Decriminalisation of drugs... your thoughts?

Snake_Baker

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Pfffft, as if!
It's not Elitist at all. It's based on the medical and psychological trauma it puts on the human body.
It's manufactured to be so addictive to a point where for most people its almost impossible to kick, similar with Heroin.

Have you ever been around an ice addict who is scraping there own skin off? OR one who is convinced there reflection is trying to murder them so they start stabbing it with a knife? Not pretty mate.

Your opinion is Moot when you say ICE only has perceived associated problems
You don't have a clue what you're talking about.
 

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Snake_Baker

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Pfffft, as if!
:rolleyes: I've proven i'm clearly well educated on the subject
Really?

Here is a structure of methamphetamine:

upload_2018-12-14_7-10-56.png


Could you point out the part that has been "manufactured to be so addictive to a point where for most people its almost impossible to kick, similar with Heroin"?

Any possible accompanying dopamine/opoid receptor information would also be helpful.
 

Mofra

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It's not Elitist at all. It's based on the medical and psychological trauma it puts on the human body.
It's manufactured to be so addictive to a point where for most people its almost impossible to kick, similar with Heroin.
Ice addition works in a completely different manner to addiction to opioids.
 

SnakeMan86

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Really?

Here is a structure of methamphetamine:

View attachment 595241

Could you point out the part that has been "manufactured to be so addictive to a point where for most people its almost impossible to kick, similar with Heroin"?

Any possible accompanying dopamine/opoid receptor information would also be helpful.
Theres a 26% chance of developing an Ice addiction.

From the moment its smoked it boosts hormones (seratonin) which plays the role in feeling euphoric, happy etc.
With effects only lasting around 10-12 hours the comedown in large cases can be quite extreme which leads to wanting to feel that euphoria all the time, hence the addiction.
The more ICE is taken, the less the brain produces Seratonin naturally, which makes the comedowns worse and the dependency increase.

Most ICE users talk about the first hit being the most euphoric feeling they have felt of any drug, so when they can never quite hit that high again, leads to constantly chasing that feeling, dependence, addiction, overdosing (which leads to the psychosis effects)

Adding to the fact that its so ridiculously expensive in Australia, it's often given out first for free or as a "Trial" Knowing the likelihood of addiction and dependence is so high
 

Snake_Baker

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Pfffft, as if!
Theres a 26% chance of developing an Ice addiction.
Complete and utter bullshit.

From the moment its smoked it boosts hormones (seratonin) which plays the role in feeling euphoric, happy etc.
With effects only lasting around 10-12 hours the comedown in large cases can be quite extreme which leads to wanting to feel that euphoria all the time, hence the addiction.
The more ICE is taken, the less the brain produces Seratonin naturally, which makes the comedowns worse and the dependency increase.

Most ICE users talk about the first hit being the most euphoric feeling they have felt of any drug, so when they can never quite hit that high again, leads to constantly chasing that feeling, dependence, addiction, overdosing (which leads to the psychosis effects)

Adding to the fact that its so ridiculoReplyusly expensive in Australia, it's often given out first for free or as a "Trial" Knowing the likelihood of addiction and dependence is so high
It predominately affects the neurotransmitter Dopamine, and Serotonin isn't a hormone.

From one snake to another, get yourself better educated mate.
 

Monkey King

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Complete and utter bullshit.



It predominately affects the neurotransmitter Dopamine, and Serotonin isn't a hormone.

From one snake to another, get yourself better educated mate.
Actually serotonin is a chemical messenger. Whether it acts as a hormone or a neurotransmitter is determined by where it is produced, i.e. in a neuron or endocrine cell. Serotonin is produced in both.

In the case of amphetamine use though, it’s the serotonin neurotransmitter that’s effected, as with dopamine and some other neurotransmitters also.
 

William Wonka

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Firstly, of course all drugs should be decriminalized.

Heroin is essentially given to junkies now anyway- the difference between H and Methadone is negligible, except Methadone is much much harder to kick than smack- weeks of withdrawal rather than days.
Might as well just give them a daily dose or two of gear and watch them line up at 8am and 6pm on the dot to get it.

Ice is a mental addiction rather than a physical one, made worse by the extreme sleep deprivation that goes hand in hand with it.
I defy anyone to try making rational decisions after 6 days without sleep.
There would probably be a lot less shardheads if they scored from a doctor who could give them benzos, melatonin and i.v sedation rather than a bikie.
 

Snake_Baker

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Pfffft, as if!
Actually serotonin is a chemical messenger. Whether it acts as a hormone or a neurotransmitter is determined by where it is produced, i.e. in a neuron or endocrine cell. Serotonin is produced in both.

In the case of amphetamine use though, it’s the serotonin neurotransmitter that’s effected, as with dopamine and some other neurotransmitters also.
Yeah, I get how it works.
 

