Changes for the 3rd Test

[Showbags]

I'm glad some of the people in this thread weren't selectors during our golden era as just about everyone of our greats in years gone by struggled at the start of their Test careers. For example:

-Matt Hayden struggled early in his career (infact Dave Warner actually has a better record than Hayden and Justin Langer at the same stage in his career).

-Justin Langer also was dropped 1000x ala Phil Hughes and only cemented his place in his late 20's (he debuted in 1993 at 23 years of age).

-Damien Martyn was dropped a million times as well and only cemented his spot in his late 20's ala Hayden and Langer.

-Steve Waugh debuted young and didn't score a hundred for ages finally came of age in England in 1989.

These are just some of the examples of former greats starting terribly (with everyone saying they weren't up to it) and eventually maturing to become quality batsmen. The fact of the matter is Hughes, Smith, Warner, Khawaja, Wade are all young they are still 4 or 5 years away from the start of their collective peaks. They may not ever make the step up but to be righting these guys off now is just stupid.

Hughes, Smith, Warner, Khawaja and Wade have all been asked to step up to the plate way before they are ready and shoulder the burden of Australian Cricket thanks to the ineptitude of our succession planning and the ineptitude of the 29+ age bracket which is just not performing. I still think we need to review our development system but I'm not as gloomy about our future as some are.

They are playing an experienced and confident team atm with a serious lack of leadership from the older brigade. I wouldn't be surprised to see the tables turn in a few years when some of the older England players retire (Anderson, Swann, Pietersen, Trott, Bell, Prior are all above 31 years old and at 33-34 you start to lose your reflexes).

 

[Zach Package]

Still don't understand why people are looking to drop smith.

He probably looks the most comfortable at the crease out of anyone, and he's going to be a fixture in the middle order for the next 5, possibly 10 years. it's just a pointless exercise

 

[bungwahl]

Joe Root has batted in every spot in the middle order 4-6 then was pushed up to open in the Ashes, didn't stop him scoring a big hundred in just his 2nd game opening and has scored a hundred or a 50 in every spot he has batted and that is in just 8 games of Test cricket

Some players can adapt, others its just an excuse for failure and Hughes has had plenty like how the selectors destroyed him because they dropped him when he wasn't performing last time they visited England...

Ok, so moving from 6 to opener = 1 change. Next game he can bat 5, then 3, then 5, then opener, then 6, then opener... that'd be 7 changes. Just reading that should make it clear how stupid the process has been. It's probably also worth noting that Root is an opener. He started his Test career as a #6 in an established side, but is an opening bat for Yorkshire.

 

[bungwahl]

I'm glad some of the people in this thread weren't selectors during our golden era as just about everyone of our greats in years gone by struggled at the start of their Test careers. For example:

-Matt Hayden struggled early in his career (infact Dave Warner actually has a better record than Hayden and Justin Langer at the same stage in his career).

-Justin Langer also was dropped 1000x ala Phil Hughes and only cemented his place in his late 20's (he debuted in 1993 at 23 years of age).

-Damien Martyn was dropped a million times as well and only cemented his spot in his late 20's ala Hayden and Langer.

-Steve Waugh debuted young and didn't score a hundred for ages finally came of age in England in 1989.

These are just some of the examples of former greats starting terribly (with everyone saying they weren't up to it) and eventually maturing to become quality batsmen. The fact of the matter is Hughes, Smith, Warner, Khawaja, Wade are all young they are still 4 or 5 years away from the start of their collective peaks. They may not ever make the step up but to be righting these guys off now is just stupid.

Hughes, Smith, Warner, Khawaja and Wade have all been asked to step up to the plate way before they are ready and shoulder the burden of Australian Cricket thanks to the ineptitude of our succession planning and the ineptitude of the 29+ age bracket which is just not performing. I still think we need to review our development system but I'm not as gloomy about our future as some are.

They are playing an experienced and confident team atm with a serious lack of leadership from the older brigade. I wouldn't be surprised to see the tables turn in a few years when some of the older England players retire (Anderson, Swann, Pietersen, Trott, Bell, Prior are all above 31 years old and at 33-34 you start to lose your reflexes).

