Universal Love David Teague

Uuuh but you contradict yourself.

You do want them named. Or you don't. Which one.

And FYI if the absolute boss of the company you work for comes to you for a chat and your manager has been underperforming and your response is the culture isn't perfect and the game plan (action plan, whatever) is too complex that's not a back stab. That's fulfilling your role in the company. That company now has direct feedback about a manager they can now use to help them improve. It's how good feedback cycles work. Leppitsch is an idiot in the media who hyped something up for clicks and you've bought it all.

Snitching players *biggest eye role of all time.*
Had the MD of the company call me and the other developers into his office while the IT manager wasn’t there and wanted our opinions on him. We gave our honest opinions… the guy was useless and had bullshitted his way into the job. It took him over 3 months to setup an exchange email server for a company of 15 people. If you know what you’re doing, instead of surfing the web looking at singles sites and chatting up women on company time (I had to audit his company laptop because I was the office “hacker”), it should take a day to setup and tie into an ADS machine, a couple of days to implement all of the security patches, setup anti-spam rules, and close all non-essential ports, and then a couple of days to set up the individual rules on the ADS machine.

The MD had an idea already that the guy was blagging it, but wanted confirmation from the “experts”.

The guy tried to impress us developers one day by bragging about his degree in genetics from a US University. It was so hard not to laugh in his face.

Neways, tl;dr… he got fired for incompetence And misrepresenting himself.
 

TwiggleyFanClub

Premiership Player
Oct 10, 2008
3,125
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As you say, running faster and harder but that could be running forward or spreading from a contest we then lose.

So agree to the correction in terms of effort, effort being applied but perhaps one way only (so selectively) and/or stupidly (running for the sake of it) but there is no opinion or selective imagery when you watch vision all day long of players not running defensively, that's just truth.

While I believe the system needs work I don't believe the application of effort is purely system based.

It's very much a game plan that lends itself to downhill skiing.
 

The Flying Doormat

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 5, 2008
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What would be the point of the review if very little changes, clearly a pointless exercise as some have stated in our last 22 games we are clearly one of the worst performing teams on the back of large contracts for players from other clubs & many players on our list that are in a phrase were they should have reached a peak level of performance in their career journey.

Almost every respected figure Brown/Riewoldt/Lewis/Healy have flagged major issues that require significant change.
As in politics, never hold a review you don't already know the outcome of.
 

The Blue Baggers

Premiership Player
Apr 7, 2013
3,919
3,280
AFL Club
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Some recent media reports suggest Teague will still be coach in 2022, but the club is trying to bring in stronger assistants like Chris Newman, who is doing a great job at Hawthorn/Box Hill Hawks.
Hopefully that is what will happen..

re: Newman

FFS is there any chance we can bring in premiership experience!!
 

Iamcarlton

Premiership Player
Oct 11, 2015
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Up North
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I can’t understand this desperation to retain a coach that’s shown very little game day footy IQ & oomph.
Progress is stagnant and no evolution for some time, players seem almost disinterested too.
I can’t see the logic in upgrading assistants only, is it to give a semblance of competency to our coaching department? appease disgruntled supporters ?
simply, reckon our head coach just ain’t got it.He may improve over time, but can the club navigate another 3 to 4 lackluster seasons?
Review is urgent hopefully and will be diligent , without errors or omissions.
If Teague isnt prepared to find a better balance with the way we play .
Or atleast indicate internally that we do need to tweak the gameplan imo new assistants will make very little difference as they will be beholden to Teagues way.

Imo he should be seen as auditioning for the job (caretaker coach) same as 2019 for the rest of this year .
And If we cant be better defensively for the rest of this year and hopefully the players arent checking out so we can get a gauge on this.
Then i dont see the point in continuing with him .
The one thing i do find frustrating is that Brett Ratten was sacked at our club in very similar circumstances .
A coach needing to find/instill a stronger defensive side to our game .
Have we not learnt .
 
It's very much a game plan that lends itself to downhill skiing.

In gross terms - the effort factor as far as both distance covered and speed of coverage is no doubt there for the team as a whole.
In skill execution | pressure acts | tackle counts - the team is deficient in both attack and defense.