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Snake_Baker

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Pfffft, as if!
Genetic Predisposition vs Individual-Specific Processes in the Association Between Psychotic-like Experiences and Cannabis Use

Nicole R. Karcher, PhD1; Deanna M. Barch, PhD1,2; Catherine H. Demers, MA2; et al David A. A. Baranger, PhD2; Andrew C. Heath, PhD1; Michael T. Lynskey, PhD3; Arpana Agrawal, PhD1


JAMA Psychiatry. Published online October 17, 2018. doi:10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2018.2546

Question To what extent is the association between cannabis use and psychotic-like experiences attributable to predispositional (ie, shared genetic) or to individual-specific factors?

Findings This cross-sectional study of twin and nontwin sibling pairs analyzed a combined sample comprising 4674 individuals and found significant evidence for shared genetic factors between cannabis involvement and psychotic-like experiences. After accounting for genetic overlap, frequent users of cannabis were more likely to report psychotic-like experiences than relatives who used cannabis less frequently.

Meaning Although shared genetic influences are important, person-specific factors also appear to influence the association between cannabis involvement and psychotic-like experiences.

Abstract

Importance Previous research indicates that cannabis use is associated with psychotic-like experiences (PLEs). However, it is unclear whether this association results from predispositional (ie, shared genetic) factors or individual-specific factors (eg, causal processes, such as cannabis use leading to PLEs).

Objectives To estimate genetic and environmental correlations between cannabis use and PLEs, and to examine PLEs in twin and nontwin sibling pairs discordant for exposure to cannabis use to disentangle predispositional from individual-specific effects.

Design, Setting, and Participants In this cross-sectional analysis, diagnostic interviews and self-reported data were collected from 2 separate population-based samples of twin and nontwin sibling pairs. Data from the Human Connectome Project were collected between August 10, 2012, and September 29, 2015, and data from the Australian Twin Registry Cohort 3 (ATR3) were collected between August 1, 2005, and August 31, 2010. Data were analyzed between August 17, 2017, and July 6, 2018. The study included data from 1188 Human Connectome Project participants and 3486 ATR3 participants, totaling 4674 participants.

Main Outcomes and Measures Three cannabis-involvement variables were examined: frequent use (ie, ≥100 times), a DSM-IV lifetime cannabis use disorder diagnosis, and current cannabis use. Genetic and environmental correlations between cannabis involvement and PLEs were estimated. Generalized linear mixed models examined PLE differences in twin and nontwin sibling pairs discordant for cannabis use.

Results Among the 4674 participants, the mean (SD) age was 30.5 (3.2) years, and 2923 (62.5%) were female. Data on race/ethnicity were not included as a covariate owing to lack of variability within the ATR3 sample; among the 1188 participants in the Human Connectome Project, 875 (73.7%) were white. Psychotic-like experiences were associated with frequent cannabis use (β = 0.11; 95% CI, 0.08-0.14), cannabis use disorder (β = 0.13; 95% CI, 0.09-0.16), and current cannabis use (β = 0.07; 95% CI, 0.04-0.10) even after adjustment for covariates. Correlated genetic factors explained between 69.2% and 84.1% of this observed association. Within discordant pairs of twins/siblings (Npairs, 308-324), Psychotic-like experiences were more common in cannabis-exposed individuals compared with their relative who used cannabis to a lesser degree (β ≥ .23, P < .05; eg, frequent and infrequent cannabis-using relatives significantly differed, z = −5.41; P < .001).

Conclusions and Relevance Despite the strong contribution of shared genetic factors, frequent and problem cannabis use also appears to be associated with PLEs via person-specific pathways. This study’s findings suggest that policy discussions surrounding legalization should consider the influence of escalations in cannabis use on traitlike indices of vulnerability, such as PLEs, which could contribute to pervasive psychological and interpersonal burden.

https://www.psypost.org/2018/11/the...s-largely-the-result-of-genetic-factors-52617
 

skilts

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There existed, for a time during 1968, a program in Melbourne, whereby LSD was used as an experimental treatment for those suffering from profound depression. The chap I knew who was enrolled in the program, overseen by a psychiatrist. benefited considerably from its use. He didn't become perfect, but was vastly improved. Prior to its administration, he was verging on catatonia and was unable to relate to the world, other than through a very few people who'd known him quite a while. The use of LSD made him far less afraid of people he didn't know. It made him much more sensibly involved with society generally.

It must be said that there was one conspicuous side-effect of his use of the drug. He painted everything in his flat black. Not just the walls, but the floors and even the ashtrays and crockery. His curtains could be no other colour than black. Somewhat of a peculiar reaction, but hey, he was a lot better off than he had been. That everything around him was black seemed to soothe him, despite some seeing that such a lifestyle in itself might be depressing.

He was one of those who had his regular doses of LSD curtailed because of the antics of Leary. I lost contact with him shortly after this, so don't know how he got on later in life..
 
