Consolidated Taylor Walker thread

[Drummond]

Re: Walker Now!!!

Drummond ....after a loss people want change and hope

Walker represents hope for the future so I understand why people want to see him play ........but same was said of Otten and Jacky and there was mass disappointment because they didn't deliver more than a few disposals and the romance of the situation was quickly lost.

The same would apply to Walker ......a bit circus like ...... lets us see if Walker is up to it because we don't trust the clubs judgement ...... IMO entirely the wrong reason to play him.

Two exceptionally poor examples WW.

May I ask who wanted Jacky in? He was getting about 50% game time for WWT and he was only getting about 10 touches a game. He was brought in, to the surprise of everyone, and he barely had an impact which wasn’t a surprise to anyone. Otten was called for and yet when he finally got a chance he played about 25 minutes. IMO he got into good positions and didn’t look nearly as bad as Sellar and Jacky did, but the coaching staff chose not to show any faith in him.

 

[Mismatched]

Re: Walker Now!!!

I'm with Stiffy here, heart says play the bloke, mind says lets wait till next year, although the brain is struggling more and more to counter the hearts arguments. Quite frankly, could he be any worse than the rest of our forward line, Jericho hardly puts defensive pressure on and he gets a game, yet Walker doesn't. I don't think Tails will get a game this year and in the long run I think we might be thankful for it, but gee, you'd just like to see Craigy do something about our pathetic excuse for a forward line and the entrys that go along with it. There's no chicken and egg argument here, its bloody well both of them and both need to fixed.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Walker Now!!!

Two exceptionally poor examples WW.

May I ask who wanted Jacky in? He was getting about 50% game time for WWT and he was only getting about 10 touches a game. He was brought in, to the surprise of everyone, and he barely had an impact which wasn’t a surprise to anyone. Otten was called for and yet when he finally got a chance he played about 25 minutes. IMO he got into good positions and didn’t look nearly as bad as Sellar and Jacky did, but the coaching staff chose not to show any faith in him.

I'll try and do better next time and quote players you have called to have played ..........lets say Meesen and Campbell

 

[Sir Vlado]

Re: Walker Now!!!

SCREW the stats everybody just bring in WALKER!!!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Walker Now!!!

SCREW the stats everybody just bring in WALKER!!!

Is that a valid debating argument

 

[smoovy]

Re: Walker Now!!!

The more we wait, the more expectations will build and the more the pressure will be on him. Already he is starting to built up in some sort of Messiah like proportions.

I think playing him against Sydney away would be a better bet than playing him at home. There will be less pressure and less attention up there. If it were to be a home game I would put my house on him getting his head on the back page of Friday's paper after the teams are announced.

 

[Drummond]

Re: Walker Now!!!

I'll try and do better next time and quote players you have called to have played ..........lets say Meesen and Campbell

So you're wrong you have to try and find examples of when I was wrong?

And Campbell? The guy played very well today and you couldn't fault anything he did. Everyone bags his disposal and he didn't miss a target, some of those 50 metre passes when straight to a teammates chest. So again WW, poor example.

 

[jenny61_99]

Re: Walker Now!!!

If you are then it's a minority of 2

Minority of 3? Reading all the impassioned and highly hysterical posts have been an interesting task for me. I too feel very disappointed by our lack of forward structure and options. Disappointed that our forwards played poorly in horrid conditions. But I honestly believe that bringing in Taylor Walker now would be a mistake and for all the wrong reasons. The examples of Jacky and Otten are absolutely spot on - particularly Jacky. We'd been getting all these brilliant reports of how well Jacky trained in the pre-season, expectations were massive and within two games most were calling for his head. The pressure on these kids is bad enough without the whole frigging support group holding their collective breath to see if he can actually be something at this level.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Walker Now!!!

So you're wrong you have to try and find examples of when I was wrong?
And Campbell? The guy played very well today and you couldn't fault anything he did. Everyone bags his disposal and he didn't miss a target, some of those 50 metre passes when straight to a teammates chest. So again WW, poor example.

No I'm simply saying is that the romance attached with picking a newbie rarely translates to a pleasant experience of output versus expectation

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Walker Now!!!