If you are continually chasing tail because you deliver uncontested possession ease to opposition - you are always going to look poor.

A decent coaching regime would not only know what is going on and why - but also have incorporated individual and team fixes to remedy the issues.

Sadly - even based on Teague's own benchmark for success interms of his own game style preference- attack - Carlton is trated at #10 in the competition for scoring - when matched to being rated at #17 for scores against - it is not a recipe for success against any opposiiton really.
 

CordonFnBleu

Fowl connoisseur
Jun 8, 2021
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38
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Carlton
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Interesting listening to Andrew Walker talk to Howard Kotton and Tony De Bolfo on their new podcast "With all the Champions".

They asked him about Teague and he said he just wished the club would back him in.

He said its the same thing over and over again at Carlton over the last 20 years. We have a run of bad games and then media put pressure on, then the supporters jump in as well and then the club buckle under the pressure.

The club buckles under pressure because without supporters there is no club.
...and these particular long-suffering supporters have had a gutful of the continual ineptitude and lack of success over the last 2.5 decades. Is that unfair?
Maybe the CFC needs to update their old rusty mechanical roundabout into a new shiny electronic one.
 

TwiggleyFanClub

Premiership Player
Oct 10, 2008
3,125
6,225
Melbourne
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Carlton
In gross terms - the effort factor as far as both distance covered and speed of coverage is no doubt there for the team as a whole.
In skill execution | pressure acts | tackle counts - the team is deficient in both attack and defense.

If you are continually chasing tail because you deliver uncontested possession ease to opposition - you are always going to look poor.

A decent coaching regime would not only know what is going on and why - but also have incorporated individual and team fixes to remedy the issues.

Sadly - even based on Teague's own benchmark for success interms of his own game style preference- attack - Carlton is trated at #10 in the competition for scoring - when matched to being rated at #17 for scores against - it is not a recipe for success against any opposiiton really.

Agree with all of that, but my point is that if the game plan says win the contest and then spread forward fast to catch them on the hop, less committed players can just run forward for the next kick instead of helping win the current contest, and still claim to be playing their role.
Then when the contest goes the other way and they're off up the highway somewhere, it's easy to then point to someone else to do get the ball back.
 

blueboy25

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 14, 2006
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The club buckles under pressure because without supporters there is no club.
...and these particular long-suffering supporters have had a gutful of the continual ineptitude and lack of success over the last 2.5 decades. Is that unfair?
Maybe the CFC needs to update their old rusty mechanical roundabout into a new shiny electronic one.
Or maybe the club grows up and realises they need to stop making the same mistakes they have over the last 2.5 decades and actually back the decisions they have made without buckling to pressure every time.
 
Agree with all of that, but my point is that if the game plan says win the contest and then spread forward fast to catch them on the hop, less committed players can just run forward for the next kick instead of helping win the current contest, and still claim to be playing their role.
Then when the contest goes the other way and they're off up the highway somewhere, it's easy to then point to someone else to do get the ball back.

Sure- that is an execution issue - again pretty obvious to coaches I would imagine.
Dont blame the players - might make coaches happy to find a point the finger - but it it is a waste of time and will lead to nowhere.
We are getting towelled up the same way(s) week in week out.
It is a coaching issue.
 

Triniboy

All Australian
Sep 26, 2011
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Coaches are either instructing what is occurring or allowing


Stange post, courage as a player and ruthless as a coach have nothing to do with each other. Not sure you are attacking the poster as a keyboard hero, the observation that Teague is not demanding enough is widespread, I suspect you are potentially in denial, and the typical response to that is to resort to name-calling, rather than engaging in debate.

Disappointing post.
"Coaches are either instructing what is occurring or allowing"
Exactly...its all about communication and from where I sit there doesn't look as though there is clarity. clear whatever is being said isn't
Coaches are either instructing what is occurring or allowing


Stange post, courage as a player and ruthless as a coach have nothing to do with each other. Not sure you are attacking the poster as a keyboard hero, the observation that Teague is not demanding enough is widespread, I suspect you are potentially in denial, and the typical response to that is to resort to name-calling, rather than engaging in debate.

