Do Carlton need to undertake a list rebuild?

[Sherrinator]

Need to let De Koening go and get a couple first round mids. Don’t need a million dollar ruckman.

 

[Mr Meow]

List in unbalanced just as Melbourne were before they addressed their outside runners and ball use issues.

Can have all the stars, but if there's no complimentary players on the outside it won't work.

Cripps, Hewett, Cerra and Walsh in 2026 are not going to have a Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw 2021 kind of midfield season. Their best chance of that was probably 2023 or 2024.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Cripps, Hewett, Cerra and Walsh in 2026 are not going to have a Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw 2021 kind of midfield season. Their best chance of that was probably 2023 or 2024.

Yeah most likely, don't feel like we really need them to though.

If Cerra and Walsh could go back to hitting basic kicks to space inside 50 that would be an instant improvement regardless of whether they get back to career best form overall.

Cripps and Hewett will always be good ball winners, the class on the outside needs to change considerably or their work will continue to be wasted.

 

[Mr Meow]

Yeah most likely, don't feel like we really need them to though.

If Cerra and Walsh could go back to hitting basic kicks to space inside 50 that would be an instant improvement regardless of whether they get back to career best form overall.

Cripps and Hewett will always be good ball winners, the class on the outside needs to change considerably or their work will continue to be wasted.

The one that concerns me a bit is Cripps. He's still won a fair bit of footy, but has looked much more like an Oliver-style (2024-2025) plodder than last year. Late career Fyfe is where his output looks headed. I'm not saying that to troll, it's just how he's playing.

 

[SuperSteele22]

The problem with Carlton is that their list has been outrageously overrated for a considerable period of time to the point that almost the entire football community believed they had one of the better lists in the competition. Their club, their supporters, opposition supporters, media figures and many others actually somehow believed that it was a premiership calibre list. The reality is they have a very good best four or five players and after that the talent falls away considerably yet no one recognised it. Personally I'm expecting things to get worse for them before they get better unless they recruit exceptionally well in the next two or three offseasons

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The one that concerns me a bit is Cripps. He's still won a fair bit of footy, but has looked much more like an Oliver-style (2024-2025) plodder than last year. Late career Fyfe is where his output looks headed. I'm not saying that to troll, it's just how he's playing.

Eh Crippa tends to go through up and down seasons. He had a similar year in 2023 after his spectacular 2022. If it remains the norm in 2026 I'll be concerned but he tends to either have a standout year or a fairly ordinary one. Hasn't looked the same physically since round 4 or 5 when he took a big hit to his back which he's had issues with in the past. Could just be a matter of playing crap in a crap team too... Idk, a wait and see for next season.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The problem with Carlton is that their list has been outrageously overrated for a considerable period of time to the point that almost the entire football community believed they had one of the better lists in the competition. Their club, their supporters, opposition supporters, media figures and many others actually somehow believed that it was a premiership calibre list. The reality is they have a very good best four or five players and after that the talent falls away considerably yet no one recognised it. Personally I'm expecting things to get worse for them before they get better unless they recruit exceptionally well in the next two or three offseasons

Which 4 or 5 players are they?

And who are those in the next tier down?

This seems to always be presented as a point until the most basic of list analysis is undertaken.

 

[SuperSteele22]

Which 4 or 5 players are they?

And who are those in the next tier down?

This seems to always be presented as a point until the most basic of list analysis is undertaken.

The best players are Cripps, Weitering, De Koning, Walsh and maybe Hewitt or Curnow.

The rest would have to work their ass off to get a regular game in a side contending for a premiership

 

[bzparkes]

I actually can't believe Weitering's played 200 games already. Doesn't feel like he's been around that long.

Poor bloke...

 

[Freomaniac]

Do we need yet another Carlton thread?
Smith hasn't played a game so saying he's a "beauty" really is premature.
Never heard of the other ones you mentioned.
Hollands is shit.
Of course they need a rebuild. FFS. They are absolutely shit house.
Just not sure why we need yet another thread on Carlton

Yes we do.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The best players are Cripps, Weitering, De Koning, Walsh and maybe Hewitt or Curnow.

The rest would have to work their ass off to get a regular game in a side contending for a premiership

Newman struggle to get a game would he?
McKay?
Silvagni?
Cerra?

Jeepers... Any wonder no team is trying to poach any Blues players this off season!

Oh wait...

 

[Bald Headed Flog]

Feels like the issue is how top heavy they are. They put all eggs in one basket - constantly trying to bundle together all their assets (salary and picks) to concentrate it on small numbers of players.

Like trading multiple decent role players (Kennedy, Owies) and two years worth of picks to get Jagga Smith. Their best 5-10 players is as good as any other side, but they’ve badly overpaid to poach some average players (Williams, Cerra) while letting a heart and soul player like Kennedy go. The fact that Silvagni is being linked to a move to the Pies is disgraceful. He goes, and it’s the nail in the coffin for their current list imo.

