Decriminalisation of drugs... your thoughts?

quotemokc

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Another big music event in Sydney resulting in 4 overdoses.

I would bet that at least 2000 of the 18000 crowd were on drugs too, at LEAST.

Pill testing won't stop people from overdosing.
 

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GreyWind

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Another big music event in Sydney resulting in 4 overdoses.

I would bet that at least 2000 of the 18000 crowd were on drugs too, at LEAST.

Pill testing won't stop people from overdosing.
Of course not. But it would help people from taking dodgy drugs.
 

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Gigantic

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Another big music event in Sydney resulting in 4 overdoses.

I would bet that at least 2000 of the 18000 crowd were on drugs too, at LEAST.

Pill testing won't stop people from overdosing.
2000 of 18000? I'd say close to 15000 of 18000.

There's too many factors involved like water intoxication, overheating, heart attacks etc to really say whether it's the quality of pills the leads to deaths. But I'd say pill testing and other harm minimisation initiatives would drastically lower the number of first aid visits and hospitalisations.
 

quotemokc

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2000 of 18000? I'd say close to 15000 of 18000.

There's too many factors involved like water intoxication, overheating, heart attacks etc to really say whether it's the quality of pills the leads to deaths. But I'd say pill testing and other harm minimisation initiatives would drastically lower the number of first aid visits and hospitalisations.
I was trying to be conservative with the numbers.

I am not saying that we shouldn't have pill testing, but lets not pretend that it is the solution.
 

SnakeMan86

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Another big music event in Sydney resulting in 4 overdoses.

I would bet that at least 2000 of the 18000 crowd were on drugs too, at LEAST.

Pill testing won't stop people from overdosing.
Re read my previous post. Pill testing is an absolute requirement. After that its on the individual
 

quotemokc

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Re read my previous post. Pill testing is an absolute requirement. After that its on the individual
I think legal pharmaceutical grade drugs would be much safer. (will never happen)

I agree with you that meth and heroin etc shouldn't be made legal.

I would be pretty pissed if I bought a $35 pill and tested it and it was a dud, can't exactly call the ACCC.

Would you be on board with MDMA, LSD and mushrooms etc being legal?
 

Gigantic

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The problem now is there's absolutely no controls in the black market that ensures you're getting what you think you're getting. Arguably, you bring in pill testing and you could improve drug quality in the market because manufacturers will be more accountable for the products they sell. Certainly the case you see in Europe.

It's no ACCC but it's going to work a lot better than what's happening now. If I bought a pill that I thought was MDMA only to find out it had only a bit of MDMA, with some bath salts, caffeine and DXM in the pill... you'd bet I'd never buy a pill from that person ever again.
 

Gigantic

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I think legal pharmaceutical grade drugs would be much safer. (will never happen)

I agree with you that meth and heroin etc shouldn't be made legal.

I would be pretty pissed if I bought a $35 pill and tested it and it was a dud, can't exactly call the ACCC.

Would you be on board with MDMA, LSD and mushrooms etc being legal?
I'm still not sure about making it completely legal. But I'd definitely like to see more research done with respect to MDMA, LSD, mushrooms. I also think they should be used for as prescription drugs to treat things like PTSD, if further research can show that they're helpful in psychotherapy treatment.
 

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I think legal pharmaceutical grade drugs would be much safer. (will never happen)

I agree with you that meth and heroin etc shouldn't be made legal.

I would be pretty pissed if I bought a $35 pill and tested it and it was a dud, can't exactly call the ACCC.

Would you be on board with MDMA, LSD and mushrooms etc being legal?
Yeah im just not sure, i definately agree with below, i think more research needs to be done.

I'm still not sure about making it completely legal. But I'd definitely like to see more research done with respect to MDMA, LSD, mushrooms.
Now dont get me wrong, im very much against illicit drugs, i've seen first hand the damage they can do, but it makes me angry when people argue against Pill testing, or when people argue against decriminalization, and think that it wont lead to safer drugs, because thats just factually incorrect.

