Mega Thread Delist/Trade/Draft Super-mega-ultrathread

[Obeanie1]

WOW that's one dooosey multi quote show down taking place there.

The who won the Judd tade will be answered over the next couple of years. If Carlton wins a flag with Judd and we miss out they win, if it goes the other way we win.

Simple formula really..........just need to wait and see. I'm very confident with the balance of our list and Carlton still has issues back and forward.

 

[Ian Dargie]

If Carlton wins a flag with Judd and we miss out they win, if it goes the other way we win.

Patently nonsense. The kind of soundbite wisdom that goes down a treat among mouth-breathers in pubs, basically because it's easy to remember, but is about as resilient as a wet fart when examined more closely.

Surely it depends on the actual performances of Masten and Kennedy rather than the one-dimensional metric of whether we win a flag or not.

What if Masten and Kennedy both fail to improve further but we win a flag on the backs of Shuey, Kerr, Naitanui, LeCras, Hurn, Gaff and Darling et al? Do we automatically win the Judd trade irrespective of the contributions of Masten and Kennedy?

Tell me, if we win a flag before Port, does that mean we somehow won the Brad Ebert trade? Even though everyone here agrees we got stooged.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Patently nonsense. The kind of soundbite wisdom that goes down a treat among mouth-breathers in pubs, basically because it's easy to remember, but is about as resilient as a wet fart when examined more closely.

Surely it depends on the actual performances of Masten and Kennedy rather than the utterly simplistic metric of whether we win a flag or not.

What if Masten and Kennedy both fail to improve further but we win a flag on the backs of Shuey, Kerr, Naitanui, LeCras and Darling? Do we automatically win the Judd trade irrespective of the contributions of Masten and Kennedy?

Sure, it's simple. But it's also bullshit.

We dont win the trade but at least we can give it to the Carlton fans and all the Eagles Haters!

 

[mattyc75]

Patently nonsense. The kind of soundbite wisdom that goes down a treat among mouth-breathers in pubs, basically because it's easy to remember, but is about as resilient as a wet fart when examined more closely.

Surely it depends on the actual performances of Masten and Kennedy rather than the one-dimensional metric of whether we win a flag or not.

What if Masten and Kennedy both fail to improve further but we win a flag on the backs of Shuey, Kerr, Naitanui, LeCras, Hurn, Gaff and Darling et al? Do we automatically win the Judd trade irrespective of the contributions of Masten and Kennedy?

i guess we got some of those players because we were a shite team after losing judd and cousins so yes judd leaving would have been a win ,long term.The actual trade tho is tougher to judge

 

[Chris_6678]

Shuey just signed up for 2 more years story tommorow.

 

[larrikin]

Shuey just signed up for 2 more years story tommorow.

That's great news for two reasons

1. It's great news
2. It stops me having to warn people to avoid engaging in point scoring arguments about events that happened 5 years ago
3. Shue is a legend

 

[Eastern Rangers]

That's great news for two reasons

1. It's great news
2. It stops me having to warn people to avoid engaging in point scoring arguments about events that happened 5 years ago
3. Shue is a legend

4. Is not Judd.

 

[QS]

Good news. By all accounts boots loves it at the Eagles. Who wouldn't with larrikins such as JK and Masten, swannies such as Nic Nat, and blokes good for music sesh's who work FiveStrings like a bawse such as Mark Nicoski.

...yep it's half time in the United game.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Terrific, I thought that they would have offered him 3 though.

 

[dajesmac]

Terrific, I thought that they would have offered him 3 though.

Might've been an extension of two years. When was his current contract supposed to expire?

Either way it's effectively 2013 + two more.

 

[Ian Dargie]

i guess we got some of those players because we were a shite team after losing judd and cousins so yes judd leaving would have been a win ,long term.

You don't get to attribute every good thing that has happened to the club since Judd left to Judd leaving.

Judd left. We bottomed out and that allowed us to draft Naitanui and Gaff. But those are separate events. The addition of those players through early picks in subsequent years doesn't retroactively improve the lukewarm deal we got for Judd.

Or do we just add up every good player we've drafted in the past five years and conclude that we mightn't have drafted them had Judd stayed, so even though we were forced to accept unders for the best mid in the comp, it was somehow a win for us?

That makes no sense.

The actual trade tho is tougher to judge

But it's the 'actual trade' that we're discussing, isn't it? And is it really so tough to judge?

Judd aged 24 for Masten and Kennedy and pick 20, which we blew on Notte?

I am optimistic about both Masten and Kennedy but neither have yet shown they are top-liners. Kennedy has done more than Masten and I believe his best footy is ahead of him but he's still only had two good seasons at West Coast. Masten probably doesn't even have that much under his belt.