Minority of 3? Reading all the impassioned and highly hysterical posts have been an interesting task for me. I too feel very disappointed by our lack of forward structure and options. Disappointed that our forwards played poorly in horrid conditions. But I honestly believe that bringing in Taylor Walker now would be a mistake and for all the wrong reasons. The examples of Jacky and Otten are absolutely spot on - particularly Jacky. We'd been getting all these brilliant reports of how well Jacky trained in the pre-season, expectations were massive and within two games most were calling for his head. The pressure on these kids is bad enough without the whole frigging support group holding their collective breath to see if he can actually be something at this level.

Jenny thanks for youre support .......

 

[Mismatched]

Re: Walker Now!!!

Minority of 3? Reading all the impassioned and highly hysterical posts have been an interesting task for me. I too feel very disappointed by our lack of forward structure and options. Disappointed that our forwards played poorly in horrid conditions. But I honestly believe that bringing in Taylor Walker now would be a mistake and for all the wrong reasons. The examples of Jacky and Otten are absolutely spot on - particularly Jacky. We'd been getting all these brilliant reports of how well Jacky trained in the pre-season, expectations were massive and within two games most were calling for his head. The pressure on these kids is bad enough without the whole frigging support group holding their collective breath to see if he can actually be something at this level.

Can I make that 3 and a half? Or is this minority for totally committed people only?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Walker Now!!!

Can I make that 3 and a half? Or is this minority for totally committed people only?

You can't sit on the fence .......too easy to do youself an injury

 

[Eastern Crow]

Re: Walker Now!!!

So you're wrong you have to try and find examples of when I was wrong?

And Campbell? The guy played very well today and you couldn't fault anything he did. Everyone bags his disposal and he didn't miss a target, some of those 50 metre passes when straight to a teammates chest. So again WW, poor example.

Campbell played mostly in the midfield and only won 8 possessions, so in my opinion the played very well tag does not fit

 

[Drummond]

Re: Walker Now!!!

Minority of 3? Reading all the impassioned and highly hysterical posts have been an interesting task for me. I too feel very disappointed by our lack of forward structure and options. Disappointed that our forwards played poorly in horrid conditions. But I honestly believe that bringing in Taylor Walker now would be a mistake and for all the wrong reasons. The examples of Jacky and Otten are absolutely spot on - particularly Jacky. We'd been getting all these brilliant reports of how well Jacky trained in the pre-season, expectations were massive and within two games most were calling for his head. The pressure on these kids is bad enough without the whole frigging support group holding their collective breath to see if he can actually be something at this level.

My goodness, what is wrong with some people? Who, and yes I want names, demanded that Jacky play? His first few games in the SANFL were quite average, he had about a dozen possessions and played about 50-60% of the game because the Eagles didn’t even have much faith in his ability to get then job done. He was then, out of the blue, picked to make his debut. No one called for it; no one had any great expectations and everyone wanted him out of the side because he was a bit of a liability. So please do NOT make such ridiculous and unwarranted comparisons.

Maybe he was played just so the AFC could have it to fall back on. "Look what happens when we play a youngster > they don't perform". Maybe if they picked someone who was performing in the local comp.

 

[Cap]

Re: Walker Now!!!

Petrenko and Otten seem to be the guys that get in the best for their respective teams pretty much every week - they are the guys who deserve their shot

 

[Eastern Crow]

Re: Walker Now!!!

I thought NC has said that he would not put any limitations on his young group, sounds like to me that he is putting limitations on the likes of Walker

I do not buy this crap that he is not ready and it would be throwing him to the wolvws

was Ben Hart ready as a skinny kid to play on Lockett at Morrabin, was Rehn ready as a skinny ruckman when selected

these lads just want to play footy, they just worry about the next contest, Walker would rather kick 2 goals a game for the crows than kick 6 goals a game in the sanfl

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Walker Now!!!

My goodness, what is wrong with some people? Who, and yes I want names, demanded that Jacky play? His first few games in the SANFL were quite average, he had about a dozen possessions and played about 50-60% of the game because the Eagles didn’t even have much faith in his ability to get then job done. He was then, out of the blue, picked to make his debut. No one called for it; no one had any great expectations and everyone wanted him out of the side because he was a bit of a liability. So please do NOT make such ridiculous and unwarranted comparisons.
.

