Preview Changes v Saints

[Dalions]

I wonder how Macca would go playing that 2nd ruck roll…

Better option than Daniher. Imo

 

[a mayes ing]

What injury has PAyne and Gardiner got. Anyone know how long they are out for?

 

[martinson]

I suppose we'll persist with Noah but every time he gets near it you take a deep breath . He's over aggressive with his tackling and often coughs it up when he gets it. He has some good traits and I can see why we're keen on him but if you're a small playing off half back the first thing you need is excellent disposal. So he really needs to work on that.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

I'd play Fort over Hipwood this week. Go back to what worked so well early in the year.

 

[a mayes ing]

Defensive running has been a problem with our team for a long time. Look at what Sydney did on the weekend against Melbourne with good 2 way running. If our players are choosing to not run harder, then they should be told that they may go in the reserves if they aren't putting the effort in. This might be a result of not rotating, seniors thinking that they are in the team and will stay in there regardless. Keep Dev in there as he is a good runner (need to put him in the midfield tho), get Terry in there as well. I have liiked Lyons but he is one of the reasons we are losing against the faster clearances, and its not like we are winning at clearances atm either. Defensive running and spread is a workrate issue, time to change something and rotate players

 

[Squizz89]

Come read these forums Fages we’ve all got our ideas…

 

[Nunez]

Come read these forums Fages we’ve all got our ideas…

Weird, judging by some posts Fagan and co had no idea this was an issue and wouldn't try and rectify it

 

[mattsmob]

Weird, judging by some posts Fagan and co had no idea this was an issue and wouldn't try and rectify it

That and the assumption we don't do opposition scouting reports.

 

[Pride of lions]

I think we are missing Robbo’s attack on the ball and players. He might have his drawbacks but always gives 100% and never gives up trying. He has done enough in the 2’s to get another chance and could provide a bit of spark which we seem to be missing atm. AhChee,Answerth and Prior could all go back to the reserves and TBerry and Matho could also come in for some extra grunt which we desperately need. Pity about Payne,we clearly need more height in defence,particularly against Saints and Melbourne who both have 2 top line rucks who go forward and kick a lot of goals. Lester is a good replacement for Gardiner but doesn’t have the height either.

 

[martinson]

We could do a million things but the plain facts are we've been playing like a tired team for a few weeks. Sydney game excepted.

It can't be physical tiredness . It's mental tiredness. We get the guns blazing for a while and drop off , back into the chip it around ,slow the game down , get a stoppage.

We started that before the first quarter was out yesterday. They monstered us in the stoppages. Mental pressure is wearing us down. Up and coming teams have had a good look at us for 3 years and even the ordinary teams are getting control of the game for periods.

No answers. Just an observation.

I'm sure the coaches are aware and all over it.

 

[Nunez]

We could do a million things but the plain facts are we've been playing like a tired team for a few weeks. Sydney game excepted.

It can't be physical tiredness . It's mental tiredness. We get the guns blazing for a while and drop off , back into the chip it around ,slow the game down , get a stoppage.

We started that before the first quarter was out yesterday. They monstered us in the stoppages. Mental pressure is wearing us down. Up and coming teams have had a good look at us for 3 years and even the ordinary teams are getting control of the game for periods.

No answers. Just an observation.

I'm sure the coaches are aware and all over it.

I wonder if all the travel has effected us?

 

[martinson]

I wonder if all the travel has effected us?

I honestly think that's a myth.

If you're going well the travel helps you play better.

If you're not going so hot it's a convenient excuse.

Bradman and Margaret Court used to get to the UK on a ship. With no training facilities. Never stopped them.

I was disappointed to see Fages bring that up in the presser.

They're professional sportsmen with huge back up.

We had it all our own way travel wise through covid and still got bundled out in finals.

If that's the issue then we really do have problems.

 

[dlanod]

Bradman and Margaret Court used to get to the UK on a ship. With no training facilities. Never stopped them.

Bradman would arrive two months before the first Test and have a dozen warm up games to acclimatise to the travel.

Maybe we should lobby the AFL to organise its schedule to allow that as long as we travel by boat.

I'm going to defer to Leigh Matthews, who still claims we would've won a fourth grand final if not for our home game being shifted. That's not the account of a man who thinks travel doesn't matter, and he's been fairly successful as well.

 

[martinson]

We've played 12 games and could've actually won all of them.

