Crows reserve side

[jo172]

Crows have 6 rucks right now, play 2 in the AFL and you've still got 4 playing 'reserves' if all are fit.

You'll never get anywhere arguing reason with C98

Pretending a Crows reserves side is a totally positive thing even just considering the Crows is flawed for the purposes you've just outlined.

C98's hypothesis has our young list in a perpetual state where it is planned that every player is an AFL player in waiting for a specific, pre-planned position. Of course we all know that injuries, growth, new skills or general shit football skills happens blowing this apart.

I'd love to hear named any single player who the current system has worked to the detriment of.

Hell, the only Crows who have experienced success after leaving are Hudson, Mattner, Stenglein and Welsh, all victims of being barstadised by a SANFL set up

Whereas the blokes who people have claimed at different times aren't being used the right way by their SANFL clubs like Meesen, Watts and Parker generally don't end up as AFL players.

I have a strong policy on sleeping dogs.

 

[Alex99]

Crows have 6 rucks right now, play 2 in the AFL and you've still got 4 playing 'reserves' if all are fit.

2 would play AFL – let’s say Maric and Griffin (just examples)

Brad Moran and Sam Shaw would play in the magoos as ruckmen

Jimmy Sellar long term position is as a key position player – FB, CHB, CHF or FF or he would take one of theses positions

Shaun McKernan same as Sellar – best long term position is as a CHF or CHB
There are your 6 ruckman and where they will play.

It’s not sustainable to have 6 specialist ruckmen on your list at any given time.

 

[Alex99]

Whereas the blokes who people have claimed at different times aren't being used the right way by their SANFL clubs like Meesen, Watts and Parker generally don't end up as AFL players.

Maybe by then, they have wasted 2 – 3 years of precious development time and cannot catch up. Being ****ed around by people who don’t really care about your development can have that adverse effect.

 

[sigur]

2 would play AFL – let’s say Maric and Griffin (just examples)

Brad Moran and Sam Shaw would play in the magoos as ruckmen

Jimmy Sellar long term position is as a key position player – FB, CHB, CHF or FF or he would take one of theses positions

Shaun McKernan same as Sellar – best long term position is as a CHF or CHB
There are your 6 ruckman and where they will play.

It’s not sustainable to have 6 specialist ruckmen on your list at any given time.

And where's James Craig playing? With Griff & Maric rucking for the AFL you've obviously got Tippet as a permanent full forward, so Walker must be FF in the reserves and too bad if you want to try to train up another specialist FF cos you've run out of spots.

Spreading players out over the SANFL gives you more flexibility not less. Who do you think is played out of position in the SANFL?

 

[Alex99]

And where's James Craig playing? With Griff & Maric rucking for the AFL you've obviously got Tippet as a permanent full forward, so Walker must be FF in the reserves and too bad if you want to try to train up another specialist FF cos you've run out of spots.

Spreading players out over the SANFL gives you more flexibility not less. Who do you think is played out of position in the SANFL?

**** off –go see my first post in this thread. A reserves side is not going to happen (it should but it won’t) and arguing about it just pointless.

You win; you’re the king of the castle and the most knowable supporter to ever live.

Seriously, if this is what you believe will happen, I’m not giving a **** anymore.

 

[jo172]

Maybe by then, they have wasted 2 – 3 years of precious development time and cannot catch up. Being ****ed around by people who don’t really care about your development can have that adverse effect.

I don't buy it. There's a natural attrition rate amongst footballers where the sad fact is that some just won't make it. In reality those who you defend as having being ****ed around in their development were in the same position as blokes like Tom Lee, they just didn't have the necassary qualities to be AFL footballers.

In my time the reserves argument was at it's strongest during the Ayres and early Craig years when young players were not easily breaking into the team and when they did they weren't looking very comfortable. I believe that was mainly due to the relatively low AFL aptitude of the new players then to the current list.

Hell do you honestly think that messrs Walker, Tippett, Vince, Porplyzia, Mackay, Vince and Otten would have been any better in a reserves set up?

Even the blokes who don't have a great SANFL experience initially such as Tony Armstrong actually seem to gain something from having to fight through the relative adversity they struggle through if they have the necassary qualities to be AFL players.

