D2 Division 2 2018

[watchdog1987]

There just isn't that many people who want to be umpires. I heard it might be something to do with all the crap they have to put up with?

I don't have any easy answers. Better minds than mine have grappled with the problem for years. $$$ isn't it - I've umpired with people who were quite upfront about having no interest in the game other than as a source of part time income. You don't want them.

You can attract people who want to maintain fitness for summer sports and put them on the boundary without hassle. Goal umpires can get away with lesser fitness although it is still an absolute requirement at the premier level; knowledge of the game, ability to concentrate, maintain composure and decisiveness under pressure are important. VAFA hasn't lowered the bar for entry and I don't think they should. Stacking the numbers with kids and nuffies just to supply umpires to games is not fair on the teams, spectators or the umpires themselves.

So what's your solution, watchdog?

Gee whiz where do i start.

Maybe this is the simplest way.

VAFA hasn't lowered the bar for entry and I don't think they should

You do realize to become an umpire for reserves its simply an online course and maybe appear at head quarters for less than 2 hours.

Not to mention the club can literally get anyone to do these jobs of boundary/goal. Ive seen SENIOR players throw the ball in themselves this year. Yes a senior team couldn't supply a boundary umpure. So i dont know what lowering the bar is but far out i dont think it could get much lower!

Stacking the numbers with kids and nuffies just to supply umpires to games is not fair on the teams, spectators or the umpires themselves.

Ah? Thats what plenty of clubs are using to fill these rolls. Whats not fair is teams not being able to supply these umpires and playing without boundary umpires. Have you seen the quality of some reserves umpires not to mention teams boundary and goal they supply.

no interest in the game other than as a source of part time income. You don't want them.

Are you actually trolling? We dont want umpires who are purely there for the money. WTF do most people in Australia go to work for? seriously. Do we only want passionate career umpires running around in D2 amateurs. Your view is purely fantasy.

$$$ isn't it - I've umpired with people who were quite upfront about having no interest in the game other than as a source of part time income.

Ah so you literally contradicted yourself because you just stated they will do it for part time income.


Umpires are a basic allowance every other league caters for.

 

[Over The Post]

How did I contradict myself? I find it incredible that you would rather pay someone who knows nothing about footy and is not interested in learning about footy, than have someone from a club who knows about the game and is keen to join in.

"You do realize to become an umpire for reserves its simply an online course and maybe appear at head quarters for less than 2 hours."

We were talking about VAFA-supplied paid boundary and goal umpires, not reserves field umpires.

"Do we only want passionate career umpires running around in D2 amateurs. Your view is purely fantasy. "

If clubs are paying for umpires, then they have every right to expect umpires who are competent. Competence means showing up on time to the right ground, knowing the rules, being able to apply them fairly and being fit enough to maintain performance for four quarters. Certainly nothing you wouldn't expect from every player. Doing the job they are being paid for does not require them to be a passionate career umpire.

If the depth of talent at your club means you can only shanghai someone who doesn't want to be there and will spend the game lounging on the fence with their hands in their pockets, then you have a club problem not an umpire problem.

"The long and short of it is the VAFA is happy keeping these lower division clubs money while probably pissing it away on pointless tours to Ireland for their elite. Umpire are a basic allowance every other league caters for."

Perceived and actual indifference to the lower divisions has been an issue since the time of Tutunkhamun. I agree that umpires should be supplied, especially considering the allocation of club registration fees. I'm totally with you.

My questions are these:
- where are these umpires going to come from?
- why do you think VAFA has not and is not doing everything they can to attract more umpires?
- what do you suggest they do that they have not already done?

Given that I have already stated from my own first hand experience umpiring, that you do NOT want people with no interest in footy who are only there because it pays more than the supermarket.

 

[Jimmyjack]

Spare me. What does the size of the league have to do with it?

There is 4 million people in Melbourne I’m sure if they wanted to they could hire umpires. But it’s just easier getting local clubs already strained of volunteers to do it for free.

The size of the league is clearly backed up by an administration to suit. So regardless of 10 or 100 teams they should be able to source the nessary umpires to run it.


