Cloke vs Goddard

[Hobgoblin]

Was having a disagreement with a Pies Poster in the Drafts and Trading forum on who was the better player out of Goddard and Cloke. So instead of arguing there I thought I would bring it here. I said Goddard he said Cloke. Two completely different players but both very good ones. Who is the better player overall?

 

[Patron]

Goddard by a long way.

Lynch kicked 65 goals in 2006 nuff said.

 

[the distributer]

Goddard by a long way.

Lynch kicked 65 goals in 2006 nuff said.

As a FF, Clokes about to kick around the 70 mark from CHF as well as being the best contested mark we've seen since champion data started recording the stat, nuff said.

Here are the stats, anyone who thinks goddard is better or more important need to see a doctor ASAP!! and they should be banned from BF until they get a medical certificate proving they have.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web...3&year1=2011&tid2=104&pid2=2005031&year2=2011

 

[Hump 17]

Taken the most and being the best are two completely differant things.

 

[the distributer]

Taken the most and being the best are two completely differant things.

Well should i have said the most successfull contested mark? would you swap Goddard for Cloke?, be honest now.

 

[anti_]

if you compare players on how they go in the biggest matches...

goddard. he was an absolute beast in the finals last year.

if you were to pick a player to play for you this week though, you would go for cloke.

 

[Hump 17]

Imagine Goddard playing at Collingwood and being completely unaccountable and able to roam the whole ground. Not having to play large chunks in the back half then up forward for spells when the ball isnt coming down.

 

[the distributer]

Imagine Goddard playing at Collingwood and being completely unaccountable and able to roam the whole ground. Not having to play large chunks in the back half then up forward for spells when the ball isnt coming down.

Yeah, he plays large chunks on the HB line because your Fwds are doing such a great job, not like you need a decent Mid either since Hayes went down, didn't you say last year he was capable of kicking 70+ as a fwd? lol, Lyon rates Gilbert a better fwd, and he's just been moved back to defense too!!!

 

[entourage]

I'd say cloke, obviously I'm biased, but purely because kpp's are not easy to find and cloke is arguably the best kpf going around and that is a rarity not easily replaced. Very hard to compare the two, totally different players

 

[Hump 17]

Yeah, he plays large chunks on the HB line because your Fwds are doing such a great job, not like you need a decent Mid either since Hayes went down, didn't you say last year he was capable of kicking 70+ as a fwd? lol, Lyon rates Gilbert a better fwd, and he's just been moved back to defense too!!!

No point him playing forward if the backs are getting slaughtered is there? Also standing up forward if the balls not getting there. Like I said imagine if he had the luxary of running around unacountable all day.

 

[the distributer]

No point him playing forward if the backs are getting slaughtered is there? Also standing up forward if the balls not getting there. Like I said imagine if he had the luxary of running around unacountable all day.

So Gilbert, Fisher, Gwilt, Gram are incapable of providing run from defense?, and about the roaming free thing, Goddard was allowed to that for the first 6 Qtrs of the GFs and he tore us a new one, Shaw was allowed to do the same for us and he was pretty good as well (nowhere near as good though obviously) once Swan went to Goddard after HT of GF 2 (which we did to shake the Jones tag) he was systematiclly annihilated, he had 7 touches for the half (Swan had 19 ), now Goddard cops a defensive Fwd most weeks and his numbers have gone south, exactly like i said they would if you recall.

He averages a contested mark every 2.5 games, 0.5 goals per game, 3 inside 50s and 2 clearances since he started getting the same treatment Heath Shaw's had to put up with for the last 4 years, hate to say it but those are not elite stats, not even close, and FTR, Leon Davis is averaging more contested ball.

 

[Plugger35]

What a dumb comparison, two completely different players.

If I had the choice between the two though I would choose Goddard for his versatility.

 

[Hobgoblin]

For those that have not worked it out yet. The Distributor was the person I was arguing with in the other thread as mentioned in the OP.

 

[Hump 17]

So Gilbert, Fisher, Gwilt, Gram are incapable of providing run from defense?, and about the roaming free thing, Goddard was allowed to that for the first 6 Qtrs of the GFs and he tore us a new one, Shaw was allowed to do the same for us and he was pretty good as well (nowhere near as good though obviously) once Swan went to Goddard after HT of GF 2 (which we did to shake the Jones tag) he was systematiclly annihilated, he had 7 touches for the half (Swan had 19 ), now Goddard cops a defensive Fwd most weeks and his numbers have gone south, exactly like i said they would if you recall.

