Player Watch Daniel Curtin

[cmndstab]

I think they'd be pretty upset after knowing what deal GWS actually took

In the end, I think GWS essentially decided not to do a trade. Most clubs were offering a trade that took them out of the first round and gave them draft capital next year, but they didn't want to leave the first round. They wanted to take Gothard, and weren't convinced they could get him with their second pick.

In contrast, we proposed a simple trade that mildly improved their overall hand without costing them access to Gothard. Our trade offer was essentially "let us get ahead to take Curtin, and you can still take Gothard and then improve your other pick a couple of places, and we'll even throw in a future second as a sweetener". If they were keen on Gothard with their first selection, they'd be silly not to take the offer.

We were just the fortunate recipients of GWS not needing a tall defender. Win-win for both clubs.

 

[1970crow]

Yeah agree cant hate Danger as tried his guts out for the club. He was B&F the year he left us. Just painful knowing he was our best ever castaway made worse winning the Brownlow the next year. Leaving after Walsh death was hard also but that may have helped make his decision to start afresh.

Re Wells comments though..not sure how they would have done this when on the first day of trading they traded away one of the possible 2 first rounders available (next years) to Blues for Henderson. Not sure how they expected to give us a second first rounder in this situation but anyway hopefully they have a few lean years coming up before the benefactors open their wallets again

Danger was traded before Henderson.

 

[1970crow]

they immediately took it off the table and traded that to Blues for Henderson. Not sure where Wells is thinking he would have given us 2 x first rounders..

No, Danger was the first trade that year. You’re making stuff up to excuse bad trading by the club.

 

[adelaidecrows]

In the end, I think GWS essentially decided not to do a trade. Most clubs were offering a trade that took them out of the first round and gave them draft capital next year, but they didn't want to leave the first round. They wanted to take Gothard, and weren't convinced they could get him with their second pick.

In contrast, we proposed a simple trade that mildly improved their overall hand without costing them access to Gothard. Our trade offer was essentially "let us get ahead to take Curtin, and you can still take Gothard and then improve your other pick a couple of places, and we'll even throw in a future second as a sweetener". If they were keen on Gothard with their first selection, they'd be silly not to take the offer.

We were just the fortunate recipients of GWS not needing a tall defender. Win-win for both clubs.

West Coast have themselves to blame. They could have easily swapped the number 1 pick for the 2nd or 3rd pick and pick 7 or 8. But they were intent on Reid. Thats what cost them Curtin. Could have had two genuinely gun players but came away with just one and nothing else.

 

[hippyhippy]

West Coast have themselves to blame. They could have easily swapped the number 1 pick for the 2nd or 3rd pick and pick 7 or 8. But they were intent on Reid. Thats what cost them Curtin. Could have had two genuinely gun players but came away with just one and nothing else.

Was there actually any offers though? There didn't seem to be any serious offers for 1 ... I think the crows are stupidly the only team to have offered such overs for a pick 1 ... And north were the only team to have declined

 

[Crow till I die]

Talk of WCE swapping pick 1 for 2 or 3 and 7 or 8 (if the club wanting pick 1 could have secured the second of those picks) may mean in holistic terms - applying it to a set of players assuming they live up to the hype, WCE giving up McLeod (Reid) for Goodwin (McKercher) & Bock (Curtin) for example

Would we rather McLeod or Goody and Bock to be building a team around?

 

[GreyCrow]

Danger was traded before Henderson.

I still maintain we should have held Geelong to more account. We knew they wanted Henderson yet we got out of their way with a back down

Oops we crushed them with Dean Gore though

 

[cmndstab]

My memory of the Dangerfield trade was that Geelong essentially said "look, we're giving a first-round pick for Henderson. We've got this year's and next year's, we're not trading for another. Whichever club gets the deal done first gets to choose which one they want." There was no chance whatsoever we were going to get both, because Geelong always had the get-out-of-jail card of just taking Dangerfield as a free agent if things went pear-shaped.

