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Good on David Matthews for getting into that flog McClure.
 

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DarkPhoenix said:
You can tell which bloke on the panel has never played footy
Click to expand...

Cant stomach Montagna. I remember him from when I was younger and he was just as soft as butter a day sucked up to everyone with clout. Hes probably a different person now but I just can’t shake that image of him...I think about it every time I see or hear him.
 
www.theage.com.au

Wayne Carey: There’s much for my old team to get right, and a few more harsh words might be needed

It really is a question of footy’s old school versus the new generation of footballer and how best to motivate them.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au



Wayne Carey: There’s much for my old team to get right, and a few more harsh words might be needed​

Wayne Carey​

Two-time AFL premiership captain
May 12, 2022 — 7.45pm






To spray or not to spray - that’s been the question at North Melbourne this week after it emerged David Noble had apologised to his players for a fiery post-game address back in round three.

It really is a question of footy’s old school versus the new generation of footballer and how best to motivate them.

Blanket criticism doesn’t always have the desired effect and has become much rarer than it used to be.

It makes me smile thinking back to our days under Denis Pagan, when he’d often deliver each player’s individual post-game review in the rooms after a loss … in front of the entire group.

He’d later put it in writing and post it on the wall of the change rooms at Arden Street for everyone to see.

Back then, there was nowhere to hide and, for the most part, it created a level of accountability. But even 25 years ago, not everyone responded positively.

Wayne Carey and his long-term coach Denis Pagan in 1999.

Wayne Carey and his long-term coach Denis Pagan in 1999.Credit:Vince Caligiuri

Like Denis, great coaches such as Ron Barassi and Mick Malthouse had the spray as a weapon in their arsenal.

They elevated many average players to good players and good players to great with their demanding styles. But at the same time, they probably left a few capable footballers broken.

When you step into a high-performance environment like the AFL – the best of the best – shouldn’t players expect to be critiqued and challenged?

But just like in parenting, we’re much softer with our kids now than what many people had come to expect in generations past. It’s something I often think about, as the way I bring my kids up couldn’t be any more different to how I was raised.

Most would describe my upbringing as rough and, if I had a choice, I’d have preferred to grow up in a very different environment.

Not for a second do I condone some of the things that went on, but would a ‘softer’ upbringing have changed me as a footballer? Would I have become the same player?

They’re questions I’ll never know the answer to.

Regardless, I’ve spoken to enough psychologists to know that every person responds to challenges differently.

It seemed like Nathan Buckley, for instance, struggled initially as captain and then as coach because not everyone had the same professionalism or hunger to get better like he did.

“Just like in parenting, we’re much softer with our kids now than what many people had come to expect in generations past. It’s something I often think about, as the way I bring my kids up couldn’t be any more different to how I was raised.”
Click to expand...
Over time, I think he became a very good captain and later a very good coach because of his care for his players and a more understanding nature.

Now, there generally has to be a level of constructiveness to the feedback we give.

As a parent, the natural reaction when you see one of your children throw a toy at one of their siblings might be to raise your voice.

Often that just makes it worse.

Much like a coach does every day, you’re balancing the moments that need a stern word versus others that need more gentle reinforcement.

That being said, at an elite level in any sport, there should still be a place for some tough love and if it’s not after a 108-point loss – like against the Lions – then when is it?

I’ll admit, this week’s reports have me worried for Noble – not because I don’t think he can coach, but because I’m concerned his apology might box him in.
Does that water down his ability to deliver stern feedback in the future?

Whether it was because of Noble’s post-game ‘spray’ or not, the Roos responded in round four by putting in one of their best performances of the year against Sydney.

David Noble’s methods are coming under scrutiny.

David Noble’s methods are coming under scrutiny.Credit:AFL Photos

What levers does he have to get a response now? Because at the moment Noble is just not getting the response he needs.

Overall, the Kangaroos are exactly where I expected them to be at the start of the year – near the bottom. In that respect, they haven’t let me down like other teams who I had much higher expectations for.

