Politics Climate Change Paradox (cont in part 2)

[Better Loosen Up]

Possibly, but I'm not sure if the rate of ice disappearance has.

It's less concerning than losing land ice from Greenland or Antarctica but it does provide a reliable measurement in recent decades of actual changes in the global condition.

I'm guessing it possibly has. There are Viking graveyards in Greenland that are still under permafrost today. There is evidence that beer was also produced in Greenland during the Medieval Warm Period. We are a long way away from that!

 

[JackOutback]

Not disputing, but has this ever happened before?

A-grade procrastination there. Even in the face of alarming evidence, you just shrug your shoulders and say 'maybe it's happened before, let's do nothing and see'.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

A-grade procrastination there. Even in the face of alarming evidence, you just shrug your shoulders and say 'maybe it's happened before, let's do nothing and see'.

Maybe I'm just not an alarmist fruitloop like yourself.

It's pretty simple really. If the same sort of thing has happened time and time again in the past, long before mankind had any real influence, then quite clearly there has to be natural forces at play. Wouldn't it be nice to take a deep breath, find out and understand what these natural forces are and then work out the best course of action which can deliver meaningful results? Seems a much better approach to me than flying off half cocked, screaming "man made CO2 emissions". But I understand that's completely at odds with your political/ ideological biases.

 

[mcnulty]

Scientists have looked high and low for these “natural forces” but haven’t identified one causing the current warming trend.

Just because natural forces have impacted climate in the past doesn’t mean human activity can’t be influencing now.

It’s like arguing that because bushfires have alway occurred, nothing we’re doing now will make any difference.

 

[Corpuscles]

A question for people who have doubts over global warming.Are there contrary voices that dispute arctic sea ice melting?

Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis | Sea ice data updated daily with one-day lag

nsidc.org

View attachment 807223

A question (or two)

Do they also look for evidence that Antarctic ice has been increasing?
References (lots you'll find & post? ;-)
Or ,don't they want to read those scientific articles? (Properly also -Too?) ?

PS I haven't encountered anyone HERE who denies the vague science says the globe is very slightly warming?
Even Snakey Baker who is a believer in CC!
Could you point them (ta disrespectable) out? I have a very trendy hair treatment for them?
Also Shampoo,/fertilizer , proudly made 100% from deceased farting animals (apparently to be eradicated.?)
(No Polar Bear option available yet , not yet even on the horizon)

 

[romeohwho]

Haha. And you're accusing me of being a flat earther! That's hilarious!

Actually the flat earthers have got nothing on the climate deniers. At least there were some excuses for being ignorant back then. Climate deniers -well no excuses-that’s a whole different class of stupid right there.

 

[Mofra]

A question (or two)

Do they also look for evidence that Antarctic ice has been increasing?
References (lots you'll find & post? ;-)
Or ,don't they want to read those scientific articles? (Properly also -Too?) ?

It seems it's gaining sea ice but losing land ice (and the second article posits that the sea ice expansion is due to the reduction in land ice)

Is Antarctica losing or gaining ice?

<p>While the interior of East Antarctica is gaining land ice, overall Antarctica is losing land ice at an accelerating rate. Antarctic sea ice is growing <em>despite</em> a strongly warming Southern Ocean.</p>

skepticalscience.com

http://www.atmos.albany.edu/daes/atmclasses/atm305/2013/27Aug/ngeo1767.pdf

Understanding climate: Antarctic sea ice extent

Antarctic sea ice extent hit a record low extent in February, but thanks to large natural variability from year to year, experts say there is still no long-term trend.

www.climate.gov

 

[Corpuscles]

It seems it's gaining sea ice but losing land ice (and the second article posits that the sea ice expansion is due to the reduction in land ice)

Is Antarctica losing or gaining ice?

<p>While the interior of East Antarctica is gaining land ice, overall Antarctica is losing land ice at an accelerating rate. Antarctic sea ice is growing <em>despite</em> a strongly warming Southern Ocean.</p>

skepticalscience.com

http://www.atmos.albany.edu/daes/atmclasses/atm305/2013/27Aug/ngeo1767.pdf

Understanding climate: Antarctic sea ice extent

Antarctic sea ice extent hit a record low extent in February, but thanks to large natural variability from year to year, experts say there is still no long-term trend.

www.climate.gov

LOL!

