Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[Obeanie1]

Isn't that the same lazy narrative that was used back in 2009? In 2009, Sydney and Richmond had the two oldest lists and both missed the finals in 2009.

They were cooked as GC and GWS were going to get all the top end talent, just when those sides "needed" to rebuild.

Sydney then go on and play in the 2012, 2014 and 2016 GFs and Richmond also make finals 2013-15 before dominating the 2017-20.

The current rebuild landscape is that for clubs that decide to go youth, but get it wrong, you can be out of finals contention for a decade to then build to be just a 5-8 team.

Which clubs decide to just go the youth approach?

 

[g_TRAIN]

Not sure.

They have an excellent coach.

It's very hard to tell how they will perform next year and in coming years.

But yes there are some concerns with access to and existing young talent on the list. Remains to be seen if they can address that.

 

[Pistol Night]

Not sure.

They have an excellent coach.

It's very hard to tell how they will perform next year and in coming years.

But yes there are some concerns with access to and existing young talent on the list. Remains to be seen if they can address that.

If we have a beyond unbelievable run with injury and take some learning from this years “resting” fiasco where we went from 3 games clear on top to that rested and relaxed we forgot how to play footy and lost all form and momentum. A fit DeGoey, Daicos x 2 and McCreery will be the first box to tick. The improvement is the worry. We’re standing still in a way and hoping we can reignite our best with not a lot of outside improvement.

 

[doppleganger]

Which clubs decide to just go the youth approach?

Melbourne and Carlton did back in late 2000s - neither had any success.

Gold Coast and GWS did upon entry, it wasn't really until 2022-23 when GC moved out of having one of the youngest lists - GWS made some finals, but no flags despite claims they would be unbeatable in late 2010s based on the talent they were given at start-up.

Melbourne were back there again mid 2010s after their failed build - this time they got it right and won a flag.

Brisbane went really young in mid to late 2010s - they the only team to get it right really.

Carlton did again, following the rebuild they had to have announcement in 2015 - peaked at a 5-8 team again.

Then North followed them - 10 years outside of finals and 6 in a row not winning 5 games

Freo went young, as did Adelaide around COVID and early 2020s - the clubs have combined for 1 final win since 2017...have they finished building? Will the decade in the wilderness prove fruitful in next few seasons?

Essendon have been bottom 4 youngest for most of 2020s, not really working for them.

Hawthorn were one of the youngest lists from 22-24 - look to have bounced quickly (helped by adding senior talent).

And now WC and Richmond have joined the Essendon in the race to be the youngest list in the mid 2020s.

Most clubs who go full youth tend to spend a decade in the wilderness and no guarantee that they build to anything but a 5-8 team for a few years.

 

[King Patty]

Collingwood just need to rebuild their midfield.

C: S. Sidebottom, J. Crisp, P. Lipinski
FOL: D. Cameron, N. Daicos, S. Pendlebury

They moved on Mitchell.
I would have moved on Sidebottom a couple of years ago, but he is still doing well.
Pendlebury gets to make his call.

They can probably upgrade the midfield via the trade period, get a winger in for a second/third rounder to replace Sidebottom.
And Simpkin from North for a second rounder to get his wage off their books.


Daicos is elite, Cameron, good in ruck. Crisp and Lipinski solid. Pendles still plays at a highs standard
Ned Long plays his role.

Its just the next tier coming through.
Macrae never really came on, whats happening with De Mattia?

 

[Peters_Nuts]

Collingwood just need to rebuild their midfield.

C: S. Sidebottom, J. Crisp, P. Lipinski
FOL: D. Cameron, N. Daicos, S. Pendlebury

They moved on Mitchell.
I would have moved on Sidebottom a couple of years ago, but he is still doing well.
Pendlebury gets to make his call.

They can probably upgrade the midfield via the trade period, get a winger in for a second/third rounder to replace Sidebottom.
And Simpkin from North for a second rounder to get his wage off their books.


Daicos is elite, Cameron, good in ruck. Crisp and Lipinski solid. Pendles still plays at a highs standard
Ned Long plays his role.

Its just the next tier coming through.
Macrae never really came on, whats happening with De Mattia?

Had been playing off half back / the wing in the VFL until he was moved to the middle due to injuries to senior players (Sullivan and Macrae) / players like Long and Allan being called up to the senior list.

When he moved to the midfield early to mid season he got a lot of it though his disposals were quite rushed and weren't effective. Can find the ball, is quick and tackles well so there's something to work with, which was evident when he won the VFL best player award at the club. This will be his first preseason training as an inside mid and realistically it's make or break for him this season. Same with Allan who has the attributes though can't put it all together.

 

[Obeanie1]

Isn't that the same lazy narrative that was used back in 2009? In 2009, Sydney and Richmond had the two oldest lists and both missed the finals in 2009.

They were cooked as GC and GWS were going to get all the top end talent, just when those sides "needed" to rebuild.

Sydney then go on and play in the 2012, 2014 and 2016 GFs and Richmond also make finals 2013-15 before dominating the 2017-20.

