing the Duke ball plenty and take a good number of wickets. There are far bigger things to stress about.

I'll grant you half a good session in the Perth 1st innings but he was underwhelming in the whole Sydney game, his 5 for in the perth second dig was one of the worst 5 for's i've ever seen but look:

I'll admit he's a talent. He gives brilliant glimpses and I have followed him closely since his first game in Aus colours, but he in no way at all deserves a spot ahead of Bird. He very rarely swings the red ball (i saw him do it once, getting Sachin in Perth) and he can't maintain pressure which IS test cricket.

 

[Caesar]

Starc will swing the Duke fine, it's a completely different ball to the Kookaburra. He will be in the squad because none of the bowlers except Harris really get much movement through the air, which is a massive asset in England.

You guys worry too much. Any 3 pacemen you choose from our top 5 will get the job done. The matches we lose will be due to our batting, not our inability to roll the Poms for a decent total.

 

[Zgope1]

agree to disagree. respect you as a poster

 

[southernswannies]

That is by far the worst Australian top 7 i have seen in 20 years of watching cricket. Warner is the only one who averages above 40. The rest are all 30-40 batsmen (basically all rounder level). The bottom 4 look just as good with the bat.

What other choice do we have though? The team I selected was the best of what we have over there. Just to add I wouldn't say Wade is one of the worst in 20 years, surely someone remembers grand ol Graham Manou?

 

[frankrizzo]

Starc will swing the Duke fine, it's a completely different ball to the Kookaburra.

yeah but what exactly is that belief based on?

He could bowl well with the duke or he could be just like the other mitch was in england.

Starc is the perfect example of the xfactor over actual results selection that has infested our team, he could be deadly he could swing it a mile but the reality is he just doesn't have the returns in tests to justify the preferential treatment he gets at the selection table.

 

[Caesar]

Johnson's problem swinging the Duke was his action, I'm not sure how that translates to Starc. Bowlers with good pace, an upright action and good seam position tend to have no trouble swinging the Duke ball. He'll be in the squad, if for whatever reason he struggles in the tour matches he'll be left out. No biggie.

People say that Starc's selection is all x-factor but his results are really quite good for a spearhead. If BigFooty had its way our side would be full of medium pace seamers with pretty averages.

 

[Patron]

What other choice do we have though? The team I selected was the best of what we have over there. Just to add I wouldn't say Wade is one of the worst in 20 years, surely someone remembers grand ol Graham Manou?

We don't our batting sucks, its just depressing.

 

[frankrizzo]

People say that Starc's selection is all x-factor but his results are really quite good for a spearhead. If BigFooty had its way our side would be full of medium pace seamers with pretty averages.

What you said here was pretty much what i was talking about, you would pick starc over bowlers who take more wickets at a better average simply because he bowls faster and might swing the ball more.

That is exactly what xfactor selecting is all about.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Johnson's problem swinging the Duke was his action, I'm not sure how that translates to Starc. Bowlers with good pace, an upright action and good seam position tend to have no trouble swinging the Duke ball. He'll be in the squad, if for whatever reason he struggles in the tour matches he'll be left out. No biggie.

People say that Starc's selection is all x-factor but his results are really quite good for a spearhead. If BigFooty had its way our side would be full of medium pace seamers with pretty averages.

His record for a strike bowler is pathetic. His wickets are generally the tail and he's not consistent enough with swinging the ball or taking wickets. He is actually worse than Johnson. Thats right, I'd rather have Mitchell Johnson in this team ahead of him.

 

[Caesar]

It's not about picking bowlers on the basis of an x-factor, it's about picking a balanced attack. You bowl an attack full of dibby dobblers with pretty averages, and their averages don't look so pretty any more once the batsmen are finished with them.

Starc is a bowler who offers genuine pace and genuine swing, which is something the Test team has been sorely lacking in recent years. Pattinson/Starc on a pace-friendly pitch is the best new ball partnership we have, which means a form Starc will always be a contender for the side.

I think after all these years of McGrath and friends, people tend to forget that inconsistency is the tradeoff of having a genuine quick in your side. Bruce Reid is one of the best lefty speedsters we've ever had, and he took 0-2 wickets in almost half his innings.