Arctic (previous post) IS ALL sea ice!

It is warming slightly and climate is changing! Humans are contributing to change.
Solution > less greedy hypocritical self important Humans!

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Actually the flat earthers have got nothing on the climate deniers. At least there were some excuses for being ignorant back then. Climate deniers -well no excuses-that’s a whole different class of stupid right there.

No worries greenie. Enjoy your protest dancing with your acid tripping mates next Friday.

 

[Mofra]

LOL!

Arctic (previous post) IS ALL sea ice!

It is warming slightly and climate is changing! Humans are contributing to change.
Solution > less greedy hypocritical self important Humans!

Why do you think that?

 

[Crankitup]

Possibly, but I'm not sure if the rate of ice disappearance has.

It's less concerning than losing land ice from Greenland or Antarctica but it does provide a reliable measurement in recent decades of actual changes in the global condition.

I wouldn't worry about Greenland, it was warmer in the 1920's and 1930's than it is now. A study by Dr. Peter Chylek of the University of California, Riverside, addressed the question of whether man is directly responsible for recent warming: “An important question is to what extent can the current (1995-2005) temperature increase in Greenland coastal regions be interpreted as evidence of man-induced global warming? Although there has been a considerable temperature increase during the last decade (1995 to 2005) a similar increase and at a faster rate occurred during the early part of the 20th century (1920 to 1930) when carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases could not be a cause. The Greenland warming of 1920 to 1930 demonstrates that a high concentration of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases is not a necessary condition for period of warming to arise. The observed 1995-2005 temperature increase seems to be within a natural variability of Greenland climate.” (Petr Chylek et al., Geophysical Research Letters, 13 June 2006.)

Glaciers have been receding and growing cyclically for hundreds of years. Recent glacier melting is a consequence of coming out of the very cool period of the Little Ice Age. Ice shelves have been breaking off for centuries. Scientists know of at least 33 periods of glaciers growing and then retreating. It’s normal. Besides, glacier's health is dependent as much on precipitation as on temperature.

Furthermore, in the IPCC's 3rd report they predicted that global warming would most likely lead to a thickening of the ice sheet over the next century because of increased snowfalls.

 

[Crankitup]

A question for people who have doubts over global warming.Are there contrary voices that dispute arctic sea ice melting?

Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis | Sea ice data updated daily with one-day lag

nsidc.org

View attachment 807223

Data 'modification' abounds in this industry. You want a prime example? When I last looked at the subject closely (2009) I found that in January of that year it was reported that the National Snow and Ice Data Center had under-reported Arctic ice by approximately 193,000 mile (an area about the size of California). As of January the true extent of Arctic ice was roughly equivalent to what it was in 1979.

At the same time Antarctic Sea Ice levels were increasing. They were at their highest levels since satellites first started monitoring ice levels (30 years ago). 95% of the world's polar ice is in the Antarctic too BTW. Arctic ice advances and recedes over decades. 2007 saw a minimum in Arctic ice cover in the relatively short period that it's been monitored using satellites. 2008 saw the most rapid growth in Arctic ice cover in that same period (of monitoring history) and Arctic ice cover was back to the average it has over that period by early 2009.

A lot of data modification tactics were exposed during the Climategate scandal. Privately the authors of some of the leaked e-mails couldn't account for the pause in warming at the time. Publicly their message was very different (in order to protect their coveted, closeted multi-million dollar grant receiving positions). If you think I'm being hyperbolic on this point, consider that one of the authors of the leaked e-mails (Phil Jones) had received at the time of the scandal $4.5 million (US) from grants alone. I can tell you he wouldn't have received one cent of that had he been publishing papers attacking the 'orthodoxy'.

To this end (making the data say what they want it to) one of the other authors of the leaked e-mails (Tom Wigley) discussed in quite a few of them his strategies for data modification (translation - manipulation).

 

[Crankitup]

Can we discuss polar bears soon?

 

[Mofra]

Data 'modification' abounds in this industry. You want a prime example? When I last looked at the subject closely (2009) I found that in January of that year it was reported that the National Snow and Ice Data Center had under-reported Arctic ice by approximately 193,000 mile (an area about the size of California). As of January the true extent of Arctic ice was roughly equivalent to what it was in 1979.

