Crows 2004, can they get the job done?

[Asgardian]

That time of year again my good Crow mates.

Here to preview the Crows 2004 list, same as I've done for a few years now. This is a genuine attempt at analysis, so if you don't like what I say, that's cool, let's discuss the individual players, but please, no inane flame posts, that helps no-one.

Nathan Bassett:- Had a mixed year, must improve to keep spot, big forwards do trouble him
James Begley:- Only a back up, still lots better options are available
Rhett Biglands:- Good tap-ruckman, great physicality, needs to do more around ground
Nathan Bock:- Has to grab his chance now, may be difficult under the Crow philosophy
Matthew Bode:- Started well, but went backwards in 2003, can't afford to do that again
Ronnie Burns:- He is not improving with age, should retire, DUD, (my Crow wife agrees)
Brett Burton:- Can't deny his good form, a top Crow, but needs to stay fit
Wayne Carey:- Only a few glimpses of former greatness, can still do some good stuff
Matthew Clarke:- Tap-ruckman only, hopeless around the ground
Michael Doughty:- Huge steps backwards in 2003, must find form quick or he's GAWN
Tyson Edwards:- Hugely under-rated by some, as reliable as anyone in league
James Gallagher:- Same as Doughty, doubt he'll survive into 2005
Simon Goodwin:- Surprising trade bait, would love to have him at Port
Ben Hart:- One of the best defenders in the league, ala Bruce Doull
Trent Hentschel:- 2004 is make or break, must turn potential into quality game time
Benjamin Hudson:- Curious selection, keen to see what Fantasia saw in him
Luke Jericho:- Has time on his side, obviously has pace for size, that's important
Graham Johncock:- Electrifying at times, needs a bit more consistency
Joshua Krueger:- More key position than ruck size, should debut fast
Chris Ladhams:- I really dislike this ****y so'n'so, he is no star, but plays okay
Kris Massie:- This guy is a quality player, tough, hard at the ball, been an excellent pick-up
Martin Mattner:- Hasn't got it to be a long term AFL player, will go at end of 2004
Ken McGregor:- I really see a dumb, clumsy lug, but I'm the only one, don't know why
Andrew McLeod:- Impression was he was a bit down, but numbers still good, great player
Ian Perrie:- So hot & cold he should be bathroom taps, gotta like a guy who has grunt
Brent Reilly:- Smart neat player, but he doesn't do enough, maybe lacks confidence
Mark Ricciuto:- Tough, courageous, won the Browny, 'nuff said
Ben Rutten:- Need to see more of him at AFL level, has good size
Jacob Schuback:- Surprised he hasn't had more games, SANFL people really like him
Robert Shirley:- Not good enough for AFL, IMO, better long term options available
Hayden Skipworth:- This is a crazy addition to list, wont be on it in 2004
Nigel Smart :- Will be 35 in 2004, losing some consistency, but a good team player
Tyson Stenglein:- He is the real deal, can do it all, every team will be after him
Mark Stevens:- Injuries may ruin career, very important player if he gets fit
Scott Stevens:- I like him as an alternative forward, good pick-up by Crows
Jason Torney:- Hot & cold, he's not a long term player to my mind
Fergus Watts:- New kid, yet to see him play
Scott Welsh:- Very good forward, but can't string games together, injury is the key

Rookies:

Rowan Andrews:- Yet to see him play, good size
Brad Dabrowski:- Another big kid
Tim Hazell:- This selection surprises me, emergency back up only
Aidan Parker:- Will make it as an AFL player
Matthew Smith:- Amazing choice, 193cm, but plays like a HHF, dud hack


Quality mid-field, solid if uninspiring defence, Ben Hart aside, classy forward line, but it's old & lacks consistency, plus has key players who are/have suffered bad long term injuries, plus rucks who help the mid-field with tap work, but give nothing around the ground.

Crows very much steady as you go approach, relying on injured players coming back, and making an impact.

I cannot see that theory working for a flag, but will be a solid mid, to upper, table club.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Pretty good assesment. I would only disagree with your assesment of Shirley, Torney and McGregor.

To win a premiership every team needs a bit of luck especially with injuries. All things being equal I think we are a top 6 team and with a bit of luck can go all the way.

 

[macca23]

If anything, you might have erred slightly on the harsh side overall, but that is just as likely to be me looking through rose coloured glasses as well.

Pretty good call really.

The only differences I would have are that I think you're way off the mark with McGregor, and both Shirley and Torney would be better than the rating you've given them.

Begley could be a big improver this year as well.

But with these exceptions, good work mate.

 

[Jerome]

I think you're pretty spot on.

I'd only disagree with your comments on Torney and McGregor. I think McGregor has improved. He'a solid performer down back and takes some good marks when he gets a run up forward. KMcG's skills and his disposal still needs work. he still takes his time to get rid of the ball.