We took pick 9 rather than taking the future first. Pick 28 and Dean Gore were just steak knives.

 

[GreyCrow]

My memory of the Dangerfield trade was that Geelong essentially said "look, we're giving a first-round pick for Henderson. We've got this year's and next year's, we're not trading for another. Whichever club gets the deal done first gets to choose which one they want." There was no chance whatsoever we were going to get both, because Geelong always had the get-out-of-jail card of just taking Dangerfield as a free agent if things went pear-shaped.

We took pick 9 rather than taking the future first. Pick 28 and Dean Gore were just steak knives.

We blinked. The deal was done first morning of the trade period

 

[cmndstab]

We blinked. The deal was done first morning of the trade period

What does "blinked" mean in this context? Are you implying there was a realistic chance of getting both? There wasn't.

We took the best of the bad options presented to us that were only going to get worse as time went on. Sitting there grimly hoping for a better outcome that was never going to come would have been silly.

The real shame is wasting pick 28 (packaging it with Kerridge to get Menzel) and taking Milera with 9 who, while still a decent player, hasn't proved he was worth that pick.

 

[GreyCrow]

What does "blinked" mean in this context? Are you implying there was a realistic chance of getting both? There wasn't.

We took the best of the bad options presented to us that were only going to get worse as time went on. Sitting there grimly hoping for a better outcome that was never going to come would have been silly.

The real shame is wasting pick 28 (packaging it with Kerridge to get Menzel) and taking Milera with 9 who, while still a decent player, hasn't proved he was worth that pick.

Of course we had a chance at a better deal. We didn't even explore it.

We allowed the team in the weakest position to dictate terms.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Of course we had a chance at a better deal. We didn't even explore it.

We allowed the team in the weakest position to dictate terms.

I think you need to go on a Harvard Business School refresher course

 

[GreyCrow]

I think you need to go on a Harvard Business School refresher course

That was going to be my line!

 

[cmndstab]

We allowed the team in the weakest position to dictate terms.

Geelong? They had a player who had demanded to go to them and only them, and could also get there via free agency without Geelong giving up anything more than a salary. It's hard to imagine a stronger position.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

Geelong? They had a player who had demanded to go to them and only them, and could also get there via free agency without Geelong giving up anything more than a salary. It's hard to imagine a stronger position.

I thought that because we matched the contract it was either a trade had to be made or Dangerfield would go to the draft. The ball was in Geelong’s court to somehow cough up another 1st rounder or miss out on grabbing a top 5 player in the comp with most of his career still ahead of him.

 

[radiojake]

Danger was never gonna get to Geelong via Free Agency because Adelaide were always going to be able to match whatever Geelong offered him

 

[GROTTO]

Danger was never gonna get to Geelong via Free Agency because Adelaide were always going to be able to match whatever Geelong offered him

Exactly and Danger even threatened to sit out a year too.

Adelaide were in a position of strength in dealing with Geelong.

GreyCrow

 

[Jarman3]

I thought that because we matched the contract it was either a trade had to be made or Dangerfield would go to the draft. The ball was in Geelong’s court to somehow cough up another 1st rounder or miss out on grabbing a top 5 player in the comp with most of his career still ahead of him.

My recollection (and it's been a while so it may be wrong) is that there was never a formal free agent offer made and therefore we never actually matched? Geelong were only offering Dangerfield a modest contract (relative to what he could have got if he went for pure highest-bidder approach) that we could match and they knew we COULD match, so it went straight to trade negotiations without an FA offer being made or matched. So in the event that a trade couldn't be negotiated on terms they were willing to accept, they still had the option up their sleeve of making him a huge FA offer that we presumably couldn't match in which case we'd have just got the FA compensation pick.

This article seems to more or less line up with this, assuming it's accurate: Adelaide and Geelong closing in on Patrick Dangerfield deal

The proposed deal, which is close to completion but not finalised, will break new ground because Dangerfield will not exercise his rights and nominate terms as a restricted free agent - averting the situation where the Crows match the deal and then force a trade.

