Damien Drum and Mark Harvey - similarities?

[estibador]

I know it's only round 2 and this shouldn't be interpreted as a call to sack the coach but I'm starting to feel a bit of deja vu.

- They both took over from somewhat eccentric coaches who had moulded flaky, erratic, inconsistent teams.

- Both were hailed as being good old fashioned coaches who would straighten out those teams.

- Both coaches won instant favour with the fans by holding on to their draft picks instead of trading them away like their predecessors.

- Despite high hopes, both took the team backwards win-wise in their first year and only then proclaimed that they needed to rebuild.

- Drum's rebuild made us more consistent all right - consistently shit. We knew what we were going to get from week to week and it wasn't good.

- The signs are ominous so far this year that we have gone backwards at the speed of light at the start of Harvey's rebuild - which would be understandable if we were playing heaps of kids, but we're pretty much playing the same squad as last year + Hill and Suban.

Now before everyone jumps on my case I'm not writing Harves off as another Drum yet, but I am starting to get a little concerned. He's had two preseasons to mould the team and our skills, decision making and even our intensity seem to have gone backwards from the CC days - and there seems to be a complete lack of any working gameplan. Not to mention the completely mystifying decisions made at the selection table.

One thing he has done is made us more consistent - which was ok last year but so far this year looks dangerously close to the Drum model of playing consistently shit.

 

[Stronzo]

Lets not go overboard..

 

[ImperialPurple]

Stop it esti. You're scaring me.

 

[believe_it]

Yes they are both useless . What is one area that Harvey has improved ? I cant think of anything

 

[MadMac]

Wow, bit too early...

 

[malpaso]

Pretty good point Esti.

However, to me it looks like the players are still in preseason. Their intensity is rubbish as a whole. At the start of the game, the only guy who goes 110% is Schammer siren to siren.

Our forward line is the problem, we are getting the ball in there but it's with no skill and no set plan. Pavlich is half the player he was last year, must be injured. There is and never has been any space in our forward line.

I hope with a home game on the horizon or the derby looming they will snap out of it.

 

[Bradesmaen]

I fail to see how we have gone backwards. We've never beaten Essendon over there and lost to the Bulldogs last year.. How is that backwards? we look just as bad as last year.

Harvey can't mark the ball for them, can't kick the ball for them, can't make the decision in a split second for them. Thats the parts that are missing in our game. Structure is fine, gameplan is fine.

 

[The Night Shift]

I'm with you esti. NF is angry. The time machine has engulfed my beloved FFC.... The reality is staring us in the face unfortuately

 

[Ripper]

Bit early to say yet Esti.

There does seem to be a similarity in results after the 3/4 time address.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

All I know is that we would've had a fair bit of dollars freed up in the cap due to retirements last year, and while its good stocking up on youth, we could've gone for 1 decent player.

 

[westy1]

this is exactly what i was thinking from about half way through the second quarter on.

 

[The Night Shift]

All I know is that we would've had a fair bit of dollars freed up in the cap due to retirements last year, and while its good stocking up on youth, we could've gone for 1 decent player.

Hasn't worked in the past, and that tactic has got us to where we are now....

 

[dominguez]

The circumstances are similar to Drum, but personality wise Harvey is more like Connolly. Both of them are morons, it would be nice to have a coach who actually comes across as knowledgeable and intelligent.

 

[Ysaye]

Pretty good point Esti.

However, to me it looks like the players are still in preseason. Their intensity is rubbish as a whole. At the start of the game, the only guy who goes 110% is Schammer siren to siren.

Our forward line is the problem, we are getting the ball in there but it's with no skill and no set plan. Pavlich is half the player he was last year, must be injured. There is and never has been any space in our forward line.

I hope with a home game on the horizon or the derby looming they will snap out of it.

I am not sure how it can be the forward line be the problem for how it gets there (Certainly though we don't have the goalkickers with good tackling skills at the feet to keep it in). Are our forwards not leading well? (Not that I know who are forwards are because one minute they are back or in the midfield).

There isn't any space in the forward line because we don't move it there quickly enough.

Intensity is fine, but intensity with the brains of a headless chicken is not. I'd rather calm and collected with great skill to be quite honest.

 

[dominguez]

All I know is that we would've had a fair bit of dollars freed up in the cap due to retirements last year, and while its good stocking up on youth, we could've gone for 1 decent player.

Who? And what would you have given up?

 

[estibador]

I fail to see how we have gone backwards. We've never beaten Essendon over there and lost to the Bulldogs last year.. How is that backwards? we look just as bad as last year.

Are you kidding me? We look a lot worse so far than last year.

Last year we always turned up to play with the right intensity and we were a good chance to win most of our games up until halfway through the last quarter. We've been pathetic in our two games this year,

Harvey can't mark the ball for them, can't kick the ball for them, can't make the decision in a split second for them.

No but he can drill them at training until all that becomes second nature.

Look at slick, well drilled outfits like the Crows or the Swans who always play better than the sum of their parts. It can't be some coincidence that comes about because they only recruit super-intelligent players - it's because they've been brilliantly drilled by their coaches.

We, on the other hand, always seem to play worse than the sum of our parts - and have done for most of the last decade.

Thats the parts that are missing in our game. Structure is fine, gameplan is fine.

Bullshit our structure is fine.

We lack class in the midfield so we play our most silky, classy young midfielder as a bloody defender where he gets towelled up.