Although, what’s been most disappointing with this group has been the drop off defensively. Last year they showed definite signs of improvement.

They weren’t getting bashed and smashed like in 2020. After another pre-season I expected to see further growth, but instead, as a group, they’ve regressed.

I don’t think the Roos have been getting the most out of their experienced players, although maybe there are reasons for that.

Captain Jack Ziebell has been asked to play a different role up forward and his influence has been patchy. Todd Goldstein has also been marginalised as the club tries to develop Tristan Xerri in the ruck.
There more than just those examples.

Maybe, there are just too many players that simply aren’t good enough? Because, at the moment, this is a team that isn’t up to AFL standard.

Other than that solid performance against Sydney and a decent quarter and a bit against Hawthorn they’ve been poor.

The West Coast win doesn’t really count because they were virtually playing a WAFL team.

It’s been pointed out this week that just three players remain from Melbourne’s team of 2013 – Max Gawn, Jack Viney and Tom McDonald.

Through poor off-field decisions, draft selections and poor development, player after player fell by the wayside.

Key appointments, like CEO Peter Jackson, proved a turning point at Melbourne.

The Dees weeded out those who weren’t good enough and put in place the right people to develop young talent.

Even with that being the case, if they’d started badly last year Simon Goodwin would probably have lost his job. The Dees showed – when you get key decisions right - how quickly it can turn.

So, can North Melbourne orchestrate a similar turnaround with a few more years of top drafting and shrewd trading? The Demons example would be my ‘sell’ to someone like Jason Horne-Francis.

The wheel will turn, and the rewards are even greater for having endured the early pain.

While it’s always a touch concerning to hear a player as valuable as Horne-Francis has put off contract talks, I hope he’s one of the pillars that helps this club move forward.

From what I’ve seen of him on-field, I believe he’ll be a player who can drive those important standards for years to come.

In the meantime, there’s much for my old mob to get right and a few more harsh words might be needed along the way.
 
Gasometer said:
I still can’t figure this out?

Are you posting this from 1989?

How is it back there? Can you do me a favour and tell the 98 GF forward s to practice their goal kicking in windy swirly conditions and get Denis to tag Jarman? Ta.
Click to expand...
www.abcaustralia.net.au

TV - ABC Asia

ABC Asia is your trusted source for news, conversations, and culture with a uniquely Australian perspective.
www.abcaustralia.net.au www.abcaustralia.net.au

Hows that covid going for you?
 
giantroo said:
www.theage.com.au

Wayne Carey: There’s much for my old team to get right, and a few more harsh words might be needed

It really is a question of footy’s old school versus the new generation of footballer and how best to motivate them.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au



Wayne Carey: There’s much for my old team to get right, and a few more harsh words might be needed​

Wayne Carey​

Two-time AFL premiership captain
May 12, 2022 — 7.45pm






To spray or not to spray - that’s been the question at North Melbourne this week after it emerged David Noble had apologised to his players for a fiery post-game address back in round three.

It really is a question of footy’s old school versus the new generation of footballer and how best to motivate them.

Blanket criticism doesn’t always have the desired effect and has become much rarer than it used to be.

It makes me smile thinking back to our days under Denis Pagan, when he’d often deliver each player’s individual post-game review in the rooms after a loss … in front of the entire group.

He’d later put it in writing and post it on the wall of the change rooms at Arden Street for everyone to see.

Back then, there was nowhere to hide and, for the most part, it created a level of accountability. But even 25 years ago, not everyone responded positively.

Wayne Carey and his long-term coach Denis Pagan in 1999.

Wayne Carey and his long-term coach Denis Pagan in 1999.Credit:Vince Caligiuri

Like Denis, great coaches such as Ron Barassi and Mick Malthouse had the spray as a weapon in their arsenal.

They elevated many average players to good players and good players to great with their demanding styles. But at the same time, they probably left a few capable footballers broken.