It's been a remarkably consistent overall performance.

Bradman would arrive two months before the first Test and have a dozen warm up games to acclimatise to the travel.

Maybe we should lobby the AFL to organise its schedule to allow that as long as we travel by boat.

I'm going to defer to Leigh Matthews, who still claims we would've won a fourth grand final if not for our home game being shifted. That's not the account of a man who thinks travel doesn't matter, and he's been fairly successful as well.

We lost the 4th because Brown and Lynch had no right to be playing in the condition they were in . Shaun Hart got cleaned up and was out , and under the current rules Luke Power wouldn't have played for 2 weeks and was running around like a zombie. Plus they had a fully fit team and an extra rest day.

It had nothing to do with the travel per se. It was the fitness of the players we had out there.

The travel thing is more mental . These are supremely fit young men in the prime of their lives who do nothing else but play footy. Of course it matters when you don't play so well.

We've played 12 games this year and remarkably could've won all of them . We've had a pretty easy time of it overall. To bring up travel to me is just a cop out.

 

[davemc_lions]

McCarthy kicked 4 last week.

I am a big Linc fan does a lot of things unseen unless you looked
kicked 3 in the first which was great.. then another although went missing at times.
Last 4-6 weeks gone missing for chunks of game.. Then bobs up for a good 10 minutes then cold then 5 mins then cold.
Bailey as well gone missing for chunks of the game. Although like Linc 2-3 touches can be 2-3 goals
Most of our guys last 4-6 weeks gone missing for chunks of games
Add Hippy and Dan under done
Not sure we just heading into a bye and need the rest.
I say our best player been Neale for the last 6 weeks followed by Rayner. Then Clugga.
You probably add Kiddy and Starc although even they gone missing J Berry had a few good games as well although rather him offensive then running with.

Our next two games against teams with 2 good rucks.. So Joe back and one of our rucks you assume out.
Although both Fort and Oscar as the rest of the team been up and down. Oscar not marking them like he used to.
Some of his hits go anywhere as well. Do not mind the big belt now and then although taps miss the mark of late.
Fort been good although I know a few here rather him then Oscar.. It really a toss up who gets the nod.

I do worry with Dev we doing what we did with Keays play him out of his prefered role as we have Lyons, Zorko and Neale in there.

Love to get T Berry in the team although disposal wise he can be a worry we already have Jarod, Answerth, Adams and Andrews in the team. Add Devs loopy kicks that be 6 players with iffy disposal at times.

 

[davemc_lions]

Either Answerth moves up to a wing opening a spot for Madden down back or Madden plays more of a wing role. I really feel like we could use his pace in the side. I’d be surprised if he was an inclusion though. Hasn’t been tearing up the reserves, although I don’t think he ever truly has. He seemed to adapt really well to AFL level and rose to the standard.

Madden not been killing it in the 2's disposal still not always the best.

Lester, T Berry, Robbo and Matho been best in 2's
Wilmont done some nice things if we going to drop Answerth rather for Wilmont myself.

 

[Jivlain]

Bradman and Margaret Court used to get to the UK on a ship. With no training facilities. Never stopped them.

Bradman never needed training facilities just a stump and a golf ball

Probably managed to fit them in his luggage

 

[martinson]

Bradman never needed training facilities just a stump and a golf ball

Probably managed to fit them in his luggage

Yeah it was an extreme example not relevant to today but imagine being on a ship for over 40 days in confined quarters with no training facilities whatever and then be expected to perform not that long after as an elite athlete. Lots of Aussies did it.

We played GWS 8 days before Freo and just had to get on a plane for 5 hours. Not ideal but Freo had to do the to and from Melbourne the week before. The players are overall mollycoddled and if we bring the travel thing up we're just looking for excuses. Get used to it. That should be the message to the players

 

[mpal6]

It's a bloody hard question to answer really... I guess it comes down to upside?

Case in point... Players like Matho and Lester come up a lot. 2 players I love to bits and who are the heart and soul of the club.

In the short term these guys may well offer some gain... but do we already know the upside? Not for a minute suggesting they're done as players but I guess I'm trying to get a read on whether people think short term gain is more important mid season than riding things out?

It could also mean the established players realize there's genuine competition for spots and they're not walk up starts anymore. Can't play in spurts and just wait for the collective strength of the team carry us to a win.