 

[Vader]

And where's James Craig playing? With Griff & Maric rucking for the AFL you've obviously got Tippet as a permanent full forward, so Walker must be FF in the reserves and too bad if you want to try to train up another specialist FF cos you've run out of spots.

Spreading players out over the SANFL gives you more flexibility not less. Who do you think is played out of position in the SANFL?

Brian Donnelly was recently moved from Glenelg to Centrals for this very reason. The tigers were never going to play him anywhere other than as a stay-at-home full forwards. The Crows wanted him to be able to develop his game more, so they moved him to Centrals where they've been promised that he'll be used more up the field.

 

[Alex99]

And where's James Craig playing? With Griff & Maric rucking for the AFL you've obviously got Tippet as a permanent full forward, so Walker must be FF in the reserves and too bad if you want to try to train up another specialist FF cos you've run out of spots.

Just to answer your question, don’t forget, hypothetically if the Adelaide Football Club had a reserves side, they would have 6 tall forwards sports to play with and 6 defensive tall positions to play with. 3 forward sports in the AFL and 3 forward sports in the magoos, as well as the same for the defenders. Not just the 2 at full forward as you so rightfully pointed out.

So Kurt Tippett and Taylor Walker wouldn’t have anything to worry about. Anyway, hypothetically if Kurt Tippett was to get dropped to the reserves, he wouldn’t play as a key forward, in all likelihood he would play as a ruckman and if this happened, someone like Brad Moran would come into the AFL side.

Also just so you don’t get too worried about James Sellar and Shaun McKernan, if the Adelaide Football Club had a reserves side, they would be able to play as either a tall forward or defender and develop that way. They cannot do this at the moment (well McKernan can as South are shit and don’t worry about winning) as it’s not Glenelg responsibility to develop Adelaide Crows players.

Spreading players out over the SANFL gives you more flexibility not less. Who do you think is played out of position in the SANFL?

Before Kurt Tippett, how come it has taken the AFC so long to develop a key forward? Who was our last, someone named Tony Modra and that was 13 years ago.
And we are struggling to develop s small crumbing forward and Mathew Bode was our last real one of theses and he played 4 or 5 years ago.

Why? Because we cannot control the development and positional play of our own players.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

In my time the reserves argument was at it's strongest during the Ayres and early Craig years when young players were not easily breaking into the team and when they did they weren't looking very comfortable. I believe that was mainly due to the relatively low AFL aptitude of the new players then to the current list.

The call for a reserves team was at its strongest in 1994-96 when our results were poor. Every second talkback phone call was about what was wrong with the Crows and how to fix them. We needed a reserves team, we needed to change our bumblebee guernsey, we needed a better club song, we needed a fiercer animal than a Crow as our logo, we didn't have our own clubrooms to go back to, were too closely linked with Glenelg FC, we were a franchise without our own history and tradition to call upon...

All this crap that we thought was important at the time but learnt in the next couple of years actually didn't matter.

 

[Truck25]

I think we are looking at this all wrong.

The perfect course of action is to let the Magpies die a slow pianfull and embarasing death they deserve!

then there are 8 teams in the SANFL.
4 align to the Crows - Sturt, Norwood, Glenelg and South
4 align to power (who will to save embarsment of being associated with the magies drop the name port and gain a little respectability) - North, West, WWT and Centrals.

That way none of our boys have to play with a power player, The SANFL teams get more Crow/Power supporters to SANFL games to see the kids coming through playing together. It would make it easier for the SANFL and the AFL clubs as the SANFL clubs only have to liase with one AFL club

 

[birdmanptr]

2 would play AFL – let’s say Maric and Griffin (just examples)

Brad Moran and Sam Shaw would play in the magoos as ruckmen

Jimmy Sellar long term position is as a key position player – FB, CHB, CHF or FF or he would take one of theses positions

Shaun McKernan same as Sellar – best long term position is as a CHF or CHB
There are your 6 ruckman and where they will play.

It’s not sustainable to have 6 specialist ruckmen on your list at any given time.

Sellar and McKernan would benifit heaps if the Crows had a magoos as would have Chalmers

 

[cocka]

then there are 8 teams in the SANFL.
4 align to the Crows - Sturt, Norwood, Glenelg and South
4 align to power (who will to save embarsment of being associated with the magies drop the name port and gain a little respectability) - North, West, WWT and Centrals.