Do bigger companies stop offering basic service due to expansion?

Seriously ? I am no VAFA apologist but you would have to be living on Mars not to know about the critical shortage of umpires across every junior and senior competition in the country (including other codes). You can’t hire them if they simply don’t exist. So unless you are aware of some magical umpire tree growing where we can just pluck a few off as required we have to do the best we can with the resources available. Not ideal but until idiots stop abusing and assaulting umpires then things are unlikely to change.

I know for a fact that much smaller competitions are also struggling to fill their rosters, so if a 1 or 2 division league with maybe 1 underage grade battles then it becomes a monumental issue for the biggest football competition in the country.

 

[watchdog1987]

Seriously ? I am no VAFA apologist but you would have to be living on Mars not to know about the critical shortage of umpires across every junior and senior competition in the country (including other codes). You can’t hire them if they simply don’t exist. So unless you are aware of some magical umpire tree growing where we can just pluck a few off as required we have to do the best we can with the resources available. Not ideal but until idiots stop abusing and assaulting umpires then things are unlikely to change.

I know for a fact that much smaller competitions are also struggling to fill their rosters, so if a 1 or 2 division league with maybe 1 underage grade battles then it becomes a monumental issue for the biggest football competition in the country.

Critical umpire shortage but magically as I’ve stated every other league manages to supply.

 

[Jimmyjack]

Critical umpire shortage but magically as I’ve stated every other league manages to supply.

No they don’t.

Must be great living in Utopia. Things a bit more difficult here in the land of reality.

Do the math. A bit easier to find 30 than it is to find 300 but even filling smaller umpire rosters is proving to be a challenge for some competitions. Comparing the VAFA to tiny suburban and country leagues is simply idiotic.

 

[sam mitchell]

After the weekend sureley friers are the in form team to beat. Hard to choose against the team that knocked off leaders. #nitasjet

 

[watchdog1987]

No they don’t.

Must be great living in Utopia. Things a bit more difficult here in the land of reality.

Do the math. A bit easier to find 30 than it is to find 300 but even filling smaller umpire rosters is proving to be a challenge for some competitions. Comparing the VAFA to tiny suburban and country leagues is simply idiotic.

I don’t understand your maths argument..


When the league expands so does the administration and so should the umpiring base.

Like any company. There is no difference. You can’t just expand and not provide a critical service.

Eastern might have a 20 person administration to recruit and source 200 umpires. Vafa may have 50 person administration to source 500.

When’s the last time you’ve seen or heard vafa advertising for umpires?

The vafa have reach all over Melbourne. If you think they couldn’t recruit umpires you are simply naive.

 

[Over The Post]

You still haven't answered my questions.

"Critical umpire shortage but magically as I’ve stated every other league manages to supply."
It might be an eyeopener for you to go and see the umpires some metro leagues supply in the name of covering all games. Free kicks where both sides stop and look at the umpire because nobody knows what it is for and who got it, then 50s paid because someone asked. Ball goes through for a goal, fieldie gives goal all clear, goal umpire says behind, it went on the other side of the post... fieldie comes in and says its definitely a goal, goal umpire changes story to "it just grazed the post" when he was on the line at the OTHER post... ball goes through for a goal and is punched away in disgust by a defender standing a metre behind, goal umpire rules "touched" from somewhere near the boundary... have you any idea how frustrating it is to watch? And these umpires back up and do both reserves and seniors, because the league "covers all games" and the second half of the seniors is farcical because all the umpires are out on their feet, cannot keep up with the play, and can no longer concentrate and have flawed decision making as a result.

Do I blame the umpires? Sounds like it. On game day I sometimes can't hold it in and join in the chorus. But is it really their fault? Or is it the fault of the league insisting that all games are covered, even though they do not have the numbers to do so, and are forced to use kids and borderline competent adults just to fill the holes? Is it fair to expect a reserves-grade umpire to run a full game, then ten minutes later come out and do a reasonable job umpiring another full game at a faster pace and with higher stakes on the line? Thank god the VAFA have not gone down this path.

I'd really like to know where you think all these umpires are going to magically appear from.