Masten and Kennedy have both played 70-odd games in five seasons at West Coast and have both shown glimpses – Kennedy in particular – but you wouldn't talk about either as AA contenders or being among our best 5 players. Judd, meanwhile, went to Carlton and won three B&Fs, four AAs and a Brownlow and remains their most important player.

So can you really argue – based on stuff that has actually happened and not on some pipedream where Masten and Kennedy become superstars next season – that it's anything other than a clear win for Carlton? Both at the time and in hindsight?

 

[no1bankteller]

That's great news for two reasons

1. It's great news
2. It stops me having to warn people to avoid engaging in point scoring arguments about events that happened 5 years ago
3. Shue is a legend

How is your counting going?

 

[new breed]

This guy is the new Judd , looks like Kerry Packer though !

 

[run2dmax]

Isn't that a screen shot from a James Bond movie?

 

[mattyc75]

You don't get to attribute every good thing that has happened to the club since Judd left to Judd leaving.

Judd left. We bottomed out and that allowed us to draft Naitanui and Gaff. But those are separate events. The addition of those players through early picks in subsequent years doesn't retroactively improve the lukewarm deal we got for Judd.

Or do we just add up every good player we've drafted in the past five years and conclude that we mightn't have drafted them had Judd stayed, so even though we were forced to accept unders for the best mid in the comp, it was somehow a win for us?

That makes no sense.

But it's the 'actual trade' that we're discussing, isn't it? And is it really so tough to judge?

Judd aged 24 for Masten and Kennedy and pick 20, which we blew on Notte?

I am optimistic about both Masten and Kennedy but neither have yet shown they are top-liners. Kennedy has done more than Masten and I believe his best footy is ahead of him but he's still only had two good seasons at West Coast. Masten probably doesn't even have that much under his belt.

Masten and Kennedy have both played 70-odd games in five seasons at West Coast and have both shown glimpses – Kennedy in particular – but you wouldn't talk about either as AA contenders or being among our best 5 players. Judd, meanwhile, went to Carlton and won three B&Fs, four AAs and a Brownlow and remains their most important player.

So can you really argue – based on stuff that has actually happened and not on some pipedream where Masten and Kennedy become superstars next season – that it's anything other than a clear win for Carlton? Both at the time and in hindsight?

i just think without judd leaving the eagles wouldnt have bottomed out so we wouldnt have got our hands on the talent we now have so whilst as you say we might have lost the trade and been worse off in the subsequent 2 years we are now in a better position than we would have been had he stayed.

 

[larrikin]

How is your counting going?

You're very alert

 

[Belgarion]

That's great news for two reasons

1. It's great news
2. It stops me having to warn people to avoid engaging in point scoring arguments about events that happened 5 years ago
3. Shue is a legend

This thumping of the chest and arguing ad infinitum minor points, tires me so fast that I skim anything said by these posters. Some of them think themselves as smart, but they are so "smart" that go around the circle and finished as "stupid."

 

[the harry]

This thumping of the chest and arguing ad infinitum minor points, tires me so fast that I skim anything said by these posters. Some of them think themselves as smart, but they are so "smart" that go around the circle and finished as "stupid."

If only there was someway to ignore certain posters......

 

[Double the Fist]

You're very alert

But not alarmed.

 

[QS]

This thumping of the chest and arguing ad infinitum minor points, tires me so fast that I skim anything said by these posters. Some of them think themselves as smart, but they are so "smart" that go around the circle and finished as "stupid."

I disagree

 

[Jack_the_Ninja]

This guy is the new Judd , looks like Kerry Packer though !

Who would we be prepared to trade for to get Omeara ?

 

[flamingEMBERS]

holy shit we should have thrown an older player or two at GWS last year

 

[the harry]

holy shit we should have thrown an older player or two at GWS last year

Brown and Stevens...... and then some.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Brown and Stevens...... and then some.

Swift and Lynch?

 

[Ian Dargie]

i just think without judd leaving the eagles wouldnt have bottomed out so we wouldnt have got our hands on the talent we now have so whilst as you say we might have lost the trade and been worse off in the subsequent 2 years we are now in a better position than we would have been had he stayed.

Who would we have drafted in the parallel universe in which Judd stayed?

You are looking at all the progress the club has made in recent years and retroactively attributing it to Judd leaving. Sorry, but it's illogical.

Judd leaving, and what we got in return, was a poke in the eye. The fact that we have recovered strongly doesn't alter that. Our strength is not a by-product of the setback. One is independent of the other.

If we win a flag in the next 2-3 years, will people attribute that to Judd leaving? Surely we should attribute it to hard work and good drafting in the years since.