We have one of the most talented fullbacks in the league but we continually play him up forward as a pinch hitter while our backline leaks like a sieve.

We have possibly the best forward in the game yet we insist on playing him in the midfield where he becomes just another good player.

We have the most dominant ruckman in the league yet we often can't seem to set up a proper midfield structure around him to take advantage of it.

Our rolling zone is a complete shambles that leaves teams acres of free space to whisk the ball from one end to the other under no pressure.

etc

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

All I know is that we would've had a fair bit of dollars freed up in the cap due to retirements last year, and while its good stocking up on youth, we could've gone for 1 decent player.

because there were so many good WA boys wanting to come home?? or because it has worked so well for us in the past

harvey needs to just give up on some players... we all know them, gilmore will never be a good player, nor will brown, thornton or head..... all are out of contract at the end of this year (thornton may be next year) we need to have another big cull this year

the real worry for me is guys like johnson, mundy, crowley, ibbotson.... who just havent improve....... maybe we should take a leaf out of hawthorns book, if a player isnt performing, trade them.... get picks for them.... im not saying get rid of crowley or ibbo btw, but michael johnson in my opinion should be offloaded this year, we would probably get an ok pick for him, and no longer would we have to deal with his lack lustre performances and unwillingness to work

you know what the funny thing is, after two rounds i think the two players leading our B&F would be peake and solomon... that says it all

 

[Bradesmaen]

I could respond to that, but it'd be tl;dr. However, I'll just say that we are not far worse than last year, ok we are slightly worse, but we are down on experience. Guys like Browne and Duffield barely played last year, add to that Hill and Suban and you've got a fair bit of inexperience around.

You're getting structure confused with skills Esti, structure is fine, execution of skills kills the structure though.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Are you kidding me? We look a lot worse so far than last year.

Last year we always turned up to play with the right intensity and we were a good chance to win most of our games up until halfway through the last quarter. We've been pathetic in our two games this year,



No but he can drill them at training until all that becomes second nature.

Look at slick, well drilled outfits like the Crows or the Swans who always play better than the sum of their parts. It can't be some coincidence that comes about because they only recruit super-intelligent players - it's because they've been brilliantly drilled by their coaches.

We, on the other hand, always seem to play worse than the sum of our parts - and have done for most of the last decade.



Bullshit our structure is fine.

We lack class in the midfield so we play our most silky, classy young midfielder as a bloody defender where he gets towelled up.

We have one of the most talented fullbacks in the league but we continually play him up forward as a pinch hitter while our backline leaks like a sieve.

We have possibly the best forward in the game yet we insist on playing him in the midfield where he becomes just another good player.

We have the most dominant ruckman in the league yet we often can't seem to set up a proper midfield structure around him to take advantage of it.

Our rolling zone is a complete shambles that leaves teams acres of free space to whisk the ball from one end to the other under no pressure.

etc

i must say, as much as i hate to think of it like that, but you are dead right

 

[purplepassion82]

Structure is fine, gameplan is fine.

Gameplan? What is this 'gameplan' you speak of??

 

[The Night Shift]

You're getting structure confused with skills Esti, structure is fine, execution of skills kills the structure though.

Are yous serious Brades? I admire your optmism but the reality is we are unskilled rabble with no discernable structure. The television and scoreboard do not lie. We are playing like wooden spooners... The blunt reality is right there staring at us. Not a hint of improvement from last week either...

 

[Sandi2Palmer]

because there were so many good wa boys wanting to come home?? Or because it has worked so well for us in the past

Harvey needs to just give up on some players... We all know them, gilmore will never be a good player, nor will brown, thornton or head..... All are out of contract at the end of this year (thornton may be next year) we need to have another big cull this year

the real worry for me is guys like johnson, mundy, crowley, ibbotson.... Who just havent improve....... Maybe we should take a leaf out of hawthorns book, if a player isnt performing, trade them.... Get picks for them.... Im not saying get rid of crowley or ibbo btw, but michael johnson in my opinion should be offloaded this year, we would probably get an ok pick for him, and no longer would we have to deal with his lack lustre performances and unwillingness to work

you know what the funny thing is, after two rounds i think the two players leading our b&f would be peake and solomon... That says it all

soloman played his first game today.

 

[estibador]

You're getting structure confused with skills Esti, structure is fine, execution of skills kills the structure though.

I'm pretty sure leaving Ibbo to get flogged in the backline when we desperately need his pace and class in the midfield is a structure issue, not a skills issue.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Are yous serious Brades? I admire your optmism but the reality is we are unskilled rabble with no discernable structure. The television and scoreboard do not lie. We are playing like wooden spooners... The blunt reality is right there staring at us. Not a hint of improvement from last week either...

You misread that NF, surely. I never said we were skilled. My point is you can have all the structure you like, but if you can't use the ball it will fail. Buddy Franklin and Pavlich up forward left two out wouldn't have mattered today because we wouldn't have been able to give them a decent ball to attack. The only structure that would have worked today would have been slowly chipping the ball for about 20 mins at a time, preventing Essendon from actually scoring.

 

[Bradesmaen]

I'm pretty sure leaving Ibbo to get flogged in the backline when we desperately need his pace and class in the midfield is a structure issue, not a skills issue.

Nah, thats just a coaching issue. We had the players to play there, he just didn't want to use them. Tarrant could have gone back there, or even Johnson.