Disappointing post.
"Coaches are either instructing what is occurring or allowing"
Exactly...
These are Teague's words after a few losses "Players being able to execute fundamentals"...well he and he only needs to take ownership of what isn't up to scratch...its all about communication and from where I sit there doesn't look as though there is clarity....
 
As in politics, never hold a review you don't already know the outcome of.
Very true.

Do we know what the terms of reference are for this enquiry ? I recall Sir Humphrey in Yes Minister mentioning that the terms of reference were the most important thing in any inquiry, terms of reference were like railway tracks and once the track is laid the train can only go in one direction ;)
 

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
21,550
48,499
AFL Club
Carlton
Very true.

Do we know what the terms of reference are for this enquiry ? I recall Sir Humphrey in Yes Minister mentioning that the terms of reference were the most important thing in any inquiry, terms of reference were like railway tracks and once the track is laid the train can only go in one direction ;)

It's the whole football department
 

sparkyblue

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2010
663
2,824
AFL Club
Carlton
Very true.

Do we know what the terms of reference are for this enquiry ? I recall Sir Humphrey in Yes Minister mentioning that the terms of reference were the most important thing in any inquiry, terms of reference were like railway tracks and once the track is laid the train can only go in one direction ;)

I've been asking, and suggested to the club that members should be provided with the TORs in the interest of transparency. Probably a snowflake's chance in hell that we'll get them.

Extra points for a Yes Minister reference too. :D
 
I've been asking, and suggested to the club that members should be provided with the TORs in the interest of transparency. Probably a snowflake's chance in hell that we'll get them.

Extra points for a Yes Minister reference too. :D
I think it is unlikely we will see the TOR or the recommendations not accepted by the Board. The recommendations the Board agree to will probably be made public as it will be the rationale for any changes.
 

sparkyblue

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2010
663
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AFL Club
Carlton
I think it is unlikely we will see the TOR or the recommendations not accepted by the Board. The recommendations the Board agree to will probably be made public as it will be the rationale for any changes.

Totally. That is my expectation too.

It's why when the club rang me that I preemptively gave them the feedback that it would be refreshing for them to transparent for a change and considering they're all about marketing these days, there's an opportunity there too.
 

Blue since 72

Premiership Player
Feb 13, 2009
4,747
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Sure- that is an execution issue - again pretty obvious to coaches I would imagine.
Dont blame the players - might make coaches happy to find a point the finger - but it it is a waste of time and will lead to nowhere.
We are getting towelled up the same way(s) week in week out.
It is a coaching issue.

Agree there is absolutely a coaching issue but I still believe the players are not all in.

The example shown on fox where Jones comes in to halve the contest at our half forward line is just one instance of many:

He hits the ball forward where Whitfield just happens to be Johnny on the spot, who collects and starts to move forward then handballs and accelerates toward his forward line. At the time he picks up Jones's knock forward Dow is standing right next to him and even tries to lay some contact but misses. As the vision moves further up the ground Dow is travelling at something a fair bit below top speed along with 4 or 5 other Carlton players as Whitfield receives again then delivers inside 50 for a resultant goal.

It says to me that the expectation of Dow is that someone further up the ground will deal with Whitfield so I'll push up behind for when we get the turnover which never comes.

I refer again to what Tom MacDonald said the other week; he came to the realisation that there is no other someone up the ground and that he will have to do it. I just don't see that behaviour from a lot of our players in terms of defensive running, it seems to be "Jab will get him BS72 says to himself while Jab is saying to himself, BS72 will get him".

That behaviour has nothing to do with system and at this level it shouldn't have to be coached into a 4 year player.
 

mjonc43

Premium Platinum
Aug 28, 2016
484
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I’ve worked out our problem. The bonding sessions over summer involved listening to the Twelfth Man.

Turns out the Football Department have taken literally the Richie quote “we work as a team and do it my way”.

As a result you can clearly see why the lines don’t gel on match day.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Agree there is absolutely a coaching issue but I still believe the players are not all in.