That kind of considered wisdom is not welcome on these forums. Please call for someone to be dropped/sacked/shot or go elsewhere

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

On Hughes, I would have him #6 for a while. He batted intelligently with the tail in the first Test, unexepcetd maturity perhaps. Yes, he still struggles badly against spin, but he did improve in India (coming off a ridiculosly low base). He and Cowan were the only ones who seemed to learn anything in India.
Hughes has at least shown a wilingness to try and adapt his game. He certainly still has faults but is a quite different player now to caughtguptillbowledmartin. That is more than can be said for the likes of Watson or Warner. I think he can make, and yes may have one or two more times dropped before he gets there; but he may also be the best bet for the next long term captain (scary but true).

 

[eddiesmith]

Ok, so moving from 6 to opener = 1 change. Next game he can bat 5, then 3, then 5, then opener, then 6, then opener... that'd be 7 changes. Just reading that should make it clear how stupid the process has been. It's probably also worth noting that Root is an opener. He started his Test career as a #6 in an established side, but is an opening bat for Yorkshire.

That's pretty much what Root has done and he has made runs in each position

 

[bungwahl]

That's pretty much what Root has done and he has made runs in each position

It's certainly not the blue print for success..

 

[bungwahl]

Strong post.

I have said it before, but the Poms were appalling in 2003 here in Australia and 2 years later, they were holding the urn.

I am very disappointed in how quickly Australian fans have put the cue in the rack. FFS, it could easily be 1-1 now rather than 2-0. All this talk about Australians never giving up, well 99% of people in here have waved the white flag and put the cue in the rack.

Disgraceful.

I can't wait for the 3rd test to start, every loss brings us closer to a win, and im sure the Australian boys are looking forward to the 3rd test and a chance to kick some English arse.

Everyone in here ******* fire up and support the boys.

Spot on again!

We'll probably win the next Test and everyone will swing back to support mode. Then we'll get dusted in the 4th Test and there'll be calls for a royal inquest.

To all of you who are panicking - sit down, take a few deep breaths. It may take some time to solidify our batting lineup, but all is not lost.

 

[CAS79]

Watson staying in London to net practice… or is to soak up more of the style and aurora of the English capital as opposed to playing at the Hove. The man needs game time in the middle and after India where his very willingness to be part of the team was questioned he needs to be with the team for unity. This game provides the perfect opportunity for him to focus on constructing an innings in the middle but he’s naught to be seen.

If Ed makes runs at the Hove while Watsons going for High Tea on The Strand put the man back in. At least he fights for his spot in the team.

 

[Showbags]

That's pretty much what Root has done and he has made runs in each position

He has had 1 change. From 6 to Opener. Bit different from Hughes.

And while I rate Root and think he will be top class it is a bit different his current situation than Hughes, Smith etc. He is playing in a team with Cook, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Prior, Swann, Anderson around him and a team that is winning. There is not any pressure of performance on him whatsoever. If he fails then they will just chalk it up to being young and inexperienced and are willing to overlook his failures due to the team winning (same with Bairstow).

But Hughes, Smith, Khawaja etc have ALL the pressure of performance on them. If they fail then people will be calling for their heads because the team is losing and the older blokes aren't performing and picking up the slack. When they go out to bat they have the "Sword of Damocles" hanging above their heads on every shot they play. One bad shot can cost them a Test spot. Unlike Root who can just play with freedom and assurity.

Cricket is very much a team game (especially in the head) when things are going badly it can spread through the team like a cancer. When things are going well then it can also spread through the team and infect everyone else.

 

[Showbags]

That kind of considered wisdom is not welcome on these forums. Please call for someone to be dropped/sacked/shot or go elsewhere

Haha can do. Drop Brad Haddin, sack Shane Watson and shoot James Sutherland.

 

[CAS79]

Give me a break mate.

Watson is trying to rectify a technical flaw, time in the middle is not what he needs. He needs intensive coaching on this technical flaw.

Hope Watson rips into the poms, scores a double ton and then gets out lumb LBW with Australia 9/600 and then he reviews it just to stir up the masses. On the way, he gives the forks to the press box.

Sorry, are the coaches going to be in London too?

Perhaps my frustration should not have been aimed at Watson as so much the fact he was away from the team unit. Right now he shouldn’t be. The Coaches may have made that decision but who he is going to be working with while the rest of the team is on the South Coast is anyone’s guess.

 

[bluespooner]

Hughes has played 26 test matches for that average of 32. Once upon a time that would have been close to a player's career i.e. Bradman only played 52 tests, McCabe 39 tests.

Lack of opportunities cannot be said to be the reason for his poor record.

 

[eddiesmith]

He has had 1 change. From 6 to Opener. Bit different from Hughes.