I think the real problem is education. We were taught in schools about the harms or alcohol and cigarettes, but we are never taught about the addictive nature of illicit drugs, or what actually goes into the manufacturing of them, especially things like ecstasy and cocain in Australia, because the quality is just so bad (battery acid, urinal cakes, glass etc), and they can just be so harmful.
 

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I think legal pharmaceutical grade drugs would be much safer. (will never happen)

I agree with you that meth and heroin etc shouldn't be made legal.

I would be pretty pissed if I bought a $35 pill and tested it and it was a dud, can't exactly call the ACCC.

Would you be on board with MDMA, LSD and mushrooms etc being legal?
Yeah im just not sure, i definately agree with below, i think more research needs to be done.

I'm still not sure about making it completely legal. But I'd definitely like to see more research done with respect to MDMA, LSD, mushrooms.
Now dont get me wrong, im very much against illicit drugs, i've seen first hand the damage they can do, but it makes me angry when people argue against Pill testing, or when people argue against decriminalization, and think that it wont lead to safer drugs, because thats just factually incorrect.

I think the real problem is education. We were taught in schools about the harms or alcohol and cigarettes, but we are never taught about the addictive nature of illicit drugs, or what actually goes into the manufacturing of them, especially things like ecstasy and cocain in Australia, because the quality is just so bad (battery acid, urinal cakes, glass etc), and they can just be so harmful.
 

the_interloper

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F***ing madness. We can go a long way to stopping this but choose not to.
Truth. I also wonder what good sniffer dogs do. They only catch a few people who get drug diversion programs anyway, surely those resources would be better spent on surveillance to find the people dealing. If you've been to a festival it's not that hard to figure out who is dealing there, and don't see why you'd want to try and catch someone with two pills anyway.
 

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_Mike_

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Truth. I also wonder what good sniffer dogs do. They only catch a few people who get drug diversion programs anyway, surely those resources would be better spent on surveillance to find the people dealing. If you've been to a festival it's not that hard to figure out who is dealing there, and don't see why you'd want to try and catch someone with two pills anyway.
People take their drugs before they go.. by the time it’s worked through the bloodstream it’s too late. Nothing a drug dog is going to be able to do by that time. While it might stop the paddlers at the raves, the authorities are kidding the,selves if they think they can stop it completely.
 

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On the matter of decriminalisation, I don’t believe going carte Blanche by decriminalising all illegal drugs is the answer. Meth/heroin are terrible drugs concocted and mixed with anything they can be cut 8nto it to make more in quantity. The government can’t authorise the controlled production without widespread ramifications on a number of levels. As for whiz, eccies and trips, they can be equally as dangerous if made by those who don’t know what they’re doing. And that’s one of the biggest issues with those particular drugs, decriminalisation of them encourages every man and his dog with 1/2 and idea to make very dangerous mixes.
 

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we don't need drugs but we all are stumped by what we know and what we don't want to know...

its a damn disgrace that we can't have a regulated drug system where those who want to take stuff are counted into things and
so we know what we are dealing with.. i.e. making sure that it is one thing or another....

but if not then we all ought to stamp something on them so that if we take them then we know they are safe, and not some other
dumb shit...

we can't avoid that we all take them,, and we can't avoid that some will do stupid things...

test them,, sell them, organise a system of knowing where you get them,, or else who gets them...

just make it somewhat legal so we can avoid this shit of making up stories about it and then worrying afterwards...
 

the_interloper

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People take their drugs before they go.. by the time it’s worked through the bloodstream it’s too late. Nothing a drug dog is going to be able to do by that time. While it might stop the paddlers at the raves, the authorities are kidding the,selves if they think they can stop it completely.
You might hook in before you go but you need to take more for the rest of the day, festivals are long days and one pill at the start won’t last you.
 

Snake_Baker

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Another big music event in Sydney resulting in 4 overdoses.