There are a few older players in our side who are on their last legs. However, there is a lot of unproven juniors further down the ranks and that is where we really need to improve.

Our junior development coach really needs to get some of the tall utility players we have picked up in the last 12 months coming through the ranks and up to AFL standard. If not, we could be in strife in 2005.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Reasonably fair summation overall Chris.

Originally posted by Asgardian
Nathan Bassett:- Had a mixed year, must improve to keep spot, big forwards do trouble him

Thought he had a good year in 2003 - I think your getting hung up on non-football issues that were dragged through the media. Admit though he doesn't seem to cope well against bigger/stronger opponents.

Originally posted by Asgardian
Rhett Biglands:- Good tap-ruckman, great physicality, needs to do more around ground

Agree. Rhett has surprisingly good agility/speed for someone his size, so expecting him to improve his around the ground work & take over leading the rucks for the Crows.

Originally posted by Asgardian
Ronnie Burns:- He is not improving with age, should retire, DUD, (my Crow wife agrees)

Not a dud - just hot & cold! Played some handy football in 2003 that duds are incapable of. If Schuback develops, then Ronnie will struggle to get a spot in the 22.

Originally posted by Asgardian
Ken McGregor:- I really see a dumb, clumsy lug, but I'm the only one, don't know why

You just can't admit your assessments have been wrong thus far. Kenny continues to improve to be a solid CHB. Just needs to learn to attack more.

Originally posted by Asgardian
Brent Reilly:- Smart neat player, but he doesn't do enough, maybe lacks confidence

The kid is only young, so give him a chance to establish himself! Breaking his collarbone was untimely, but confident he will make a positive impression in 2004.

Originally posted by Asgardian
Robert Shirley:- Not good enough for AFL, IMO, better long term options available

Think your applying Kenny-Syndrome to Shirls. He played very solid footy in 2003 & didn't look out of place. However, probably needs tom improve further to hold off some young guns coming through.

Originally posted by Asgardian
Jason Torney:- Hot & cold, he's not a long term player to my mind

Got this wrong. JT strength is that he plays consisently solid, but unspectacular footy. Only concern is whether more skilled players make edge him out of the side.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Pretty good assessment; but Id add...

Nathan Bassett:- Had a mixed year, must improve to keep spot, big forwards do trouble him

I thought he had a goodyear. He will keep his spot because no one better will present himself. I wish he had more bulk.

James Begley:- Only a back up, still lots better options are available

He needs to be harder, and not a receiving fringe player end of discussion.

Ronnie Burns:- He is not improving with age, should retire, DUD, (my Crow wife agrees)

I agree with your wife.

Wayne Carey:- Only a few glimpses of former greatness, can still do some good stuff

Will shove it down the throats of his detractors this season.

Ben Hart:- One of the best defenders in the league, ala Bruce Doull

I admired the Flying Doormat in his heyday but Benny would run rings around.


Trent Hentschel:- 2004 is make or break, must turn potential into quality game time

Hasnt got it and I cant see him gettin' it.

Martin Mattner:- Hasn't got it to be a long term AFL player, will go at end of 2004

Hasnt got it but may get it if he works on his disposal.

Ken McGregor:- I really see a dumb, clumsy lug, but I'm the only one, don't know why

Has done the job time and again. I think hes great and stepped up a rung or two last season

Jacob Schuback:- Surprised he hasn't had more games, SANFL people really like him

Will make it this year as a regular.

Robert Shirley:- Not good enough for AFL, IMO, better long term options available

LOL. Its Christmas not April Fools Day

Hayden Skipworth:- This is a crazy addition to list, wont be on it in 2004

Worth giving two more seasons

 

[Jars458]

Not only can they but tehy will do the business

More confident of a quality showing this year than I was last year.

Lots of fire in the belly.

 

[Asgardian]

Originally posted by topjars
Pretty good assessment; but Id add...

Wayne Carey:- Only a few glimpses of former greatness, can still do some good stuff

Will shove it down the throats of his detractors this season.

Yeah, I believe Wayne will have a better 2004 than 03, but those shoulders are very restricted. He cannot week in, week out destroy opposition teams, he may do it a couple of times, but that's all now.

Ben Hart:- One of the best defenders in the league, ala Bruce Doull

I admired the Flying Doormat in his heyday but Benny would run rings around.

Gee that's a huge call, Doull is an absolute legend.
Given time I can see Ben Hart getting Hall of Fame honours, but run rings around Doull, no, I'm inclined to see him about equal as the decades pass

Jacob Schuback:- Surprised he hasn't had more games, SANFL people really like him

Will make it this year as a regular.

Good, he deserves to
[/I]

 

[Damp Squarie]

Benny and Bruce have a lot in common, Poise under pressure being the main thing.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Nathan Bassett:- Had a mixed year, must improve to keep spot, big forwards do trouble him

Agreed, will struggle, not because he's not a good player, just the type of FB the club wants for improved flexibilty and more height.