 

[sam mitchell]

YV by 30 (players out)
OP by 8 goals
EMMAUS by 30
WF by 100
ELTHAM by 6 goals

 

[Navyblues09]

There are twice as many goal umpires in the VAFA compared to the EFL who struggle to fill their 4 senior divisions. The quality of VAFA umpires is also far superior and the money offered is much better.

I do wonder where people think we will find all these umpires, for the talk of reaches over Melbourne, how many who live in the outer suburbs want to travel to Elsternwick? Then travel to Peninsula or Essendon on a Saturday?

If they won’t join their local league where training is 5 minutes away and the longest trip on Saturday is 20, why would they join the VAFA?

Everyone would love to rid the league of club umpires, but it’s just not possible

 

[WithThePeanuts]

Critical umpire shortage but magically as I’ve stated every other league manages to supply.

You’re delusional

 

[WithThePeanuts]

Were you there? Can you provide any clarity re the runner on the goal line, since any time there's a runner within a few metres of the ball or blocking where a player may want to run it's paid a free kick. Or for instances after the siren I assume no score

If the runner is in the 50 for a set shot it is a free kick against the runner so shot wouldn’t even have been taken.

 

[watchdog1987]

You still haven't answered my questions.

"Critical umpire shortage but magically as I’ve stated every other league manages to supply."
It might be an eyeopener for you to go and see the umpires some metro leagues supply in the name of covering all games. Free kicks where both sides stop and look at the umpire because nobody knows what it is for and who got it, then 50s paid because someone asked. Ball goes through for a goal, fieldie gives goal all clear, goal umpire says behind, it went on the other side of the post... fieldie comes in and says its definitely a goal, goal umpire changes story to "it just grazed the post" when he was on the line at the OTHER post... ball goes through for a goal and is punched away in disgust by a defender standing a metre behind, goal umpire rules "touched" from somewhere near the boundary... have you any idea how frustrating it is to watch? And these umpires back up and do both reserves and seniors, because the league "covers all games" and the second half of the seniors is farcical because all the umpires are out on their feet, cannot keep up with the play, and can no longer concentrate and have flawed decision making as a result.

Do I blame the umpires? Sounds like it. On game day I sometimes can't hold it in and join in the chorus. But is it really their fault? Or is it the fault of the league insisting that all games are covered, even though they do not have the numbers to do so, and are forced to use kids and borderline competent adults just to fill the holes? Is it fair to expect a reserves-grade umpire to run a full game, then ten minutes later come out and do a reasonable job umpiring another full game at a faster pace and with higher stakes on the line? Thank god the VAFA have not gone down this path.

I'd really like to know where you think all these umpires are going to magically appear from.

It might be an eyeopener for you to go and see the umpires some metro leagues supply in the name of covering all games.
Again you say the quality of the league supplied umpires in metro leagues are poor when the VAFA reserves requirements is literally an online course and the other umpires goal and boundary are given to ANYONE with no training whatsoever. Ive seen kids from 10 years old boundary and clubs no even supply in both grades.

You would be no worse off. Ive seen plenty of metro and vafa games and the vafa reserves umpiring standard is horrendous with NO standard set by the vafa.

I'd really like to know where you think all these umpires are going to magically appear from.

Im not saying it would happen overnight but again the VAFA should have the resources in place to recruit umpires. Then again why bother spending money on that when they just get clubs to do it?

There are twice as many goal umpires in the VAFA compared to the EFL who struggle to fill their 4 senior divisions. The quality of VAFA umpires is also far superior and the money offered is much better.

I do wonder where people think we will find all these umpires, for the talk of reaches over Melbourne, how many who live in the outer suburbs want to travel to Elsternwick? Then travel to Peninsula or Essendon on a Saturday?

If they won’t join their local league where training is 5 minutes away and the longest trip on Saturday is 20, why would they join the VAFA?

Everyone would love to rid the league of club umpires, but it’s just not possible

The quality of VAFA umpires is also far superior and the money offered is much better.

random club people are used in most games besides senior field. How can you say they are better than supplied metro league umpires?