That way none of our boys have to play with a power player, The SANFL teams get more Crow/Power supporters to SANFL games to see the kids coming through playing together. It would make it easier for the SANFL and the AFL clubs as the SANFL clubs only have to liase with one AFL club

I like this, I like this a lot.

 

[jo172]

Sellar and McKernan would benifit heaps if the Crows had a magoos as would have Chalmers

Errr Chalmers? The bloke is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. Despite his reputed talent (and the fact he was a pretty nice bloke) the man played at 3 AFL clubs.

At some time regardless of perceived injustices in the development stage you're either good enough or not. Chalmers was not

 

[Vader]

then there are 8 teams in the SANFL.
4 align to the Crows - Sturt, Norwood, Glenelg and South
4 align to power (who will to save embarsment of being associated with the magies drop the name port and gain a little respectability) - North, West, WWT and Centrals.

That way none of our boys have to play with a power player, The SANFL teams get more Crow/Power supporters to SANFL games to see the kids coming through playing together. It would make it easier for the SANFL and the AFL clubs as the SANFL clubs only have to liase with one AFL club

This makes a lot more sense than a stand-alone Crows reserve side.

 

[RoosterLad]

I also like the idea. The only problem I have is what happens to the players who were drafted from an SANFL club?

Would Matty Wright have to join the gay bays or a team like that?

 

[Vader]

I also like the idea. The only problem I have is what happens to the players who were drafted from an SANFL club?

Would Matty Wright have to join the gay bays or a team like that?

This is definitely a concern, but one I could live with (noting that 50% of all SANFL draftees would be able to stay with their clubs anyway - at least on average).

 

[Huntercrow]

North Adelaide must have a short memory.



If Port go under, everything in the SANFL will change. League sponsership wont be worth as much, crowds and membership will go down, as would TV ratings. Not only would they lose their biggest club, but they would also lose the club with the biggest growth potential.


Not only that but Port do probably the best job in the league at developing underage footballing talent.


And IMO I reckon its pretty pathetic all those people wishing for them to fold, especially anyone who follows North, Westies, Sturt, Norwood or WWT, or infact any club that has come close to folding.

Perhaps what comes around goes around.
Remember the Port debacle of 1990, willing to negotiate with the AFL behind the backs of the SANFL.
Don`t be so surprised that this little bit of treachery will pay a part in this decision

 

[Papa G]

Perhaps what comes around goes around.
Remember the Port debacle of 1990, willing to negotiate with the AFL behind the backs of the SANFL.
Don`t be so surprised that this little bit of treachery will pay a part in this decision

I like this attitude. Kill off the Magpies. Not sure it is the best interests of the SANFL, but short term gratification is what the new millenium is all about.

 

[twentydollarnote]

i wrote on the SANFL board that we (the crows) should be putting money into the Port Magpies to keep them alive to ensure that the port power identity crisis remains, but ford fairlane deleted that post for some reason.

As our direct competitors we shouldnt be approving anything that helps port power one bit, i like them how they are now broke and disillusioned. All they’re doing with their new CEO is testing how much they can get out of the SANFL. Anyone who disagrees and wants to help the power, just think back to how graceful williams and co are when they’re winning.

 

[beartoo]

I think we are looking at this all wrong.

then there are 8 teams in the SANFL.
4 align to the Crows - Sturt, Norwood, Glenelg and South
4 align to power (who will to save embarsment of being associated with the magies drop the name port and gain a little respectability) - North, West, WWT and Centrals.

That way none of our boys have to play with a power player, The SANFL teams get more Crow/Power supporters to SANFL games to see the kids coming through playing together. It would make it easier for the SANFL and the AFL clubs as the SANFL clubs only have to liase with one AFL club

Best idea I've seen on this thread.

 

[twentydollarnote]

the magpies are the biggest draw card spectator wise still in the SANFL, unless you dont care about the SANFL, its a terrible idea.

 

[CharlieM]

I like this attitude. Kill off the Magpies. Not sure it is the best interests of the SANFL, but short term gratification is what the new millenium is all about.

It's interesting reading about this topic here. I always knew the non Port supporters didn't like us but the hate is unbelievable.............I'm sure you can justify it but at what expense.