A hard rebuild isn’t needed. But a change in philosophy to how they build their list is absolutely required. Letting TDK and someone like Walsh, McKay or Curnow go is for zero benefit if they’re just going to go all in on another top end pick again. But if they use that opportunity to more evenly distribute talent across all lines, it could go a long way toward refreshing this list in the next few years.

 

[SuperSteele22]

Newman struggle to get a game would he?
McKay?
Silvagni?
Cerra?

Jeepers... Any wonder no team is trying to poach any Blues players this off season!

Oh wait...

Newman isn't a bad player, sure, I'll be generous and give you another

Cerra is a good ordinary player. A battler that could probably hide in a good side and just do enough to avoid criticism in a poor side

However if you think that Jack Silvagni would be used in a strong football program on a week to week basis for any other reason than just to plug holes and cover best 23 players then there's not a whole lot of reason to have a genuine discussion with you

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Newman isn't a bad player, sure, I'll be generous and give you another

Cerra is a good ordinary player. A battler that could probably hide in a good side and just do enough to avoid criticism in a poor side

However if you think that Jack Silvagni would be used in a strong football program on a week to week basis for any other reason than just to plug holes and cover best 23 players then there's not a whole lot of reason to have a genuine discussion with you

Newman who was top 2 in our BnF the last two years and was one of the best general defenders in the comp... Generous

Silvagni... You do know your team is currently trying to poach him offering him a 5 year deal yeah? Perhaps you haven't watched him since about 2019 when he was struggling.

Absolutely clueless .

 

[SSSSSS]

Not a very good side without the brown paper bags.

Rebuilds are hard work. Not sure they've got it in them.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

Yes

 

[demondavey]

The problem with Carlton is that their list has been outrageously overrated for a considerable period of time to the point that almost the entire football community believed they had one of the better lists in the competition. Their club, their supporters, opposition supporters, media figures and many others actually somehow believed that it was a premiership calibre list. The reality is they have a very good best four or five players and after that the talent falls away considerably yet no one recognised it. Personally I'm expecting things to get worse for them before they get better unless they recruit exceptionally well in the next two or three offseasons

But in all fairness, who is Collingwood’s best 4-5? I mean you have a list that pulls their weight. They play to a plan and execute the basics the best.

Daicos
Moore
Elliott
Daicos
Pendlebury?

I can’t believe that the group Carlton has are simply that inept.

Cripps
Walsh
Cerra
Saad
Hewett
Williams
Curnow
Weitering
McKay

I mean it’s simply not a bad group.

I’ve no idea where or why this is going wrong. Maybe it is Voss? Maybe the talent is there but the leadership isn’t?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

But in all fairness, who is Collingwood’s best 4-5? I mean you have a list that pulls their weight. They play to a plan and execute the basics the best.

Daicos
Moore
Elliott
Daicos
Pendlebury?

I can’t believe that the group Carlton has are simply that inept.

Cripps
Walsh
Cerra
Saad
Hewett
Williams
Curnow
Weitering
McKay

I mean it’s simply not a bad group.

I’ve no idea where or why this is going wrong. Maybe it is Voss? Maybe the talent is there but the leadership isn’t?

Quite simple for this year imo.

Basically career worst seasons for Walsh, Mckay, Curnow, Cripps, Docherty and Saad. Cerra been far below his best, Weitering too.

Add to that missing Newman, Elijah Hollands and a few other role players for extended periods.

Our best player this year has been Hewett who's meant to be our 4th option defensive mid. Sums it up quite well I think.

 

[demondavey]

Quite simple for this year imo.

Basically career worst seasons for Walsh, Mckay, Curnow, Cripps, Docherty and Saad. Cerra been far below his best, Weitering too.

Add to that missing Newman, Elijah Hollands and a few other role players for extended periods.

Our best player this year has been Hewett who's meant to be our 4th option defensive mid. Sums it up quite well I think.

Point stands. The list is there. The biggest issue you have is now age. If you made some adjustments in the off season I could see top 4 next year.

 

[demondavey]

Fadge add some comments and less emojis

Come on fella, I know you’re lurking

 

[Fadge]

But in all fairness, who is Collingwood’s best 4-5? I mean you have a list that pulls their weight. They play to a plan and execute the basics the best.

Daicos
Moore
Elliott
Daicos
Pendlebury?

I can’t believe that the group Carlton has are simply that inept.

Cripps
Walsh
Cerra
Saad
Hewett
Williams
Curnow
Weitering
McKay

I mean it’s simply not a bad group.

I’ve no idea where or why this is going wrong. Maybe it is Voss? Maybe the talent is there but the leadership isn’t?

