Opinion Commentary & Media III

[Snake_Baker]

I'm surprised you all people think Richmonds game plan revolves around midfield superiority, in fact it's the complete opposite, it's about intercept marking/forward pressure.

Okay, so it's tactics that separate Richmond? The press up that they employ?

I see you didn't even mention the other team.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Anyone else got access to pressure acts for 2018?

The Hun ones will do.

 

[the flying ham]

Let's be honest, with the influx of mids and the likelihood they will be rotated off the pine and up forward Turner is in strife.

And guys like weight, ahern, ldu, walker will be under the pump to perform week in week out. Really positive that we have options allowing us to pick a strong 22 with good form

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[the flying ham]

Let's be honest, with the influx of mids and the likelihood they will be rotated off the pine and up forward Turner is in strife.

And guys like weight, ahern, ldu, walker will be under the pump to perform week in week out. Really positive that we have options allowing us to pick a strong 22 with good form

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Nearly forgot McDonald!

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[Pykie]

Okay, so it's tactics that separate Richmond? The press up that they employ?

I see you didn't even mention the other team.

No, it's not really just tactics.

Their strength as a backline enables them to play like they do.

Having the no.1 forward line in the league means they destroy teams when they get it into their forward half. They only have 1 tall forward, which means they have a fleet of elite goal kicking small forwards.

If they didn't have a good intercept marking backline, they wouldn't be able to rebound once they lose the clearances, meaning they would get scored against alot more than they do.

If they didn't have as good a forward line, their I50 count would drop from 2nd in the league, probably down to where we are (11th), because we average similar midfield clearance no's. They get a huge amount of repeat entries because of their forwards pressure turnover work.

If they weren't as good as they are at either of these things, their tactic probably wouldn't work at all.

 

[GarnerSmash]

No, it's not really just tactics.

Their strength as a backline enables them to play like they do.

Having the no.1 forward line in the league means they destroy teams when they get it into their forward half. They only have 1 tall forward, which means they have a fleet of elite goal kicking small forwards.

If they didn't have a good intercept marking backline, they wouldn't be able to rebound once they lose the clearances, meaning they would get scored against alot more than they do.

If they didn't have as good a forward line, their I50 count would drop from 2nd in the league, probably down to where we are (11th), because we average similar midfield clearance no's. They get a huge amount of repeat entries because of their forwards pressure turnover work.

If they weren't as good as they are at either of these things, their tactic probably wouldn't work at all.

I wonder how much the new rules will impact the Tigers game plans. Given they rely on intercepting in defence, the keeping the ball in their forward half, one would thing that the changes to set ups at center bounces and at kick ins would limit their set ups effectiveness.

 

[Snake_Baker]

No, it's not really just tactics.

Their strength as a backline enables them to play like they do.

Having the no.1 forward line in the league means they destroy teams when they get it into their forward half. They only have 1 tall forward, which means they have a fleet of elite goal kicking small forwards.

If they didn't have a good intercept marking backline, they wouldn't be able to rebound once they lose the clearances, meaning they would get scored against alot more than they do.

If they didn't have as good a forward line, their I50 count would drop from 2nd in the league, probably down to where we are (11th), because we average similar midfield clearance no's. They get a huge amount of repeat entries because of their forwards pressure turnover work.

If they weren't as good as they are at either of these things, their tactic probably wouldn't work at all.

Yet they're ranked 16th for rebounds, whilst being 2nd for inside 50's.

Seems like a whole lotta ball isn't making it down back too often.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I wonder how much the new rules will impact the Tigers game plans. Given they rely on intercepting in defence, the keeping the ball in their forward half, one would thing that the changes to set ups at center bounces and at kick ins would limit their set ups effectiveness.

IMO, it has to expose them to the quick long bomb entry, and running clearance set plays..

If they favor aerial power in their starting defensive 6, then it exposes them at ground level.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Yet they're ranked 16th for rebounds, whilst being 2nd for inside 50's.

Seems like a whole lotta ball isn't making it down back too often.

Rebound 50's isn't a great indicator when most of the time the defence is positioned across the middle of the ground though, which they are because the forwards are applying so much pressure.

 

[Pykie]

Yet they're ranked 16th for rebounds, whilst being 2nd for inside 50's.

Seems like a whole lotta ball isn't making it down back too often.

And?

That's their strength, once the ball gets into their forward half, the ball very rarely gets rebounded back into their defensive half. It's locked in for large volumes of repeat I50's until they score a goal.

Their rebound 50's invariably reflect their clearance differential + oppo rebound 50's that manage to beat their zone - defensive one-on-one's lost. (The figure is usually within 10% of this formula)

 

[Snake_Baker]

Rebound 50's isn't a great indicator when most of the time the defence is positioned across the middle of the ground though, which they are because the forwards are applying so much pressure.

Agree, my point being that Richmonds coaching tactics employ a hard press to lock the ball in the forward half, whereas we retain more defensive integrity. I use this in support of my arguments re their small forwards/flankers & ours.

 

[GarnerSmash]

IMO, it has to expose them to the quick long bomb entry, and running clearance set plays..