I'm assuming you all have your sanfl sides you follow as well as the crows, so I was wondering if both SA AFL clubs became there own entity ie break away from the sanfl, as a result of this non-merger, how would you feel about this.
Your team and mine (AFL) would become stronger financially being free to re-negotiate with the sanfl or the SACA or whoever for a better stadium deal etc etc. The down side for my sanfl club is that it dies and for your sanfl club is the comp it plays it will become a lesser comp without the money generated by the AFL clubs and hence not be able to pay decent money to attract the better players etc etc.

A natural consequence would be that state leagues like the WAFL and the VFL become stronger than the sanfl. Not to mention that overall crowd numbers will reduce without the Port Adelaide Magpies competing.

I certainly don't expect any of you to suddenly not hate Port but I think it may be a case of cutting of your nose to spite your face.
Not that any of you have any real say in what happens but I'm just interested to hear your opinion if the above were to happen.

 

[ExpectToWin]

If the Adelaide Football Club had a reserves team competing against the other 9 South Australian clubs, could you:

A) Still market yourselves as 'The Team for all South Australians'?

B) Would you still be the 'Pride of South Australia'?

These 2 lines were born in part from the fact that Adelaide in the early days before the Port Adelaide Football Club JOINED the AFL were representing our state in the Big League.

Make no mistake about it, in the early days of the Crows, there was far more Anti-VIC sentiment than anti the club the Crows were playing on the day. There was a definate State Football mentality (Yes I did go the the games). That has I imagine subsided as the years have passed by.

In the past when we have had the Heritage Rounds, Adelaide fully embraced the concept of representing all SANFL clubs and recognising them as the reason they existed in the first place. They could no longer do this as they would now be the opposition. (no big deal but food for thought)

These are only trivial things but are things that would be discussed by the management of Adelaide if the option of having a reserves was on the table.

 

[Pietmans]

Is it possible that dollars are the motivating factor in the Port Magpies/Power amalgamation decision?

Taking all of the emotion out of it, the factor that is a plus for the Power apparently is getting the Prince of Wales Hotel in the deal. The Magpies don't have the cash to renovate it to bring it up to or past the standard of the local competition, that goes without saying. But the Power don't have that sort of cash either. What will it take $2M, $3M or $4M?

The Power surely wouldn't find it easy to borrow that sort of money based on their lack of profitability and because (as my Port friends have led me to believe) there is already significant debt against the hotel.

Is a part of this proposal that the SANFL provides the cash to do it up or alternatively guarantees a loan to provide the funds? Given the recent history with Collingwood's huge losses on hotel ventures there is no guarantee that this move will be successful, and the SANFL clubs would have to think long and hard about such a deal because even a guarantee may end up with them having to put the money in.

Absolutely nothing has been said publicly about this aspect, but to me it would be crucial.

Allowing the Magpies to go under if the Power could raise the capital themselves to renovate and operate the hotel would just be vindictiveness I think.

But refusing to get involved in the provision of more long term debt for the Power would simply be a business decision.

Does anyone know anything?

 

[twentydollarnote]

It's interesting reading about this topic here. I always knew the non Port supporters didn't like us but the hate is unbelievable.............I'm sure you can justify it but at what expense.

I'm assuming you all have your sanfl sides you follow as well as the crows, so I was wondering if both SA AFL clubs became there own entity ie break away from the sanfl, as a result of this non-merger, how would you feel about this.
Your team and mine (AFL) would become stronger financially being free to re-negotiate with the sanfl or the SACA or whoever for a better stadium deal etc etc. The down side for my sanfl club is that it dies and for your sanfl club is the comp it plays it will become a lesser comp without the money generated by the AFL clubs and hence not be able to pay decent money to attract the better players etc etc.

A natural consequence would be that state leagues like the WAFL and the VFL become stronger than the sanfl. Not to mention that overall crowd numbers will reduce without the Port Adelaide Magpies competing.

I certainly don't expect any of you to suddenly not hate Port but I think it may be a case of cutting of your nose to spite your face.
Not that any of you have any real say in what happens but I'm just interested to hear your opinion if the above were to happen.

Dont delude yourself mate that we all hate port, you guys are a bit of a non-factor these days, we only want whats best for the crows.