I saw a d2 side not even supply a boundary umpire throwing the ball in themselves. Its actually embarrassing.

I do wonder where people think we will find all these umpires, for the talk of reaches over Melbourne, how many who live in the outer suburbs want to travel to Elsternwick? Then travel to Peninsula or Essendon on a Saturday?

Do what any decent business does who is spread around melbourne. Have sections N,S,E,W. They only do that section hence travel isn't an issue. Like i said with so many teams and so much money the vafa could actively recruit umpires goal, boundary and field.

You’re delusional

Cool arguement. Amazing the eastern, northern football league, Yarra Ranges (besides reserves goal umpires) ect are all league supplied but some how the VAFA has a critical shortage.

 

[watchdog1987]

How did I contradict myself? I find it incredible that you would rather pay someone who knows nothing about footy and is not interested in learning about footy, than have someone from a club who knows about the game and is keen to join in.

"You do realize to become an umpire for reserves its simply an online course and maybe appear at head quarters for less than 2 hours."

We were talking about VAFA-supplied paid boundary and goal umpires, not reserves field umpires.

"Do we only want passionate career umpires running around in D2 amateurs. Your view is purely fantasy. "

If clubs are paying for umpires, then they have every right to expect umpires who are competent. Competence means showing up on time to the right ground, knowing the rules, being able to apply them fairly and being fit enough to maintain performance for four quarters. Certainly nothing you wouldn't expect from every player. Doing the job they are being paid for does not require them to be a passionate career umpire.

If the depth of talent at your club means you can only shanghai someone who doesn't want to be there and will spend the game lounging on the fence with their hands in their pockets, then you have a club problem not an umpire problem.

"The long and short of it is the VAFA is happy keeping these lower division clubs money while probably pissing it away on pointless tours to Ireland for their elite. Umpire are a basic allowance every other league caters for."

Perceived and actual indifference to the lower divisions has been an issue since the time of Tutunkhamun. I agree that umpires should be supplied, especially considering the allocation of club registration fees. I'm totally with you.

My questions are these:
- where are these umpires going to come from?
- why do you think VAFA has not and is not doing everything they can to attract more umpires?
- what do you suggest they do that they have not already done?

Given that I have already stated from my own first hand experience umpiring, that you do NOT want people with no interest in footy who are only there because it pays more than the supermarket.

- where are these umpires going to come from?
Like i said there is 4 million in Melbourne and plenty of people looking for work.

- why do you think VAFA has not and is not doing everything they can to attract more umpires?
Ive never seen a single piece of advertisement looking for umpire.

- what do you suggest they do that they have not already done?
Facebook advertisement? Instagram Add? Email advertising looking for umpires might be a start?


Given that I have already stated from my own first hand experience umpiring, that you do NOT want people with no interest in footy who are only there because it pays more than the supermarket.

Why? Are the people clubs are supplying better than this? Is it better to have no boundary as witnessed this year and have that team throwing it in?

Have you watched a d2 game? Literally every club supplied umpire boundary or goal is either someones old man, injured player or a reserves player missing out.

 

[Over The Post]

"Do what any decent business does who is spread around melbourne. Have sections N,S,E,W. They only do that section hence travel isn't an issue. "

I lived in Hoppers Crossing and trained twice a week at Elsternwick. The only "western section" games were at Westbourne, Werribee, Williamstown, St Bernards and PEGS. Maybe you could stretch "western" to include Parkville and Brunswick. Not very practical to umpire D4 one week and A the next.

If you are umpiring in the divisions, VAFA allocate games as close to home as possible, which may come as a surprise. But as you climb the tree the rules are different - in B and A section umpires are expected to travel to where the games are. It goes with the territory.

But for some years now umpire training has also been held on a Wednesday night in the west, to attract new umpires for whom travel to Elsternwick is an issue. Pazza has all the info on that.

"The VAFA random club eople volunteer in most games besides senior field. How can you say they are better than supplied metro league umpires?"
"Why? Are the people clubs are supplying better than this? Is it better to have no boundary as witnessed this year and have that team throwing it in? "

Because they would not be there supporting and volunteering at their club, unless they were interested in the game, and passionate enough to put some effort into it. Do you want a player to throw the ball in properly, or a tired and stressed kid who can't throw 5 metres into a breeze and has to have it recalled time after time?