He averages a contested mark every 2.5 games, 0.5 goals per game, 3 inside 50s and 2 clearances since he started getting the same treatment Heath Shaw's had to put up with for the last 4 years, hate to say it but those are not elite stats, not even close, and FTR, Leon Davis is averaging more contested ball.

Do you lie every second of the day. Why do you persist with your lies. If you think Malthouse allowed Goddard roam free in two GF you are stupider than you make out.

 

[the distributer]

Do you lie every second of the day. Why do you persist with your lies. If you think Malthouse allowed Goddard roam free in two GF you are stupider than you make out.

Why would we put a defensive Fwd on him? iirc we were 4 or 5 goals up at HT, hardly panick stations and hardly a time to change our structure wouldn't you agree? Lyon said as much on 'the game plan' the other night, he said 'like us' he never tags a HB, we back our players in he said, just like we do, GF2 it could be argued we shouldve put a defensive Fwd on Goddard from the start (i certainly wouldve anyway) but as good as Goddard was in that first half you were 8 goals down, Mick in a way tagged Goddard in the second half to shake the jones tag on Swan and also as an insurance policy not to let Goddard do the same as he did in GF2, if he had of done that in GF1 there wouldve been no need for a GF2, it isn't that hard to work out mate, watch the bloody games.

 

[Monkey King]

I voted according to what the Blues are in need of; and without a doubt that would be a Cloke type player. Contested marking is becoming more important every round it seems.

 

[Hump 17]

Why would we put a defensive Fwd on him? iirc we were 4 or 5 goals up at HT, hardly panick stations and hardly a time to change our structure wouldn't you agree? Lyon said as much on 'the game plan' the other night, he said 'like us' he never tags a HB, we back our players in he said, just like we do, GF2 it could be argued we shouldve put a defensive Fwd on Goddard from the start (i certainly wouldve anyway) but as good as Goddard was in that first half you were 8 goals down, Mick in a way tagged Goddard in the second half to shake the jones tag on Swan and also as an insurance policy not to let Goddard do the same as he did in GF2, if he had of done that in GF1 there wouldve been no need for a GF2, it isn't that hard to work out mate, watch the bloody games.

No your right a bloke has just dominated a GF the week before yet you allow him to run free only a week later. Please stop its embarrising now.

 

[the distributer]

No your right a bloke has just dominated a GF the week before yet you allow him to run free only a week later. Please stop its embarrising now.

As i said mate, watch the games, i have numerous times, i've also asked you on many occassions who was the Pies player tagging Goddard, i'm yet to recieve an answer.

 

[Drizt]

Cloke is so important to the Collingwood team. I don't think Goddard would be able to replace him directly. I know they are not directly comparable but in terms of what our team needs, we need Cloke more.

Goddard a gun player though.

 

[juss]

OP asks who is the better player.

Cloke might be more valuable as a contested marking KPF is harder to find than a quality mid/flanker/utility. Goddard however is more versatile, can play forward, middle or back where as Cloke is purely a forward.

I reckon Cloke might be more important/valuable structurally for most teams as a gun CHF. Goddard couldn't replace Cloke. The pies would have a hard time replacing Cloke, as quality KPFs are rare. You might be able to replace Goddard with any number of players to play his role well (although not as well).

But the OP isn't asking that. The OP asks who is the better player. Skill for skill, stat for stat, ability to impact a game single handedly, Goddard is the superior player. Comfortably.

 

[the distributer]

OP asks who is the better player.

Cloke might be more valuable as a contested marking KPF is harder to find than a quality mid/flanker/utility. Goddard however is more versatile, can play forward, middle or back where as Cloke is purely a forward.

I reckon Cloke might be more important/valuable structurally for most teams as a gun CHF. Goddard couldn't replace Cloke. The pies would have a hard time replacing Cloke, as quality KPFs are rare. You might be able to replace Goddard with any number of players to play his role well (although not as well).

