Mega Thread >>COVID-19 DISCUSSION THREAD<<

[Kirkswan]

fu** all the depressing shit...it's Friday!
I love how sometimes all you can see is this tail wagging happily

OMG!! I loved it! I wanna play too...

 

[Nool Carpenna]

Shrinkage*

Pedantic, but it's shrinkage, covers shoplifting, missing inventory, damaged goods, etc etc

Thanks for that. I guess if we’re gonna be in a world where every thing we do is measured by its fiscal value and, where the lives of our elders is deemed less important than maintaining economic growth, we should probably all learn the correct terminologies.

 

[Swansujelly]

Shrinkage*

Pedantic, but it's shrinkage, covers shoplifting, missing inventory, damaged goods, etc etc

Speak for yourself mate...seriously tho, thanks for putting a term for it.

 

[Kirkswan]

OMG!!! I'm away for a week and the cabin fever hit!!! You guys need to get out more!


I'll see myself out....

 

[The King!]

or just accept there will always be a percentage of loss in any system. We pay for shoplifting in every item we buy. Never punish the many for the sins of the few.

ha ha true, I dont know just a shame many , well some abuse the system, whilst others who try and need more help dont get it.

 

[sataris]

Thanks for that. I guess if we’re gonna be in a world where every thing we do is measured by its fiscal value and, where the lives of our elders is deemed less important than maintaining economic growth, we should probably all learn the correct terminologies.

We've been living in that world since the dawn of human civilisation.

 

[Nool Carpenna]

You’d know

 

[Kirkswan]

We've been living in that world since the dawn of human civilisation.

Not quite... we once revered and respected our elderly and protected them.

Now, with huge expansion of the population of the earth over the last 100 years, and the rapid lengthening of our life spans, we deem them of little value except for emotionally.

What most of us forget, is that without them, our current lives wouldn't be possible.

Very sad...

 

[The King!]

Not quite... we once revered and respected our elderly and protected them.

Now, with huge expansion of the population of the earth over the last 100 years, and the rapid lengthening of our life spans, we deem them of little value except for emotionally.

What most of us forget, is that without them, our current lives wouldn't be possible.

Very sad...

Like you said life expectancy has changed prior to the 50s it was a tick under 70, not its 83, so the elderly have more people in their collective who are institutionalised and can’t really do anything

I’m not sure what you define as respect to quantify how it’s been lost Or what else you want done for people , how has it been lost?

I would say when I was in primary school we in 90s we did less on things like Anzac Day than society does now, we did less visits to aged care, in fact I never had one at school my kids have done a few.

every generation if you read literature, watch tv, listen to stories thinks it’s disrespected by younger people generally anyway.

this topic started after I was asked between a choice between prolonging life versus interrupting the future, ideally it’s never a choice but if it is that clear cut a choice it seems obvious to me and that’s the sad choice that would be made in a choice between treatment, again hopefully not a choice

The fact Australia has embraced flattening the curve so well would be based on a strong element of respect for the elderly as well imo

Each to their own I guess

 

[Angry Red Bull]

There is a divide in values belief systems around the whole issue whether sanctity of life takes precedence over economic impact. In other words is it acceptable to sacrifice the elderly for the economic comfort of the remainder. No prizes for guessing where i stand and that stance is inflexible. Nothing to do with self interest. Everything to do with principles

We are privileged that our decision makers and medical teams have pressed the right buttons and pulled the right levers to thread the needle. As we now move to easing the restrictions I have faith that they will continue to thread that needle and adjust as required. What I think or others may in opposition become irrelevant because those who we have democratically elected and are appointed by medical skill will rightfully be choosing the path for us all.

 

[sataris]

 

[The King!]

october grand final is the hope apparently

 

[Jewelsbon]

Thanks for that. I guess if we’re gonna be in a world where every thing we do is measured by its fiscal value and, where the lives of our elders is deemed less important than maintaining economic growth, we should probably all learn the correct terminologies.

I don't believe anybody is thinking that, we need to learn to live with this illness and find a way forward, locking everyone away until there is a vaccine or cure available is pure folly because THERE MAY NEVER BE ONE.

 

[The King!]