James Begley:- Only a back up, still lots better options are available

Can't understand negativity to Begley, was heaps better than when at St Kilda (fitter). Has poise, speed, height, versatility, and great disposal. Will only get better with time.

Nathan Bock:- Has to grab his chance now, may be difficult under the Crow philosophy

Agreed, needs to be cleaner with ball handling, and use his height and speed to effect. Big ??? whether he can do it.

Matthew Bode:- Started well, but wen
t backwards in 2003, can't afford to do that again

When he's good he's very good, and when he's bad, he's very bad. Doesnt come back from or carry injuries well. Needs to have good 04 or will be trade bait.

Ronnie Burns:- He is not improving with age, should retire, DUD, (my Crow wife agrees)

Strongly disagree. Efforts with Geelong were pitiful. Came to the Crows to do a job - thought he had a good year, brought other players into the game, handed off many goals - not our worst contributor by a long way, and should hold his form in 2004.

Michael Doughty:- Huge steps backwards in 2003, must find form quick or he's GAWN

Agreed, one position player, will need something "special" to hold his position.

Trent Hentschel:- 2004 is make or break, must turn potential into quality game time

Agreed, all the skills, no strength physical or mental, 2004 his year to prove us all wrong.

Luke Jericho:- Has time on his side, obviously has pace for size, that's important

lowest profile of all our recruits - the forgotten man. has some great physical attributes hopefully we can see this year.

Martin Mattner:- Hasn't got it to be a long term AFL player, will go at end of 2004

For second year player he has copped unfair bagging - yes his tagging was woeful, but he's learning the game, and perhaps it was the coach's fault for playing him as a tagger. Has pace, aggression and is learning and will get better 3rd year.

Ben Rutten:- Need to see more of him at AFL level, has good size

Don't know when pace became an issue, wasn't raised this time last year at all. Sometimes a line of thought is created and perpetuated. Goof FF option 2004

Jacob Schuback:- Surprised he hasn't had more games, SANFL people really like him

Like him, pace, real competitor (a classy Bode) good kick, and most of all played his first game like a pro - no nerves very composed - big future 2004

Robert Shirley:- Not good enough for AFL, IMO, better long term options available

Good ordinary player, could be Bickleys replacement or could play the season for WWT.

Tyson Stenglein:- He is the real deal, can do it all, every team will be after him

Sorry, can't follow this - very ordinary 2003. Has good disposal, but most 2003 disposals were rushed kicks/ineffective. Very slow to dispose both hand and foot. Tagging was only average - needs to play alot better to get this wrap.

Scott Stevens:- I like him as an alternative forward, good pick-up by Crows

Got a feeling his way of playing footbal will suit the Crows. Didn't fit Roos style but could be another M Stevens transformation. Good hands, good mark, footbal brains and good vision.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Beginning 0f 2002 all the experts had us as cellar dwellars - we finished top 4.

2003 with advent of Carey, Burns and Tourney, everyone talked up the premiership probability - finished 5th.

2004 lost only Bickley, suddenly losing 1 player, we go from premiership favourite to mid ladder and dropping.

How fickle are we, when we dont know who's going to step up, how the team is going to be composed (many of you have picked last years team with one or 2 newies).
I strongly believe we are in for a better year this year than last year!!!

 

[Asgardian]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Beginning 0f 2002 all the experts had us as cellar dwellars - we finished top 4.

2003 with advent of Carey, Burns and Tourney, everyone talked up the premiership probability - finished 5th.

2004 lost only Bickley, suddenly losing 1 player, we go from premiership favourite to mid ladder and dropping.

How fickle are we, when we dont know who's going to step up, how the team is going to be composed (many of you have picked last years team with one or 2 newies).

Seeing you're a newbie here old son, I'll fill you in with a bit of history.

If memory serves, this is my 4th year of doing club list previews, I do it for each club, not as a smart arse sort of thing to do, but because I genuinely love my footy, and I love talking footy (mmm, heard that somewhere before..... )

Here is the link to the preview I did last year for the Crows

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Asgardian
Seeing you're a newbie here old son, I'll fill you in with a bit of history.

If memory serves, this is my 4th year of doing club list previews, I do it for each club, not as a smart arse sort of thing to do, but because I genuinely love my footy, and I love talking footy (mmm, heard that somewhere before..... )

Here is the link to the preview I did last year for the Crows

My comment was a generalised view, not aimed as a response to any posting.
In fact it was directed more to the media experts.

 

[Leigh Roy]

In fact it was directed more to the media experts.