I would bet that at least 2000 of the 18000 crowd were on drugs too, at LEAST.

Pill testing won't stop people from overdosing.
People don't set out to deliberately overdose and pill testing would massively decrease the levels of overdose.

Legalisation would effectively end the problem.
 

nicky

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This is simply not true.

1. You cant put all drugs into the same category. You cant lump Weed in the same category as ice or meth. I for one have personally seen the benefits of a cancer patient smoking weed to relieve nausea and improve appetite whist going through chemo.

2. Take ecstasy for example. 20 years ago a standard pill used to contain around 20% MDMA, now you are looking at around 2-3%, why? Mainly because of our strict border force, and how hard it is to import, but also due to the dwindling Sassafras tree in South East Asia.
So what then? Manufacturers are finding alternatives to mimic the same reaction as a standard pill, chemicals such as battery acid, urinal cakes, glass etc. People these days aren't simply overdosing, they are having bad reactions to such chemicals in there bloodstream and stomach.
This is why testing kits are becoming an almost necessity. Baby powder in cocain as a filler etc.
It is also the reason Flacca, bath salts, take any synthetic drug are becoming more prevalent.

Should Ice be made legal. HELL NO, due to not only the effects of the user, but also the massive risk of harm to others.
Heroin? I personally say NO.
Weed? Yes, its proven medically to be a positive and the simple fact that it cant be taxed is the largest reason for it not being made legal.
Would decriminalization lead to safer drugs? Theres absolute evidence to suggest it would.
Ice and heroin shouldn't be excluded. It is elitist to assume you have a right to pick and choose which drugs are legal.

It is disgusting to think the funky junkies have a right to their coke and md whilst the housos continue to suffer penalties for their drug of choice.

I dont care what people think of these drugs and their "perceived associated" problems.
 

nicky

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People take their drugs before they go.. by the time it’s worked through the bloodstream it’s too late. Nothing a drug dog is going to be able to do by that time. While it might stop the paddlers at the raves, the authorities are kidding the,selves if they think they can stop it completely.

Ffs these drug raids target a specific demographic whilst the majority of featival attendees sneak large quantities of drugs into these festivals. Where there is a will there is a way. Festivals get unfairly targetted and the cops need to catch a few unfortunate people to appease the mrs mangle community.

You'd find alot more coke and punch ups at the spring racing carnival than you would at a decent festival.

The cops love going to a festival, all the smililing faces. the hardest part of their job might be getting a few trippers from climbing a tree. I have heard it can be like herding cats.

Meth has become a bit more of a problem since more mainstreamers go to festivals too but these problems are also exaggerated.

You find alot more aggression and drugs in king st that you would at a festival.


Mmmm watching horse torture whilst coked to the eyeballs or listening to the best music around in the bush amongst the smiling faces of the lsd glow?

I know which one i would prefer and subsequently leave them the fk alone.
 
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Gigantic

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One part of Australia's economy is booming: Illegal drugs
As the Reserve Bank frets about Australia's slowing levels of consumption, it's found one area that appears to be holding up well.

Australians spent $13.5 billion on illicit drugs in the year through to August 2017, the central bank estimates, as methamphetamine and cannabis accounted for more than 70 per cent of purchases.

That's among findings of a research paper released on Tuesday exploring usage of the nation's bank notes, of which it reckons almost 2 per cent is for illegal drug deals.


Researchers calculated that the stock of actual notes used in drug purchases - after taking into account how often the same note tends to change hands - was a little over $1 billion. John Woudstra

"Excluding cannabis, methamphetamine - also known as meth or ice - is the most used illicit drug in Australia by weight, followed by cocaine, MDMA - also known as ecstasy - and then heroin," the report said, citing analysis of wastewater that's used to measure the population's drug consumption.

Researchers calculated that the stock of actual notes used in drug purchases - after taking into account how often the same note tends to change hands - was a little over $1 billion.