Mitch Robbo has gone to 2s and racked up 30+ disposals last week. I bet if he gets a spot back in the main side he'll go full throttle knowing he's on the edge and has to push harder.

 

[briztoon]

Yeah it was an extreme example not relevant to today but imagine being on a ship for over 40 days in confined quarters with no training facilities whatever and then be expected to perform not that long after as an elite athlete. Lots of Aussies did it.

We played GWS 8 days before Freo and just had to get on a plane for 5 hours. Not ideal but Freo had to do the to and from Melbourne the week before. The players are overall mollycoddled and if we bring the travel thing up we're just looking for excuses. Get used to it. That should be the message to the players

Not sure where the idea of confined quarters comes from. There’s plenty of archived footage showing they pretty much had the run of the ship, unless you’re referring to the whole boat as being confined.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

The ins and outs are always worth a read but I have a question...

Is a good player in bad form worth less than an average player in good form?

And a supplementary...

Is it better to let the good player come good if the average player won't be in the team come finals?

If the good player playing poorly plays so poorly the team structure faults , and that seems to be happening in our team, then possibly an average player playing at his best could be more of a contributor to the team .
At what point do you make the change though.
On another note what has happened to Harry sharp?
I think Fagan has to make the change NOW and bed these quicker guys in the side , we aren't going to win a final playing this territory footbal all the time.
Need some friggin RUN in the side, if they give it away at least some of these guys could actually chase.
It looks like Dads army out there sometimes when we haven't got the ball.
Fire up or f..ck off imo.
Too much talk about being tired ffs, have a friggin rest in the bloody twos.
So much for squads win finals , walk the talk Fages.

 

[martinson]

Not sure where the idea of confined quarters comes from. There’s plenty of archived footage showing they pretty much had the run of the ship, unless you’re referring to the whole boat as being confined.

Lol. I think the sleeping space on a boat was fairly confined. Your personal space . Plus the sea legs which can go on for a while after you leave. You can hardly train on a ship in those days

What was just a throwaway line from me people seem to have honed in on for some reason . The essence of my post was we need to shut up about travel because it's completely the wrong mindset to take into or out of a game and secondly it's no massive imposition against a team like Freo who do it just as often and travel further.

 

[martinson]

If the good player playing poorly plays so poorly the team structure faults , and that seems to be happening in our team, then possibly an average player playing at his best could be more of a contributor to the team .
At what point do you make the change though.
On another note what has happened to Harry sharp?
I think Fagan has to make the change NOW and bed these quicker guys in the side , we aren't going to win a final playing this territory footbal all the time.
Need some friggin RUN in the side, if they give it away at least some of these guys could actually chase.
It looks like Dads army out there sometimes when we haven't got the ball.
Fire up or f..ck off imo.
Too much talk about being tired ffs, have a friggin rest in the bloody twos.
So much for squads win finals , walk the talk Fages.

Without being so direct about it they were my sentiments.

 

[davemc_lions]

Without being so direct about it they were my sentiments.

Me too although problem I see we having a high number players rotate into the BAD ZONE
Very few guys even those people are pointing out have not been bad week in week out.
They have 1 stand out game out of the last 6 weeks and a few stinkers and a few ok.
Even Kiddy and Starc had off games in the last few weeks.
Neale and Rayner probably been our best for the last 6 weeks. Edit add Clugga as well

So it not just one or two players and I think people putting spotlight on Lyons, Harris and Dizzy a lot.

 

[martinson]

Me too although problem I see we having a high number players rotate into the BAD ZONE
Very few guys even those people are pointing out have not been bad week in week out.
They have 1 stand out game out of the last 6 weeks and a few stinkers and a few ok.
Even Kiddy and Starc had off games in the last few weeks.
Neale and Rayner probably been our best for the last 6 weeks. Edit add Clugga as well

So it not just one or two players and I think people putting spotlight on Lyons, Harris and Dizzy a lot.

We've gone along with the way we select and keep our team stable for the time that Fagan has been here . The results have been overall excellent and happy to go along with that because the coaches know the players better than anybody. But when he brought up the tiredness factor I did think well there are guys knocking the door down in the twos ,give one or two who are tired a rest.

Our next 2 games are reasonably critical for where we're at. I did expect us to beat Freo and was surprised at how we played tbh , not that we were bad or ever gave up , just the lack of energy at times. I expect us to beat the Saints. Hopefully that's not a bad sign.