When you step into a high-performance environment like the AFL – the best of the best – shouldn’t players expect to be critiqued and challenged?

But just like in parenting, we’re much softer with our kids now than what many people had come to expect in generations past. It’s something I often think about, as the way I bring my kids up couldn’t be any more different to how I was raised.

Most would describe my upbringing as rough and, if I had a choice, I’d have preferred to grow up in a very different environment.

Not for a second do I condone some of the things that went on, but would a ‘softer’ upbringing have changed me as a footballer? Would I have become the same player?

They’re questions I’ll never know the answer to.

Regardless, I’ve spoken to enough psychologists to know that every person responds to challenges differently.

It seemed like Nathan Buckley, for instance, struggled initially as captain and then as coach because not everyone had the same professionalism or hunger to get better like he did.


Over time, I think he became a very good captain and later a very good coach because of his care for his players and a more understanding nature.

Now, there generally has to be a level of constructiveness to the feedback we give.

As a parent, the natural reaction when you see one of your children throw a toy at one of their siblings might be to raise your voice.

Often that just makes it worse.

Much like a coach does every day, you’re balancing the moments that need a stern word versus others that need more gentle reinforcement.

That being said, at an elite level in any sport, there should still be a place for some tough love and if it’s not after a 108-point loss – like against the Lions – then when is it?

I’ll admit, this week’s reports have me worried for Noble – not because I don’t think he can coach, but because I’m concerned his apology might box him in.
Does that water down his ability to deliver stern feedback in the future?

Whether it was because of Noble’s post-game ‘spray’ or not, the Roos responded in round four by putting in one of their best performances of the year against Sydney.

David Noble’s methods are coming under scrutiny.

David Noble’s methods are coming under scrutiny.Credit:AFL Photos

What levers does he have to get a response now? Because at the moment Noble is just not getting the response he needs.

Overall, the Kangaroos are exactly where I expected them to be at the start of the year – near the bottom. In that respect, they haven’t let me down like other teams who I had much higher expectations for.

Although, what’s been most disappointing with this group has been the drop off defensively. Last year they showed definite signs of improvement.

They weren’t getting bashed and smashed like in 2020. After another pre-season I expected to see further growth, but instead, as a group, they’ve regressed.

I don’t think the Roos have been getting the most out of their experienced players, although maybe there are reasons for that.

Captain Jack Ziebell has been asked to play a different role up forward and his influence has been patchy. Todd Goldstein has also been marginalised as the club tries to develop Tristan Xerri in the ruck.
There more than just those examples.

Maybe, there are just too many players that simply aren’t good enough? Because, at the moment, this is a team that isn’t up to AFL standard.

Other than that solid performance against Sydney and a decent quarter and a bit against Hawthorn they’ve been poor.

The West Coast win doesn’t really count because they were virtually playing a WAFL team.

It’s been pointed out this week that just three players remain from Melbourne’s team of 2013 – Max Gawn, Jack Viney and Tom McDonald.

Through poor off-field decisions, draft selections and poor development, player after player fell by the wayside.

Key appointments, like CEO Peter Jackson, proved a turning point at Melbourne.

The Dees weeded out those who weren’t good enough and put in place the right people to develop young talent.

Even with that being the case, if they’d started badly last year Simon Goodwin would probably have lost his job. The Dees showed – when you get key decisions right - how quickly it can turn.

So, can North Melbourne orchestrate a similar turnaround with a few more years of top drafting and shrewd trading? The Demons example would be my ‘sell’ to someone like Jason Horne-Francis.

The wheel will turn, and the rewards are even greater for having endured the early pain.

While it’s always a touch concerning to hear a player as valuable as Horne-Francis has put off contract talks, I hope he’s one of the pillars that helps this club move forward.

From what I’ve seen of him on-field, I believe he’ll be a player who can drive those important standards for years to come.

In the meantime, there’s much for my old mob to get right and a few more harsh words might be needed along the way.
Click to expand...