I don't believe anybody is thinking that, we need to learn to live with this illness and find a way forward, locking everyone away until there is a vaccine or cure available is pure folly because THERE MAY NEVER BE ONE.

Spot on !!
l

 

[Kirkswan]

I don't believe anybody is thinking that, we need to learn to live with this illness and find a way forward, locking everyone away until there is a vaccine or cure available is pure folly because THERE MAY NEVER BE ONE.

This is exactly right, and as far as I know, that hasn't happened anywhere in the world... The shutdown was all about buying time, right from the very beginning. It had nothing to do with a cure or a vaccine, that was just media shit.

However, I do agree with Nool Carpenna that the lives of the very elderly (say 80+) are deemed less important that maintaining economic growth. And yes, I do understand the need to maintain the growth...

And The King!, Anzac day has nothing to do with respecting the elderly... not sure where that came from??

 

[The King!]

This is exactly right, and as far as I know, that hasn't happened anywhere in the world... The shutdown was all about buying time, right from the very beginning. It had nothing to do with a cure or a vaccine, that was just media shit.

However, I do agree with Nool Carpenna that the lives of the very elderly (say 80+) are deemed less important that maintaining economic growth. And yes, I do understand the need to maintain the growth...

And The King!, Anzac day has nothing to do with respecting the elderly... not sure where that came from??

You don’t think highlighting the great contribution of the anzacs who Are mostly elderly people and the way it’s become bigger and bigger is a sign of respect?

I was just saying the acknowledgement of war veterans is bigger than it used to be in my childhood is one example of an increase in respect for older generations

fair enough if you don’t agree

 

[Kirkswan]

You don’t think highlighting the great contribution of the anzacs who Are mostly elderly people and the way it’s become bigger and bigger is a sign of respect?

I was just saying the acknowledgement of war veterans is bigger than it used to be in my childhood is one example of an increase in respect for older generations

fair enough if you don’t agree

I get your point, and no I don't agree... but that's cool, it keeps the board interesting..

FYI the ANZACs are dead mate... unless that are any 120+ year olds running around out there... they served in 1915 (ish). There might be a few younger ones out there who were in WWII, who would be/have been ANZACs, but they all be 100 ish. ANZAC day is now used to commemorate all Australians & New Zealanders who serve in the armed forces and go into conflict (including the Gulf War, Iraq War, peace keeping missions etc). These people are not necessarily old... but perhaps you know all this and are just winding me up

 

[Nool Carpenna]

I was just saying the acknowledgement of war veterans is bigger than it used to be in my childhood is one example of an increase in respect for older generations

So ANZAC Day is a nod to 6 million seniors because nearly one half of one percent of them served in wars? Niceee!

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I don't believe anybody is thinking that, we need to learn to live with this illness and find a way forward, locking everyone away until there is a vaccine or cure available is pure folly because THERE MAY NEVER BE ONE.

Perhaps you don’t watch the daily press briefing of the NSW premier. She said exactly that that restrictions will be in place in some measure as way of life until there is a vaccine. Most regional centres and some states have now eradicated the virus. So those can release accordingly. Places like Sydney which continues to have community transmission albeit it at Low levels will need to maintain a regime that fixes the RO at 1 or less (currently 0.89) or as close as possible because anything greater than 1 will have accelerated growth in numbers the more the greater the RO. It will explode just like in most parts of Europe USA etc. it has taken stringent measures to get the RO down to 0.89 so I’m not very confident relaxation will keep it below 1 or as close to 1 as is possible. An infection of 5 say can very quickly escalate to 500000 on the back of an RO of 2.5. Which was the speculated RO of Covid 19 at start. That is the math of exponential accelerators. That is the danger we face.

My personal view and im no epidemiologist as has painfully been emphasised is that we still have capacity for eradication but that will occur too slowly with 0.89 if at all. Identify hotspots in Sydney eg Bondi or Melbourne suburbs and have mandatory n95 mask use for a few weeks in those places together with 100% testing and effective use of Covid safe app as a means of further driving down RO. If that was done eradication would be possible I suggest at which point there can be total relaxation.