If they favor aerial power in their starting defensive 6, then it exposes them at ground level.

Centre clearances could really hurt them and that ability to kick in quickly and get an extra 10 meters on the kick will allow more space for teams to break through their set ups. It will be very interesting....

 

[Snake_Baker]

And?

That's their strength, once the ball gets into their forward half, the ball very rarely gets rebounded back into their defensive half.

That was my initial point. Tactics and not player output is responsible for this.

They swarm their forward line whereas we keep our relatively open by comparison for Brown/Waite (then) and Wood to get in to marking/scoring positions.

 

[Pykie]

I wonder how much the new rules will impact the Tigers game plans. Given they rely on intercepting in defence, the keeping the ball in their forward half, one would thing that the changes to set ups at center bounces and at kick ins would limit their set ups effectiveness.

Certainly going to help teams clear their defensive zone from kickouts.

Alternatively, given they are one of the fastest sides in the competition, they might rebound as good as anyone.

Adding Tom Lynch to a forward line that was already #1 is another factor that probably mitigates that.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Agree, my point being that Richmonds coaching tactics employ a hard press to lock the ball in the forward half, whereas we retain more defensive integrity. I use this in support of my arguments re their small forwards/flankers & ours.

Yeah. One could certainly argue that a stats comparison between Tigs and North small forwards is moot based upon whole team structure and game plan.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Centre clearances could really hurt them and that ability to kick in quickly and get an extra 10 meters on the kick will allow more space for teams to break through their set ups. It will be very interesting....

The leading hit up forward is going to be a pivotal tactic, if they all start back. There's going to be some interesting initial structures.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yeah. One could certainly argue that a stats comparison between Tigs and North small forwards is moot based upon whole team structure and game plan.

I certainly don't rate Castagna, Caddy, Butler, Rioli as a better player vs player combination than Ziebell, Wood, Atley & Turner.

 

[Pykie]

Yeah. One could certainly argue that a stats comparison between Tigs and North small forwards is moot based upon whole team structure and game plan.

Look, we're all fanatical North fans, but sometimes you have to sit down and appreciate some other teams.

Every team in the league applies a full ground press, they differ in their setups, but the basis is there. Are you saying we don't? Because we certainly do.

Some teams do it a lot better than others and Richmond are close to the best at it.


I think you are misinterpreting team structure and game plan as Richmond simply doing it better than us.

I certainly don't rate Castagna, Caddy, Butler, Rioli as a better player vs player combination than Ziebell, Wood, Atley & Turner.

It's your opinion I guess.

I'm not sure why you are bringing Wood into it, he's Jack Riewoldt in their 2019 system, who just kicked 70 goals, was second in score involvements in the league and 4th for I50 tackles.

Caddy = Ziebell. No issues there.

But Edwards, Butler, Rioli, Castagna (or Higgins or Graham etc) vs Turner, Simpkin and Atley is absolutely laughable based on 2018.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Look, we're all fanatical North fans, but sometimes you have to sit down and appreciate some other teams.

Every team in the league applies a full ground press, they differ in their setups, but the basis is there. Are you saying we don't? Because we certainly do.

Some teams do it a lot better than others and Richmond are close to the best at it.


I think you are misinterpreting team structure and game plan as Richmond simply doing it better than us.




It's your opinion I guess.

I'm not sure why you are bringing Wood into it, he's Jack Riewoldt in their 2019 system, who just kicked 70 goals, was second in score involvements in the league and 4th for I50 tackles.

Caddy = Ziebell. No issues there.

But Edwards, Butler, Rioli, Castagna (or Higgins or Graham etc) vs Turner, Simpkin and Atley is absolutely laughable based on 2018.

I think you are too stats oriented to the detriment of an holistic understanding of the game, but I respect your input all the same

 

[Pykie]

I think you are too stats oriented to the detriment of an holistic understanding of the game, but I respect your input all the same

I think there’s definitely a balance, but when assessing modern football trends, you can’t just go by the eye test anymore.

Positions are way too fluid and with no set opponents most of the time, it’s the only way we can compare teams/players.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I think there’s definitely a balance, but when assessing modern football trends, you can’t just go by the eye test anymore.

Positions are way too fluid and with no set opponents most of the time, it’s the only way we can compare teams/players.

The proof will ultimately be in the pudding mate.

If the Atleys, Turners & Hrovats are still laboring offensively when we have a full compliment of mids in the side, then I will have to concede that I have placed too much emphasis on collaborative impact.

 

[Waussie]

Just a change of subject. News just out here that Fyfe from the Dockers of to have surgery on a wrist injury. Probably won't be available for AFLX. Falling like flies at Free.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Just a change of subject. News just out here that Fyfe from the Dockers of to have surgery on a wrist injury. Probably won't be available for AFLX. Falling like flies at Free.

Hoping for a 10 week recovery.

 

[King Corey]

Just a change of subject. News just out here that Fyfe from the Dockers of to have surgery on a wrist injury. Probably won't be available for AFLX. Falling like flies at Free.

First time a player other than Mark Powell celebrated after an injury.

 

[SpiderBurton22]

Pykie, absolutely killing this thread.