To estimate the value of cash used to pay for illegal drugs, the RBA paper assumed:

  • All drug purchases were made with bank notes, as research shows most users still buy face-to-face;
  • To account for drugs typically being cut with other substances, the RBA paper divided volumes by average purity levels; and
  • The researchers incorporated estimates of the drugs' street value.
As for the denominations of notes used in such activities, law enforcement agencies suggest the $50 bill tends to be the favoured form of payment.

Bloomberg

https://www.afr.com/news/economy/on...c-XPMwMtL1GicSGNpUbDsftCDjoQhkplozqLEEb4gzD20
 

Snake_Baker

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Australians spent $13.5 billion on illicit drugs in the year through to August 2017, the central bank estimates, as methamphetamine and cannabis accounted for more than 70 per cent of purchases.
Keep going. How much did the state spend on the anti drugs campaign?

You can double that figure.
 

Gigantic

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Keep going. How much did the state spend on the anti drugs campaign?

You can double that figure.
And then consider the cost of putting drug offenders through the criminal justice system

And then the failure of the criminal justice system to rehabilitation and the cost of recidivism
 

The Passenger

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One part of Australia's economy is booming: Illegal drugs
As the Reserve Bank frets about Australia's slowing levels of consumption, it's found one area that appears to be holding up well.

Australians spent $13.5 billion on illicit drugs in the year through to August 2017, the central bank estimates, as methamphetamine and cannabis accounted for more than 70 per cent of purchases.
Disappointing. Thought we could do better than that....
 

Deliverance

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I have looked at the results of Portugal, which is your go to example. The results overwhelmingly show that they have reduced harm and overdoses and HIV infection and reduced drug offences, etcetera
These are the things you keep saying wont be reduced or will increase, yet the very opposite has happened.
Those stats are only one part of my argument for legalisation, but they go against your very argument and you still use Portugal as a reason not to decriminalise.

In fact, legalisation in Portugal has reduced drug usage


Here's what the data says about Portugal's decriminalization:
  • Drug-related HIV infections have plummeted by over 90% since 2001, according to the drug-policy think tank Transform.

  • Drug-related deaths in Portugal are the second-lowest in the European Union. Just three in a million people die of overdoses there, compared with the EU average of 17.3 per million.

  • The number of adults who have done drugs in the past year has decreased steadily since 2001.

  • Compared to rest of the EU, young people in Portugal now use the least amount of "legal high" drugs like synthetic marijuana, which are especially dangerous.

  • The percentage of drug-related offenders in Portuguese prisons fell from 44% in 1999 to 21% in 2012.

  • The number of people in drug-treatment increased 60% from 1998 to 2011 from 23,600 to 38,000.
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/countries/drug-reports/2018/portugal/key-statistics_en

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/countries/drug-reports/2018/portugal_en

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...licy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ortugal/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2cb1c8ddde49

https://www.econlib.org/archives/2017/12/is_portugals_dr.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-study-cocaine-marijuana-heroin-a7996896.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/wha...al-decriminalized-all-drugs-2016-3/?r=AU&IR=T

https://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight

https://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/success-portugal’s-decriminalisation-policy-–-seven-charts
To be fair, Portugal was a pretty extreme case that needed an extreme reaction. I don't think you can compare post Salazar Portugal with current day Australia.
 

SnakeMan86

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Ice and heroin shouldn't be excluded. It is elitist to assume you have a right to pick and choose which drugs are legal.

It is disgusting to think the funky junkies have a right to their coke and md whilst the housos continue to suffer penalties for their drug of choice.

I dont care what people think of these drugs and their "perceived associated" problems.
It's not Elitist at all. It's based on the medical and psychological trauma it puts on the human body.
It's manufactured to be so addictive to a point where for most people its almost impossible to kick, similar with Heroin.

Have you ever been around an ice addict who is scraping there own skin off? OR one who is convinced there reflection is trying to murder them so they start stabbing it with a knife? Not pretty mate.

Your opinion is Moot when you say ICE only has perceived associated problems
 
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