A liability ......no more than most rookies this season

Your a real hypocrite sometimes ........you want youngsters played yet your highly critical if they do not match YOUR expectations.

You may not have called for Jacky........ but there was a general outcry from this board to play youngsters to have a look at them, give them a taste of AFL .......and then ultimately to "rip" them apart because they only get a few possessions as if the expectations were of a "significant" contribution

 

[jenny61_99]

Re: Walker Now!!!

My goodness, what is wrong with some people? Who, and yes I want names, demanded that Jacky play? His first few games in the SANFL were quite average, he had about a dozen possessions and played about 50-60% of the game because the Eagles didn’t even have much faith in his ability to get then job done. He was then, out of the blue, picked to make his debut. No one called for it; no one had any great expectations and everyone wanted him out of the side because he was a bit of a liability. So please do NOT make such ridiculous and unwarranted comparisons.

Drummond we have desperately needed a fast small crumbing player for YEARS. Jacky looked like he could deliver in this area. Everyone - and I mean everyone - had great expectations based on what we had seen and read. Everyone was very disappointed that he didn't deliver on the promise he had shown over the pre-season. Even people are calling for Tippett to be dropped..... great white hope.... blah blah.... let's put him at FF permanently and not as a part time ruckman blah blah... and now the call is for him to be dropped. I fear the same could happen to Walker..... and that could be disasterous for his - and our - long term future. We ALL want to see him..... but some of us - the logical ones - want what is best for the long term.

 

[jo172]

Re: Walker Now!!!

Campbell played mostly in the midfield and only won 8 possessions, so in my opinion the played very well tag does not fit

But to add to those 8 possesions were another 10 1 per centers. Little things like atttacks on contests and shepherds he layed today were invaluable and kept the margin low.

His best game for the club and should be retained next week

And the more I think about it the more I think we should wait for Walker. He has the potential and ability to be our best forward since Modra. As much as we'd like to see him dob a few in the AFL I believe that in the long term what will help him most is staying in the SANFL where he doesnt have to carry the brunt of the outrageous expectations which are now being put on him by some sectors of the media and where he can work on the little deficiences in his game such as consistency and chasing.

I look forward to Taylor debuting relatively quietly without the pressure and fanfare at the same time Dangerfield does in Round 1 next year

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Walker Now!!!

Drummond we have desperately needed a fast small crumbing player for YEARS. Jacky looked like he could deliver in this area. Everyone - and I mean everyone - had great expectations based on what we had seen and read. Everyone was very disappointed that he didn't deliver on the promise he had shown over the pre-season. Even people are calling for Tippett to be dropped..... great white hope.... blah blah.... let's put him at FF permanently and not as a part time ruckman blah blah... and now the call is for him to be dropped. I fear the same could happen to Walker..... and that could be disasterous for his - and our - long term future. We ALL want to see him..... but some of us - the logical ones - want what is best for the long term.

 

[Bomber Man]

Re: Walker Now!!!

I agree with your comment but we still need to give these kids time to adjust to AFL footy, look how long it took Hawthorn to become a power house even with top draft picks........ but are we crow supporters willing to take some pain.

Yeah, but...

Franklin dob Jan 30 '87, Roughead dob March 23 '87, in 2005 both had just turned 18:
Franklin played 20 matches and kicked 21.13
Roughead played 16 matches and kicked 6.5 (played more at CHB)

Knowing this, why is Walker too young or not ready? And how is playing him bad for the development of his career / the club? Fast forward 3 years and you could have a 21yo with closer to 70 games against his name rather than 30 games.

That could well be the difference between Hawthorn's team development, on top of Buddy and Roughead:
Lewis 74 games born Apr '86
Young 59 games born Feb '86
Ellis 29 games born Feb '88
Birchall 56 games born Jan '88
Rioli 16 games born Jul '89
Morton 8 games born Oct '88 (plenty considering injury hold-ups last year)

The Hawks seem to waste no time getting games into the young players if they are showing enough to get in the side, maybe that's why they've become so good so quick.

Edit: Just a thought... Practically every player debuting in the AFL says the main thing they needed to adjust to is the pace / required speed of decision. Perhaps giving players extended experience at lower levels just gets them more used to a slower speed, which in turn takes longer to adapt from. The younger / sooner you get used to something the easier it is ongoing.