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There existed, for a time during 1968, a program in Melbourne, whereby LSD was used as an experimental treatment for those suffering from profound depression. The chap I knew who was enrolled in the program, overseen by a psychiatrist. benefited considerably from its use. He didn't become perfect, but was vastly improved. Prior to its administration, he was verging on catatonia and was unable to relate to the world, other than through a very few people who'd known him quite a while. The use of LSD made him far less afraid of people he didn't know. It made him much more sensibly involved with society generally.

It must be said that there was one conspicuous side-effect of his use of the drug. He painted everything in his flat black. Not just the walls, but the floors and even the ashtrays and crockery. His curtains could be no other colour than black. Somewhat of a peculiar reaction, but hey, he was a lot better off than he had been. That everything around him was black seemed to soothe him, despite some seeing that such a lifestyle in itself might be depressing.

He was one of those who had his regular doses of LSD curtailed because of the antics of Leary. I lost contact with him shortly after this, so don't know how he got on later in life..
I know a guy from that time who also was experimented on with lsd. He had severe depression from a screwed up religious cult where every one screwed everyone heterosexually. He become a dj and then fell off his bike and they used pych drugz to stop the swelling on the brain. That sent him loopy. Still loopy today but spiritualy aware.

They didn't stop lsd because of leary. They stopped it because they couldnt control the minds of users. It was what fueled the peace movement. What enabled them to see past cultural conditioning.

Pot is similar.
 
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Leeda

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some people gravitate to drugs and take them for a year or less, but don't get addicted.. while some go all hog and smash furniture and homes and so on
at least the more 'worn out' do...

if there was a good way and an easy way of de... drugging people then well it would have been done by now..

don't like any drugs being decriminalised other than weed.. it is perhaps the less lethal of the mental drugs on hand.. however, we have
to take into account the personality of people themselves... this is less known and is less apparent to others who don't know how drugs
operate... it isn't as simple as a lot of you are wanting to think, say, and there is no actual playing with it...
 

Leeda

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There existed, for a time during 1968, a program in Melbourne, whereby LSD was used as an experimental treatment for those suffering from profound depression. The chap I knew who was enrolled in the program, overseen by a psychiatrist. benefited considerably from its use. He didn't become perfect, but was vastly improved. Prior to its administration, he was verging on catatonia and was unable to relate to the world, other than through a very few people who'd known him quite a while. The use of LSD made him far less afraid of people he didn't know. It made him much more sensibly involved with society generally.

It must be said that there was one conspicuous side-effect of his use of the drug. He painted everything in his flat black. Not just the walls, but the floors and even the ashtrays and crockery. His curtains could be no other colour than black. Somewhat of a peculiar reaction, but hey, he was a lot better off than he had been. That everything around him was black seemed to soothe him, despite some seeing that such a lifestyle in itself might be depressing.

He was one of those who had his regular doses of LSD curtailed because of the antics of Leary. I lost contact with him shortly after this, so don't know how he got on later in life..
one of your most interesting personalities encountered.. we are all not all sound... ;)
 

Snake_Baker

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Pfffft, as if!
some people gravitate to drugs and take them for a year or less, but don't get addicted.. while some go all hog and smash furniture and homes and so on
at least the more 'worn out' do...

if there was a good way and an easy way of de... drugging people then well it would have been done by now..

don't like any drugs being decriminalised other than weed.. it is perhaps the less lethal of the mental drugs on hand.. however, we have
to take into account the personality of people themselves... this is less known and is less apparent to others who don't know how drugs
operate... it isn't as simple as a lot of you are wanting to think, say, and there is no actual playing with it...

It's an incredibly complex combination of factors that cannot engage simple explanation.

Personally, I took drugs because I like what it did to my CNS. It was overwhelmingly fun, and heightened many experiences I have had in my life. I had my times with some issues, but once I matured, it was always a positive event.
 
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Snake_Baker

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Pfffft, as if!
Article full of bullshit. Cia got its hands on German scientists who developed fluoride used in Pow camps to make them more controllable and better workers.

They lead brain warfare.
****en what?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ease up there mate.

Look up the una bomber. Genius sent to collage underage and exploited at harvad in the mk ultra program.
Yeah, I know about Kuczynski, but you're getting a little of course here mate.
 

Leeda

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Neither of you are worthy to call yourselves a snake.
it just means they can be or claim leglessness.. you know what I am saying.. they are perpetuating a myth that
cool is to be rivers of um something... blind and yet know where to go...
 
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****en what?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ease up there mate.
.
You brought up mk ultra. That scene from a few good men. Where Jack nicholson says to Tom cruise " you can't handle the truth"

It's very fitting for conversations with you.

There was senate inquiry into mk ultra. Most of the evidence disappeared. Just like nasa used the developers of the v1 and v2 rockets. The cia used the developers of fluoride for thier experiments.

Look up operation paperclip.

Fluoride is the active ingredient in prozac. Its so funny reading the bots in this thread saying pot is so dangerous.
 
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