But the OP isn't asking that. The OP asks who is the better player. Skill for skill, stat for stat, ability to impact a game single handedly, Goddard is the superior player. Comfortably.

So taking contested marks inside 50 and kicking goals isn't impacting a game? but a guy averaging 3 inside 50s, 2 clearances, 0.5 goals and a contested mark every 2.5 games is

 

[juss]

So taking contested marks inside 50 and kicking goals isn't impacting a game? but a guy averaging 3 inside 50s, 2 clearances, 0.5 goals and a contested mark every 2.5 games is

TD, never said Cloke doesn't impact the game, where did I say that? He's an out and out gun, will be AA this year. When building a side from scratch you'd take him first, when comparing the value of a CHF to a utility you'd take the CHF. He is more valuable and is playing great footy. But overall, I reckon Goddard is the superior player. Admitedly not having the greatest of years, but his best is better than Cloke's. Can dominate singlehandedly fwd, mid or back. The same can't be said for Cloke. Cloke as a forward is more reliant on his team mates in order to play well. Goddard on the other hand can almost turn a game on his own (GF1 as an example).

 

[the distributer]

TD, never said Cloke doesn't impact the game, where did I say that? He's an out and out gun, will be AA this year. When building a side from scratch you'd take him first, when comparing the value of a CHF to a utility you'd take the CHF. He is more valuable and is playing great footy. But overall, I reckon Goddard is the superior player. Admitedly not having the greatest of years, but his best is better than Cloke's. Can dominate singlehandedly fwd, mid or back. The same can't be said for Cloke. Cloke as a forward is more reliant on his team mates in order to play well. Goddard on the other hand can almost turn a game on his own (GF1 as an example).

Yeah sorry mate, i did notice that after posting, should of said 'impacts the game more'

Good points, i certainly don't look at it like that though, Cloke plays in the hardest most demanding position on the field, he plays fwd which in itself is much harder than playing back, he always has an opponant (sometimes 3) and has to earn every kick he gets, he's clearly the better contested player and he is very close to being the best at his craft, if someone said Goddard V Franklin you (i hope) would laugh at them, but fact is Clokes output is every bit as impressive as Franklins this year, if not more so.

 

[juss]

Yeah sorry mate, i did notice that after posting, should of said 'impacts the game more'

Good points, i certainly don't look at it like that though, Cloke plays in the hardest most demanding position on the field, he plays fwd which in itself is much harder than playing back, he always has an opponant (sometimes 3) and has to earn every kick he gets, he's clearly the better contested player and he is very close to being the best at his craft, if someone said Goddard V Franklin you (i hope) would laugh at them, but fact is Clokes output is every bit as impressive as Franklins this year, if not more so.

Had a great year has Cloke, deserves the accolades he will get. I think that reputation and runs on the board works in Goddard's favour. He has been better for longer, and his peak was/is higher than Clokes (BG was considered top 3 in the game for a couple of years). He might not be at his best at the moment, but he is still the better player overall in my eyes. The good thing for Cloke is he is younger, so he gets the oppurtunity to play great footy for a number of years and might prove to be the better player by career's end. I just think BG has the runs on the board as the better player so far. Enjoy the ride with Cloke, he'l cause havoc up forward for many years yet

Note on Franklin: While statistically they match up well, Cloke has some way yet to be considered that quality. Franklin's a top 10 player in the game.

 

[the distributer]

Had a great year has Cloke, deserves the accolades he will get. I think that reputation and runs on the board works in Goddard's favour. He has been better for longer, and his peak was/is higher than Clokes (BG was considered top 3 in the game for a couple of years). He might not be at his best at the moment, but he is still the better player overall in my eyes. The good thing for Cloke is he is younger, so he gets the oppurtunity to play great footy for a number of years and might prove to be the better player by career's end. I just think BG has the runs on the board as the better player so far. Enjoy the ride with Cloke, he'l cause havoc up forward for many years yet

Note on Franklin: While statistically they match up well, Cloke has some way yet to be considered that quality. Franklin's a top 10 player in the game.

Franklin's no1 in my eyes, Cloke would be top 10 easilly ATM IMO, i rate him higher than 'some' of our gun mids, many of whom are top 10 themselves in the eyes of some, Swan a standout and Cloke even with Pendles, Thomas a bit behind.