 

[Drummond]

Re: Walker Now!!!

A liability ......no more than most rookies this season

Your a real hypocrite sometimes ........you want youngsters played yet your highly critical if they do not match YOUR expectations.

You may not have called for Jacky........ but there was a general outcry from this board to play youngsters to have a look at them, give them a taste of AFL .......and then ultimately to "rip" them apart because they only get a few possessions as if the expectations were of a "significant" contribution

Ahh see WW you make it sound as though I want everyone over the age of 25 dumped to be replaced by the youngsters. Not true. I don’t call for everyone who’s young to play, I only call for those who I believe are ready and play in positions that we are lacking in. I called for Petrenko to be upgraded because I wanted Johncock to be released up forward. His confidence is shot right now, as evident by his kick-ins. Petrenko has been in outstanding form and his speed and ability to break lines would be invaluable. Two of his biggest strengths are two of our biggest weaknesses.

I think you’re overreacting in regards to Jacky. Not many, if any at all, called for him to debut. There’s a different between calling for someone to make their debut and wishing someone good luck in their first game…

Drummond we have desperately needed a fast small crumbing player for YEARS. Jacky looked like he could deliver in this area. Everyone - and I mean everyone - had great expectations based on what we had seen and read. Everyone was very disappointed that he didn't deliver on the promise he had shown over the pre-season. Even people are calling for Tippett to be dropped..... great white hope.... blah blah.... let's put him at FF permanently and not as a part time ruckman blah blah... and now the call is for him to be dropped. I fear the same could happen to Walker..... and that could be disasterous for his - and our - long term future. We ALL want to see him..... but some of us - the logical ones - want what is best for the long term.

Jacky looked out of his depth in the NAB Cup, he played in Dubai and from memory played the next week but then lost his place. Not a good sign losing your place in the PS when you’re looking to experiment and, as you quite rightly pointed out, have a need for a small forward. Then when he started the year with the WWT he was playing mainly across half forward but was struggling to get in on the goals. Then the Crows decided to take a punt, quite mysteriously given how conservative we are, and safe to say it didn’t work out. But don’t try and use this example as a reason why we shouldn’t play Walker. Bar Armstrong, Jacky was the least ready of all our draftees last year. Walker is far more advanced than where Jacky was/is, and for starters he’s performing in the SANFL. 37 goals in 11 games is a great effort, and he wouldn't get the world alight at AFL level but it would hardly cripple him long term which you are suggesting.

 

[macca23]

Re: Walker Now!!!

If you are then it's a minority of 2

No - there's 4 of us at least.

You, Cappy, Stiffy and me.

Walker is the best forward prospect we have had since Modra. He's gold and we have to treat him like gold, because at the AFC there ain't no others.

He is a natural forward and we just don't have them.

Walker is critical to our future - critical - which is why Craig wants to wrap him up in cotton wool until next year.

Another pre-season will see him much stronger, fitter and faster than he is now. Quite frankly, if we're patient in our handling of him, I expect him to play from game 1 next year and be a minor sensation.

 

[Elite Crow]

Re: Walker Now!!!

I can not believe the amount of crap I have read in this thread. The Craig clones who say we cant play Walker because it will break his confidence if he plays poorly. None of you know he will play poorly, it is impossible for anyone to say what he will do. The only formline you can draw upon are :

he has very good SANFL form playing against men
he has played against men since he was 16, he lifted his team to a premiership
he has lifted to the standard of every competition he has played, whether it be Broken Hill, the Champs, TAC and now SANFL.

But for some reason we wont play him because we think he will fail and it will crush him? What utter garbage, do we think Walker is a basket case that even if he plays a couple of games and doesnt succeed he wont recover? Maybe it will give him a taste of it so going into next year he has an understanding whats it all about. Maybe even maybe he might hold his own, imagine his confidence then going into next year. I think its got to a point where Craigs stubborness is shining through. And did some seriously say he wouldnt have done better than Jerichos effort today? 4 disposals???

 

[King Elvis]

Re: Walker Now!!!

Players need to be rewarded for SANFL form, otherwise it'll undermine the entire selection process.

I think it'd be more harmful for Walker when he dominates the SANFL, and has to accept the fact that Jericho is picked in front of him.