The example shown on fox where Jones comes in to halve the contest at our half forward line is just one instance of many:

He hits the ball forward where Whitfield just happens to be Johnny on the spot, who collects and starts to move forward then handballs and accelerates toward his forward line. At the time he picks up Jones's knock forward Dow is standing right next to him and even tries to lay some contact but misses. As the vision moves further up the ground Dow is travelling at something a fair bit below top speed along with 4 or 5 other Carlton players as Whitfield receives again then delivers inside 50 for a resultant goal.

It says to me that the expectation of Dow is that someone further up the ground will deal with Whitfield so I'll push up behind for when we get the turnover which never comes.

I refer again to what Tom MacDonald said the other week; he came to the realisation that there is no other someone up the ground and that he will have to do it. I just don't see that behaviour from a lot of our players in terms of defensive running, it seems to be "Jab will get him BS72 says to himself while Jab is saying to himself, BS72 will get him".

That behaviour has nothing to do with system and at this level it shouldn't have to be coached into a 4 year player.

I'm more of the view that whatthe players do and how they do it is part of what has been coached into them. The Dow example is repeated over and over again - by a lot of players- which is why I think it is coached.
 

Blue since 72

Premiership Player
Feb 13, 2009
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I'm more of the view that whatthe players do and how they do it is part of what has been coached into them. The Dow example is repeated over and over again - by a lot of players- which is why I think it is coached.

God I hope not.

What would be your insight as to why that would be the case because I don't get it? Are they prepared to concede in the hope they outgun going the other way because Teague should go now if that's the case.
 
God I hope not.

What would be your insight as to why that would be the case because I don't get it? Are they prepared to concede in the hope they outgun going the other way because Teague should go now if that's the case.

Passing on responsibility is pretty standard play in any zone based system where players are asked to 'be' in certain places and take responsibility for that space - passing on responsibility to team mates in other space according to game situation -you see this all the time in zone based systems of play for example in soccer where the midfielders typically hunt in groups of three with one dropping off and another coming in - depending on where the play is moving.

my view of what is going on is that the system Teague is trying to employ is missing the most important part of the system and that is defined 'groups' of players all hunting together in attack and defence according to where the contest is on the field at any point in time.

If you watch better drilled teams- you will see that typically 2-4 players are all running in unison and working as a sub team in any particular contested area - the defensive set up at the contest involves a combination of stopping players and players on the outside of any contest ready to either recieve in advantage if the ball is won or defend opposition outside recievers.

Carlton looks to me to have a 'sort of' zone system in place but lacks the player sub team connectedness to deliver effective attacking or defensive transitional (ie moving) play. This is why Carlton players are often 'looking' like they are running to the wrong space or running away from where they should be or could be - it is keystone cop type movement all too often and why the team plays like a bunch of diconnected individuals rather than playing to a discernable defensive or attacking system - Carlton players look confused as much as organised - everywhere.

Part of the problem is that there has been very little consistency in terms of where players are expected to play - we have players rotating through multiple positions in game and if you have too much of this - it makes the posiitonal and combinational play difficult to achieve.

eg our defensive transitional play with ball in hand compared to most teams is sub par both in general play and through kick ins - diablolically poor. Our defensive structure and execution in typical high ball entry situations plays into the hands of opposiiton as eg Jones in particular continues to punch the ball into the corridor - exactly where opposition players are runnng into instead of punching laterally - at least giving opposiiton less direct entry opportunity

In attack the major problem continues to be an over reliance on Harry's marking power and a belief that territorial gain via long bombs is a preferred method to create forward pressure opportunity - when in fact to well drilled defensive structures- all it does is provide either an intercept mark or ground ball turnover and rebound opportunity - witness the ease by which opposition exits forward fifty.

To me - Carlton has not progressed its system of play into a reliable and predictable set of strategies - all that has happenned is fitter more developed and more talented players are being asked to play school boy football - with a reliance on individual briliance to carry the day - which is why it is always hard work for the team - we are missing method.

When you have both skill/execution error as well as structural challenges with implementing and playing to a system - you have to look to the game plan and coaching of it in order to improve. My problem with this - is that we have been witnessing the same lack of progress and in fact I would argue deterioration for a long time now - which points to serious football department issues for want of a better expression.
 
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