In terms of the possibility or otherwise of a vaccine sure there is no certainty. I’ve read that Respiratory viral illnesses are apparently the most difficult to develop a vaccine for because they replicate initially outside the body (nasal cavity) then lungs than in it. There is some possibility should that occur that the only way through then is treatment to prevent death. We are not too far off that possibility remedesivir shown to reduce duration by 30% convalescent plasma shown to be 100% effective when trialed with those critical and ventilated Vit c shown to have 20% impact and zinc lozenges very promising anecdotal use. So perhaps treatment refinement will precede vaccine. Delays to prevent exponential infection are wise either way because one or other will occur. If it comes to pass that an effective treatment can prevent death and over a number of years herd immunity established we get there that way without vaccine. The critical step now and in spite of boredom and economic discomfort is preventing exponential uncontrolled infection. When that occurs it’s a 8% death rate on high infection numbers

 

[Angry Red Bull]

This is exactly right, and as far as I know, that hasn't happened anywhere in the world... The shutdown was all about buying time, right from the very beginning. It had nothing to do with a cure or a vaccine, that was just media shit.

However, I do agree with Nool Carpenna that the lives of the very elderly (say 80+) are deemed less important that maintaining economic growth. And yes, I do understand the need to maintain the growth...

And The King!, Anzac day has nothing to do with respecting the elderly... not sure where that came from??

Kirkswan it is ALL about buying time until a vaccine or effective treatment is available for two reasons. Not folly at all. Firstly if you don’t maintain control and by that I mean transmission at or below 1 the infection will run rampant and 8% will die. Pure Maths it does. And an effective combination treatment is within grasp as we speak. Convalescent plasma used for critically ill ventilated with 100% success. Usually 80% die at that point. Remedesivir shown to reduce duration by 30%. Megadose VIT C shown to reduce replication by 20%. Anectodal evidence that zinc lozenges has dramatic impact 700 NY cases. NO inhalation looks promising. We will get an effective treatment within weeks or worse months. So it would be pure insanity to let the beast loose until then.

I am so thankful that the response is being driven by intelligent scientists and medical professionals who understand these things. God help us if we had an ignorant redneck like Trump in charge

 

[Ticky009]

Kirkswan it is ALL about buying time until a vaccine or effective treatment is available for two reasons. Not folly at all. Firstly if you don’t maintain control and by that I mean transmission at or below 1 the infection will run rampant and 8% will die. Pure Maths it does. And an effective combination treatment is within grasp as we speak. Convalescent plasma used for critically ill ventilated with 100% success. Usually 80% die at that point. Remedesivir shown to reduce duration by 30%. Megadose VIT C shown to reduce replication by 20%. Anectodal evidence that zinc lozenges has dramatic impact 700 NY cases. NO inhalation looks promising. We will get an effective treatment within weeks or worse months. So it would be pure insanity to let the beast loose until then.

I am so thankful that the response is being driven by intelligent scientists and medical professionals who understand these things. God help us if we had an ignorant redneck like Trump in charge

Vitamin D deficiency seems to be another critical factor...bloody knew I should have responded to that Dr sms D shot reminder at the end of last year

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Vitamin D deficiency seems to be another critical factor...bloody knew I should have responded to that Dr sms D shot reminder at the end of last year

Yes I mentioned that previously and it is part of a clinic study examining Combination therapies. Reduces exposure to ARDS by 19% I understand

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Can I ask all that take the view that someone older than 80 has less value to life than others in society and are expendable accordingly in this entire analysis of choices pathways forward re covid 19 that you please review the now numerous articles on record discussing the ageism and discrimination as it relates to covid 19. it is not merely a matter of expressing an opinion if that opinion proves as I firmly believe to be contrary to anti discrimination law. Moderators I ask that policy be discussed at highest level on this board and discreet approaches made to counter these behaviours. I will protect homosexuals I will protect women and i will protect the aged from discrimination if i am compelled to. I agree SF51 that a less confrontational approach is desirable but I will not tolerate obvious discriminatory behaviours. None of us should.

 

[brad cooper]

Personally think this thread has seen its day, now just seems to be one posters crusade.

 

[robbieando]

I say we round up everyone over the age of 80 and float them out to sea. Just my opinion.