We have trouble showing him the differences between them and him, that's why he is a bit confused.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by Asgardian
Here is the link to the preview I did last year for the Crows

Asgardian,

I think we all know it's a quite time of year, and it's good to throw some ideas around. That said, I just don't really agree that your analysis has added anything, I guess it doesn't have to on some levels. It hasn't really updated too much from last year, and the performance of various players in 2003 hasn't been incorporated into your assessment.

I doubt I could do a better job on the port list, I am not having a go based on that, it's just if I tried, most people would wonder why I bothered.
Which is probably why this left me a little cold.

 

[noddy]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Asgardian,

I think we all know it's a quite time of year, and it's good to throw some ideas around. That said, I just don't really agree that your analysis has added anything, I guess it doesn't have to on some levels. It hasn't really updated too much from last year, and the performance of various players in 2003 hasn't been incorporated into your assessment.

I doubt I could do a better job on the port list, I am not having a go based on that, it's just if I tried, most people would wonder why I bothered.
Which is probably why this left me a little cold.

Used to think Asgadian tended to ramble on a bit & came across as a bit of a know-all but i have warmed to him slightly over time & don't mind his assessment of Crow players even though some of them (Shirley & McGregor are 2) are way off the mark.

For an old fella he's ok & as he said he seems to genuinely like footy & not as one-eyed as most Pap supporters.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Asgardian,

I think we all know it's a quite time of year, and it's good to throw some ideas around. That said, I just don't really agree that your analysis has added anything, I guess it doesn't have to on some levels. It hasn't really updated too much from last year, and the performance of various players in 2003 hasn't been incorporated into your assessment.

I doubt I could do a better job on the port list, I am not having a go based on that, it's just if I tried, most people would wonder why I bothered.
Which is probably why this left me a little cold.

On the contrary, I think it's a good reality check at times to have an outsider's point of view on the players that we look at through rose coloured classes.

In the main he's done a good job, and while I disagree with some of his assessments, and others have their disagreements, that all comes down to a difference of opinion which is subjective and promotes discussion. I would have thought that was good for a discussion Board.

The one glaring nonsense IMO in his assessments for the past 2 years is that of Kenny Mcgregor, as they defy reality. They really do.

Kenny must have crapped in the front seat of his car to earn such displeasure!!

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Attention Crow-mosone

I agree with noddy & Macca. We should be encouraging opposition supporters to come on our board to give their opinions. Only adds value to our discussion (as long as it is not personally abusive). Keep up the good work Chris.

 

[PAfolwr]

Re: Attention Crow-mosone

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
I agree with noddy & Macca. We should be encouraging opposition supporters to come on our board to give their opinions. Only adds value to our discussion (as long as it is not personally abusive). Keep up the good work Chris.

If I remember macca23 did one of Port last year, and it was good to see someone else's opinion of our players.

IMO not too much has changed wrt the crows from last year.
Yes McGregor did seem to improve somewhat last year, but is still in no way number one tall material, and out of the games I saw, I didn't think Burns was that bad. In fact he did a number of good unselfish things. I know I am stating the obvious, but your talls were the problem in your forward line. Or at least their "fitness" was.
Will they be fit this year? That is the question.

 

[macca23]

Re: Re: Attention Crow-mosone

Originally posted by PAfolwr
If I remember macca23 did one of Port last year, and it was good to see someone else's opinion of our players.

I certainly did, and here's the link to last year's.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55834&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

The most points of disagreement from the Port posters were in respect of Guerra, Hardwick, Stevens and Koulouriotis, but I think I ended up on these on points.

Also got it pretty right in terms of Ackland, Brogan, Cockatoo-Collins, Morgan and Paxman.

If I get a spare few moments in the next few days I'm planning to do another one for 2004

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Re: Re: Re: Attention Crow-mosone

Originally posted by macca23
I certainly did, and here's the link to last year's.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55834&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

The most points of disagreement from the Port posters were in respect of Guerra, Hardwick, Stevens and Koulouriotis, but I think I ended up on these on points.

Also got it pretty right in terms of Ackland, Brogan, Cockatoo-Collins, Morgan and Paxman.

If I get a spare few moments in the next few days I'm planning to do another one for 2004

Great thread that one Macca. Particularly like the bit where I questioned as to whether Nick Stevens will be still at Port in 2004.

 

[PAfolwr]

That is why assessments done by other team supporters are good.
Sometimes they tend to say what we think but are too kind to say so ourselves, or is it hopeful.

The improvement in McGregor is a good example. Crow supporters are so happy he has finally improved enough to be in the 22 when in reality from a non Crow supporter he is probably still only a big bodied third tall.
Is he better than Bishop? That is wrt the team as they are different players.

I do think you were harsh on Stevens and Schofield (the shortening strides bit is an exaggeration), but I'll certainly look forward to your next one.

 

[marvin]

Thanks for your thoughts, Asgardian.

As much as it is heresy amongst Crows supporters, I agree with you about Shirley, and I'm somewhere between you and the majority on Kenny McG.