"Ive never seen a single piece of advertisement looking for umpire."

You've not been around long, or looked very hard.

"Like i said there is 4 million in Melbourne and plenty of people looking for work."

Excellent. Find some with football knowledge, a bit of fitness, an interest in the game and willingness to learn how to umpire. The doors at Elsternwick and Westbourne are always open.

I think I've said enough.

 

[bedford]

Critical umpire shortage but magically as I’ve stated every other league manages to supply.

You have no idea

 

[Navyblues09]

The quality of VAFA umpires is also far superior and the money offered is much better.

random club people are used in most games besides senior field. How can you say they are better than supplied metro league umpires?

I saw a d2 side not even supply a boundary umpire throwing the ball in themselves. Its actually embarrassing.

I do wonder where people think we will find all these umpires, for the talk of reaches over Melbourne, how many who live in the outer suburbs want to travel to Elsternwick? Then travel to Peninsula or Essendon on a Saturday?

Do what any decent business does who is spread around melbourne. Have sections N,S,E,W. They only do that section hence travel isn't an issue. Like i said with so many teams and so much money the vafa could actively recruit umpires goal, boundary and field.



Cool arguement. Amazing the eastern, northern football league, Yarra Ranges (besides reserves goal umpires) ect are all league supplied but some how the VAFA has a critical shortage.

EFL supplies field umpires for 12 sections (seniors, reserves, 19s), goals for 5. To achieve that there is a large number of double and triple ups just to achieve this

VAFA provide field umpires for 7 senior sections, 3 reserve sections, 8 womens sections, 7 u 19 sections and 5 thirds sections. They don’t provide field umpires in just 4 reserves sections. Goal and boundary umpires are spread across the 7 senior sections and 7 u 19 sections. You make it sound like there are club umpires everywhere in the VAFA and in no other comp. Go watch EFL div 2 reserves and see if there are any league supplied goal and boundary umpires...

As over the post pointed out, limiting umpires to location doesn’t work, some umpires want to do the best games whilst some don’t like to travel. But you can’t have a one size fits all system.

But if you have a strategy to recruit another 100 field umpires, 300 goal umpires and 300 boundary umpires, I am sure Haydn would love to hear from you as would every umpiring body in Australia

 

[watchdog1987]

We can go round and round. My view is a much more active effort could be made.

 

[washedup85]

YV by 1 Think they might just get over the line considering that have so many superstars out
OP by 25 (Boundy to kick 10) Think UHS will struggle on bigger ground
EMMAUS by 33 points
WF by 97 points
ELTHAM by 1 point

 

[footyp1e]

YV by 1 Think they might just get over the line considering that have so many superstars out
OP by 25 (Boundy to kick 10) Think UHS will struggle on bigger ground
EMMAUS by 33 points
WF by 97 points
ELTHAM by 1 point

Anyone know whether all these yarra 'superstars' are away or injured? I mean with only 3 rounds to go, will they actually get to this ominous level of strength people are floating?

 

[footyp1e]

After the weekend sureley friers are the in form team to beat. Hard to choose against the team that knocked off leaders. #nitasjet

Anyones guess who is really the team to beat, would still have UHS > Friars personally. Big ground didn't seem to be an issue when they played at WF.

 

[sam mitchell]

Anyone know whether all these yarra 'superstars' are away or injured? I mean with only 3 rounds to go, will they actually get to this ominous level of strength people are floating?

At least 10 to come back

 

[footyp1e]

At least 10 to come back

Have you seen them play at full strength? They good enough to win it all?

 

[arthur mccarthur]

Anyones guess who is really the team to beat, would still have UHS > Friars personally. Big ground didn't seem to be an issue when they played at WF.

Wouldn’t say Friars is a big ground, pretty standard size. From all reports Uni High are a young quick team so you would think a big ground would suit them

 

[sam mitchell]

Have you seen them play at full strength? They good enough to win it all?

Think so, big bodies strong forwards.