I've said for the last 5 years that Carlton need their top 6 firing on all cylinders, to even have a chance at contending for a top 4 position, because they simply do not have the quality and depth beneath them on their list.

When they went on their run at the back end of 2023, their top 6 were all travelling as well as you could expect any top 6 to be going (McKay the only player to miss a single finals game of the 3 players). They also had their perennially injured players - Cuningham, Marchbank, Martin - all on the park. But that run was overstated by a fortunate back end fixture where they played certain teams at the right time, had some results go their way due to some dubious umpiring decisions, and they won their first two finals despite having a combined 12 fewer scoring shots than their opposition.

This year, we've seen their top 6 struggle, and guess what has happened? It was there for all to see.

You struggle to name Collingwood's top 5, because they are such an even team. Would you have had Elliott anywhere near our top 5 before the start of the season? De Goey when up and running is certainly one of our best 5 players, and a proven finals performer. He's barely played this season. Mitchell finished 4th in our best and fairest in a premiership year, and was one of our best players in the Grand Final, but he too has barely played, and we've seen Ned Long emerge from nowhere to perform a similar role.

I don't think Collingwood have played a game this season where we've had fewer than 5 of our best 22 not playing, whether that's forced by injury, or managed by choice, and we're 2 wins from locking away our top 4 position in preparation for a premiership tilt.

When you compare the lists of Collingwood and Carlton, you really are comparing apples with potatoes.

 

[Fadge]

Fadge add some comments and less emojis

Come on fella, I know you’re lurking

There you go...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Point stands. The list is there. The biggest issue you have is now age. If you made some adjustments in the off season I could see top 4 next year.

On a positive note this year we've seen Silvagni and Williams thrive in new roles and Haynes come in and play some good footy again. We've also had to blood some kids and put more responsibility on others to play a more significant role in the team in the absence of their senior counterparts. Moir, HOF, Hollands, Lord, Carroll and Cowan have all come on and shown some glimpses of their talent through the year.

I'd assume the club would be fairly confident/hopeful that they can get most of those senior players back somewhere near their best in 2026 and in combination with some of the promising kids coming through that they'll be able to bounce back fairly strongly. With that said we've been told by some of our posters who know a bit to expect significant change and a fairly comprehensive cleanout of players like McGovern, Acres, Saad, Fogarty etc. So obviously theres going to have to be some changes to the list around that core group, potentially even losing 1 or 2 big names to facilitate more moves.

 

[demondavey]

There you go...

Marry me, Fadge x

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I've said for the last 5 years that Carlton need their top 6 firing on all cylinders, to even have a chance at contending for a top 4 position, because they simply do not have the quality and depth between them on their list.

When they went on their run at the back end of 2023, their top 6 were all travelling as well as you could expect any top 6 to be going (McKay the only player to miss a single finals game of the 3 players). They also had their perennially injured players - Cuningham, Marchbank, Martin - all on the park. But that run was overstated by a fortunate back end fixture where they played certain teams at the right time, and they won their first two finals despite having a combined 12 fewer scoring shots than their opposition.

This year, we've seen their top 6 struggle, and guess what has happened? It was there for all to see.

You struggle to name Collingwood's top 5, because they are such an even team. Would you have had Elliott anywhere near our top 5 before the start of the season? De Goey when up and running is certainly one of our best 5 players, and a proven finals performer. He's barely played this season. Mitchell finished 4th in our best and fairest in a premiership year, and was one of our best players in the Grand Final, but he too has barely played, and we've seen Ned Long emerge from nowhere to perform a similar role.

I don't think Collingwood have played a game this season where we've had fewer than 5 of our best 22 not playing, whether that's forced by injury, or managed by choice, and we're 2 wins from locking away our top 4 position in preparation for a premiership tilt.

When you compare the lists of Collingwood and Carlton, you really are comparing apples with potatoes.

As always... Kindergarten level analysis.

Is there any team in the competition who would be a chance of contending for a top 4 position without any of their group of 5-6 best players playing well?

Do we reckon Brisbane would be going as well as they are if Neale, Andrews, McCluggage, Zorko, Bailey and Dunkley were all having terrible years by their usual standards?

Geelong if all of Holmes, Smith, Stewart, Cameron, Miers and Dangerfield were?

Collingwood if all of N.Daicos, J.Daicos, Cameron, Moore and De Goey were?

Every team can cover 1 or 2 of their stars being out or down on form if they've got enough quality on their list. But thats not what has occurred with Carlton this season. Basically the entire senior group including most of our players just below our 'A graders' are having career worst seasons. No team in the comp can go well while thats occurring.

Pies had that exact situation occur last season and they didn't even make the 8 despite you tipping them to go back to back that year. It was Nicky or bust for the Pies in 2024 with everyone else looking off their best.