It’s heartening to see Wayne coming in so positively here. I can only assume that’s it’s really hitting home to him what a huge part of his life NM was for a long time. We’re in a hole but we’re not unique in any way as regards that. So many clubs before us have been in the exact same position. The only real “no no” right now is to drop our collective heads and resign to the apparent hopelessness of it all.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Caracas said:
It’s heartening to see Wayne coming in so positively here. I can only assume that’s it’s really hitting home to him what a huge part of his life NM was for a long time. We’re in a hole but we’re not unique in any way as regards that. So many clubs before us have been in the exact same position. The only real “no no” right now is to drop our collective heads and resign to the apparent hopelessness of it all.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
Yes, I hadn’t bothered reading it because I assumed it would be lauding Pagan and the old school approach, but this was much more sensitive and nuanced than I expected.
 

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andana said:
www.abcaustralia.net.au

TV - ABC Asia

ABC Asia is your trusted source for news, conversations, and culture with a uniquely Australian perspective.
www.abcaustralia.net.au www.abcaustralia.net.au

Hows that covid going for you?
Click to expand...
Not very well as a matter of fact. 15 days on now and not much improvement and 10 days sick leave used so far. So thanks

But back on point, that screenshot is is ABC in that column or is it a mix of all channels.

If it’s a mix it’s not clear

If it’s ABC, is that only channel you get aka 1989?
 
Shinboner1 said:
TLDR?
Click to expand...

Mentioned membership, spoke about JHF contract being a non-story, spoke about frustration and disappointment at some results this year but also it being a long process.

Felt the Noble spray was nothing more than a good bake - McPherson's playing experience under Barassi, Eade and Roos was referenced with respect to that.
 
Damo's sliding doors comment (sorry I don't know how to upload it like giantroo awesome work);

IF: Leon Cameron's time at the Giants is up....

THEN: The Roos should today pick up the phone and ask him to join them for the remainder of the season. Not as coach, but as high-end support for David Noble.

Sorry............but no thanks Damo.

We have a clear plan and staff already in place, and I believe we should stick to it not bring in failed senior coaches randomly.
 
Last edited:
Mr Lloyd Christmas said:
Damo's sliding doors comment (sorry I don't know how to upload it like giantroo awesome work);

IF: Leon Cameron's time at the Giants is up....

THEN: The Roos should today pick up the phone and ask him to join them for the remainder of the season. Not as coach, but as high-end support for David Noble.

Sorry............but no thanks Damo (rather slam a door on your head)

We have a clear plan and staff already in place, and I believe we should stick to it not bring in failed senior coaches randomly.
Click to expand...
But wasn't Cameron the most successful GWS coach since Kev Sheedy?
 
Mr Lloyd Christmas said:
Damo's sliding doors comment (sorry I don't know how to upload it like giantroo awesome work);

IF: Leon Cameron's time at the Giants is up....

THEN: The Roos should today pick up the phone and ask him to join them for the remainder of the season. Not as coach, but as high-end support for David Noble.

Sorry............but no thanks Damo (rather slam a door on your head)

We have a clear plan and staff already in place, and I believe we should stick to it not bring in failed senior coaches randomly.
Click to expand...
In a world of inane takes from Damo this takes the cake. I'd rather poach a rotten egg and eat it than take anyone from that club.
 
Roosurgence said:
McLure

Bloke has been sniffing too many farts and it’s rotted his brain.
Click to expand...
Looking at that 80s stockbroker haircut and condition of his skin, you reckon it's farts?
 
Mr Lloyd Christmas said:
Damo's sliding doors comment (sorry I don't know how to upload it like giantroo awesome work);

IF: Leon Cameron's time at the Giants is up....

THEN: The Roos should today pick up the phone and ask him to join them for the remainder of the season. Not as coach, but as high-end support for David Noble.
Click to expand...
Damian Barrett, 2019: North Melbourne calling coaches and offering them jobs is "flippant".

Damian Barrett, 2022: North Melbourne should "pick up the phone" and offer Leon Cameron a job.
 
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