But he hasn't, in his 8 matches he has batted in 5 different positions. 1 was likely due to a NWM being used but otherwise he was shifted around the middle order and it didn't stop him making runs and then up to opener and yet again more runs

 

[eddiesmith]

Sorry, are the coaches going to be in London too?

Perhaps my frustration should not have been aimed at Watson as so much the fact he was away from the team unit. Right now he shouldn’t be. The Coaches may have made that decision but who he is going to be working with while the rest of the team is on the South Coast is anyone’s guess.

Plus surely they have nets for him to practice in where the tour match is being played???

 

[DeeWong6996]

1. Watson
2. Warner
3. Khawaja
4. Hughes
5. Clarke
6. Wade
7. Haddin
8. Agar
9. Siddle
10. Harris
11. Bird

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

The team I want is
Warner,Rogers, Khawaja, Smith,Clarke,Hughes,Wade,Siddle,Harris,Bird and either Agar or Lyon injures permitting.

Lack of a 4th seamer is a worry but I have the confidence that our bowlers will Rise to the Challenge as they have done time and time again.

What i expect the team to be is
Watson, Rogers, Khawaja, Hughes, Clarke, Smith, Haddin, Siddle, Harris, Bird and Lyon

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

In: Warner, Bird
Out: Rogers, Pattinson

1. Watson - give him one more chance at not using the DRS
2. Hughes - shields him from the spin
3. Khawaja
4. Clarke - tell him to man the **** up and bat 4
5. Warner - we need him like it or not
6. Smith - keep persisting with him
7. Haddin
8. Agar
9. Siddle
10. Bird - why the **** isn't he already in the team ffs
11. Harris

Watto is the only one consistently scoring 30, but tell him if he uses the DRS once again when LBW he will be dropped, Hughes going up to 2 protects him from the spin, Clarke better harden up and bat 4 ffs or we are done for, hang on we already are... Warner goes 5 for this test and who ever plays worse out of Hughes and Watson makes way for him in the opening spot in the next test. Smith needs to be persisted with until he finds his way. bird should have been selected first test ffs... Have Ferguson on hold for the next test to take the 5 spot for whoever makes way for Warner in the top 2 out of Watto and Hughes...

 

[Fat Nyfe]

Warner was already a good chance to come in, now that he's making some runs for Aus A he's a certainty

 

[Footy Smarts]

The selectors have been bloody tough on Hughes. He goes away and fixes a technical flaw against the new ball and they bring him back to face offies spinning it out of the rough on big turners. How often would he have faced quality spin early in his innings? No surprise he struggles with it. Put him back to opening since he's clearly got the character and quality to make runs (he's one of the only people to regularly make shield runs).

I think it's time to cut our losses with Watson and Haddin. Both have had serious flaws at test level and they haven't come close to figuring them out. Being 2-0 down we should be looking to build confidence and a unit looking forward to the return series. I don't think either of them should be a part of it.

I'd bring in another top order batsman from outside the squad. Probably Doolan and go something like this:

Rogers - Looks close to a big one. Also based on first class form he deserves more leeway than Watson.
Hughes - Must open. It's his spot and means he has 10-15 overs under his belt before Swan comes on which will make all the difference.
Khawaja - Showed plenty last test. Should play here for the rest of the series.
Doolan - Give him a shot. At least he's come off a good shield season
Clarke - Quality.
Smith - Still deserves a chance. A handy attacking spinner when we need a wicket too.
Wade - Time to move on from Haddin. Hopefully he's learnt a bit in his time away from tests.
Agar - Give him another shot.
Siddle - Quality.
Harris - Ditto Siddle.
Bird - Deserves his chance to shine in conditions that should suit his style.

 

[QPower]

Selectors need to to stop the chopping and changing of the both the side and the batting order - pick your best side and settle things down. We looked clueless and panicked at the moment.

 

[The_Reaper]

Go and look up Ponting's record after 26 test matchs.

Or Steve Waughs.

 

[Underarm]

Warner must play, Is one of only 5 batsman to score a century for Australia in the last 12 months (and of those only Clarke played in the 2nd test).

I agree the side needs to be much more set. When you think about the super team we had in the 00's the order was set and rigid. I think we need to pick a team and an order and stick to it.

At the moment the batting order are batting for the survival, almost like they are trying to do enough to get picked test to test, knowing that the lowest performed player is getting shafted for the shittest player from the previous test.

 

[Maddhew]

Warner just toned up against SA a

 

[Rookie]

Warner looks like a definite in.