At the same time Antarctic Sea Ice levels were increasing. They were at their highest levels since satellites first started monitoring ice levels (30 years ago). 95% of the world's polar ice is in the Antarctic too BTW. Arctic ice advances and recedes over decades. 2007 saw a minimum in Arctic ice cover in the relatively short period that it's been monitored using satellites. 2008 saw the most rapid growth in Arctic ice cover in that same period (of monitoring history) and Arctic ice cover was back to the average it has over that period by early 2009.

The links I provided all state that Antarctic sea ice is increasing too - however the second report I linked noted that the primary driver was the reduction in land ice.

Many maps available online track the Arctic ice cap since 1979 - they show it is shrinking.

 

[This Is Anfield]

Just had a nice nine holes at Lorne Country Club, beautiful summer's day... 17.2 degrees

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Can we discuss polar bears soon?

Like how there were an estimated 6000 Polar Bears in the 1960's as opposed to 26,000 today?

 

[Ron The Bear]

A question for people who have doubts over global warming.Are there contrary voices that dispute arctic sea ice melting?

Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis | Sea ice data updated daily with one-day lag

nsidc.org

View attachment 807223

Most global warming is happening at the North Pole. No question there is a recent downward trend in sea ice extent, as there was leading into the 1940's when Arctic temperatures were well above average.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The sun is not the main driver of climate change. Human activity is.

When you begin to understand how tiny and inconsequential we are, then you will begin to understand this stuff.

Our actions are dwarfed by the massive power of the sun & oceans. We are a flea on a lions back.

 

[Snake_Baker]

FWIW the sun is growing slowly brighter and evaporating the oceans. They will disappear billions of years before the sun goes into red giant phase.

Did the math on that one too. It's about 25,000 litres a day.

The earth will be engulfed by the sun ~ 145 billion years before all of the water on the planet escapes the atmosphere, under current thermodynamic processes.

There's no need to start hoarding yet Ron!

 

[Snake_Baker]

A question for people who have doubts over global warming.Are there contrary voices that dispute arctic sea ice melting?

Who has "doubts" about global warming?

Check your nomenclature Mof.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Data 'modification' abounds in this industry. You want a prime example?

"Climate science" is to science, what "gender studies" are to anthropology.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Just had a nice nine holes at Lorne Country Club, beautiful summer's day... 17.2 degrees

I note the mainstrem hysteria reported that "PERTH JUST HAD IT'S HOTTEST NIGHT IN 24 YEARS!!!!!"

...........and in the middle of January! Truly bloody amazing!

 

[Crankitup]

The links I provided all state that Antarctic sea ice is increasing too - however the second report I linked noted that the primary driver was the reduction in land ice.

Many maps available online track the Arctic ice cap since 1979 - they show it is shrinking.

1979 isn't far enough to make any generalisations about what is normal. The levels were low in the 30's and the late 50's too.

There Has Been No Significant Net Change In Arctic Sea Ice Extent In The Last 80+ Years

notrickszone.com

Another Dis-alarming Analysis of Arctic Sea Ice | Watts Up With That?

Guest post by David Middleton Anthony recently posted an excellent Arctic sea ice analysis by Ron Clutz. In a similar vein, I decided to look at Arctic sea ice from a couple of other dis-alarming perspectives. We keep hearing about the Arctic being ice-free anytime from next month up until a...

wattsupwiththat.com

 

[Crankitup]

Like how there were an estimated 6000 Polar Bears in the 1960's as opposed to 26,000 today?

Whenever the discussion turns to melting ice someone usually brings up the fear of polar bear populations plummeting due to drowning. This despite the fact that polar bears have webbed feet, can stay underwater for more than two minutes and swim up to 100 miles without stopping.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Did the math on that one too. It's about 25,000 litres a day.

The earth will be engulfed by the sun ~ 145 billion years before all of the water on the planet escapes the atmosphere, under current thermodynamic processes.

There's no need to start hoarding yet Ron!

The rate of evaporation will increase as the sun gets brighter/hotter.

Earth's Oceans Destined to Leave in Billion Years

Buy as many freezers as you can afford, and start stockpiling.