Adelaide have effectively short-circuited this situation by informing Geelong - and Dangerfield - that it would have matched Dangerfield's contract offer of an estimated $5 million over six years.

 

[LoBu]

I did have someone with apparent Weagles Board connections let me know Freo and Weagles had Curtin rated top 3. I emailed old mates Reidy and Silvers again (yes apologies for those who get annoyed by me doing this ) and passed this info on amongst other things. They knew of the same info recd in one of the return emails from both Gents

we will need to get ready for both WA clubs to try and raid Curtin - I imagine after the first contract even before he gets too entrenched here. Luckily for us we have a very young and exciting contending group with so many blockbuster games coming up. Great time to join our young talented group.

that said, wondering what flexibility we have to even start with getting a small extension (eg even if just one year initially… clearly the longer the better assuming all works out as planned). Can we say move his third year of current rookie contract up to say 500k assuming he signs for a 1-2 year extension at similar or higher amounts?). Good investment if so…show the boy the money

If Curtin is worth WC F1st this year, he could be worth 2 x firsts next year. If West Coast offer that next year (24 + 25) we'd have to consider, depending on how Curtin had settled in.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Brett Cummings]

Exactly and Danger even threatened to sit out a year too.

Adelaide were in a position of strength in dealing with Geelong.

GreyCrow

I'm not saying all vics are mentally weak but that seems like the state where the most home sick cry babies come from lol.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

My recollection (and it's been a while so it may be wrong) is that there was never a formal free agent offer made and therefore we never actually matched? Geelong were only offering Dangerfield a modest contract (relative to what he could have got if he went for pure highest-bidder approach) that we could match and they knew we COULD match, so it went straight to trade negotiations without an FA offer being made or matched. So in the event that a trade couldn't be negotiated on terms they were willing to accept, they still had the option up their sleeve of making him a huge FA offer that we presumably couldn't match in which case we'd have just got the FA compensation pick.

This article seems to more or less line up with this, assuming it's accurate: Adelaide and Geelong closing in on Patrick Dangerfield deal

My memory of the event is also hazy, you may be right but I can’t imagine any scenario where we wouldn’t have matched Geelong’s offer. They already had a quality list and were therefore unlikely to be in a better salary cap position than us and the absolute best FA compensation we could hav received was an insulting pick 14.

 

[Jarman3]

My memory of the event is also hazy, you may be right but I can’t imagine any scenario where we wouldn’t have matched Geelong’s offer. They already had a quality list and were therefore unlikely to be in a better salary cap position than us and the absolute best FA compensation we could hav received was an insulting pick 14.

I don't know about that... We were playing finals building towards a GF 2 years later. They'd just dropped out of the 8 and a lot of their premiership players from 07-09-11 were retired or near the end. They would have had a lot of cap space to work with if they were determined to.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

If Curtin is worth WC F1st this year, he could be worth 2 x firsts next year. If West Coast offer that next year (24 + 25) we'd have to consider, depending on how Curtin had settled in.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

You don't trade out top quality talent unless they want out.

 

[Crow till I die]

You don't trade out top quality talent unless they want out.

If the lad comes in and makes a really good impression next year, I'd be hoping we dangle a very big long contract in front of him ala Rachelle & Soligo...and bump the figure up a bit if needed. Better to splash the cash on retaining a guy that might be an absolute young A grader thats already here than try to lure one out from another club.

 

[PeterSalt]

If the lad comes in and makes a really good impression next year, I'd be hoping we dangle a very big long contract in front of him ala Rachelle & Soligo...and bump the figure up a bit if needed. Better to splash the cash on retaining a guy that might be an absolute young A grader thats already here than try to lure one out from another club.

Yep .. I was reading that now with the 3 year contracts you can't extend until round 6 of their first season (or read the article wrong)

I knew that the AFL was bringing in this change, but doesn't seem like a major hurdle