The current rebuild landscape is that for clubs that decide to go youth, but get it wrong, you can be out of finals contention for a decade to then build to be just a 5-8 team.

Are we in 2009? Nope.

Bidding rules tightened up.

Draft compromised even further.

Who and how will the Pies replace the quality of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, Crisp, Elliot and the permanent injured De Goey?

That's a quarter of the best 23.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Are we in 2009? Nope.

Bidding rules tightened up.

Draft compromised even further.

Who and how will the Pies replace the quality of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, Crisp, Elliot and the permanent injured De Goey?

That's a quarter of the best 23.

Damn we need to find 6 players over the next 3 years. This isn't a new problem. We found 2-3 new players every year over the last 5 years. DeGoey was injured for most of 24/25 so it's not like we need to find a replacement. It will be a big bonus if he comes back fit. Howe has had a similar injury run to DeGoey (not quite as bad) so he has been replaced in a lot of ways already with Perryman and Houston coming into the backline. Pendlebury and Sidebottom are fading stars. Their output in 2024 and 25 was average, although they are durable. We have brought in players like Steele and Long who go alright and can replace Pendlebury and sidebottoms' roles. Also McCreery looks good in the midfield. If they are not the answer we have recruited a lot of midfield talent. A few of them will probably be given an opportunity. Maybe mature recruit Anderson. Crisp faded late last year but he is good for 3 more seasons imo. He has never missed a game with us but if I had to replace him Parker has shown a bit off half back and Allan has looked okay on the wing. Elliott has no direct replacement although we are stocked with small forwards such as Hill, Schultz, Harrison, Hayes and Sullivan to name a few.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Who and how will the Pies replace the quality of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, Crisp, Elliot and the permanent injured De Goey?

And this is where non Pie fans justify the cliff or fall back or need full rebuild or whatever.

Collingwood in recent years contending have NEVER had the best list in it, the way Collingwood contend is through squeezing the most out of the cattle we got by playing 'system over talent'.

My earlier post states Collingwood have done this throughout their history, the 4 peat machine maybe the exception, possibly 2010. Even then those teams played system footy MM with boundary footy suffocating the opposition was system not talent to execute it. I can't think of a flag outside of that that had THE best list.

So yeah I can see why non Pie posters are salivating 'finally they'll fall down the ladder', and on face value it's justified, but it's probs less so for Collingwood because they do things differently.

 

[doppleganger]

Are we in 2009? Nope.

Correct...unlike back in mid 2000s when being shit gave you a pre first round priority pick, the incentive to shit simply ain't there anymore

Bidding rules tightened up.

Draft compromised even further.

Correct, should help you realize that the draft ain't the answer...but you think being shit to get draft picks is the best approach?

Who and how will the Pies replace the quality of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, Crisp, Elliot and the permanent injured De Goey?

Pendles, Sidey, Howe haven't been our A-grade players for a while now..Howe injured a lot.

If you ain't noticed the Pies most important players are now the Daicos boys, Cameron and IQ, which is reflected in BnF. Perryman also jumped in as a top5 player.

Not sure how hard it is to replace a permanently injured player? We already finished top 4 in 2025 with DeGoey barely playing.

That's a quarter of the best 23.

Grundy and Adams won club BnFs in 2018-20, Treloar was up there too and T.Phillips was 6th and 7th in 18-19.

Most good clubs are replacing 4-5 players in their best 23 each year...and it ain't done solely with 18 year olds who were first round draft picks.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Pendlebury and Sidebottom are fading stars. Their output in 2024 and 25 was average, although they are durable. We have brought in players like Steele and Long who go alright and can replace Pendlebury and sidebottoms' roles.

But but but, they're not Pendles or Sides, so obviously it's going to be a catastrophic fall!! I tells ya.

Meanwhile in reality, neutrals forget we're more a system based team than a personnel reliant team than any other side in the comp.

 

[THE_GUN]

Why are the eagles fans so invested in this thread ?

1 team is regular finals participants and have proven to be a club that never stays down the bottom for long
the other club won just 1 game and finished last by a fair margin and asked for handouts to assist to be competitive

 

[Cyclops]

Why are the eagles fans so invested in this thread ?

1 team is regular finals participants and have proven to be a club that never stays down the bottom for long
the other club won just 1 game and finished last by a fair margin and asked for handouts to assist to be competitive
View attachment 2492801

The Eagles get shafted by the AFL, and yet they're holding up a corner of the map. Its understandable many of them are snakey, they don't get much respect, even though they punch above their weight when they get a chance.

FWIW I think their flags are worth more than ours because its simply harder for them to win.

They showed loyalty to their flag stars after 2018, it cost them but loyalty is a long term investment., You can imagine young Vics sticking with the Eagles now when drafted because they know its a loyal club.

We have been a loyal club too. The fire sale wasn't about loyalty but it was forced on us. Mostly we have the resources to rebuild fast, so we rarely slump for long, and our circumstances are more forgiving.

Its not a fair league, but we're not the Eagles enemy.

 

[Obeanie1]

Correct...unlike back in mid 2000s when being shit gave you a pre first round priority pick, the incentive to shit simply ain't there anymore

Correct, should help you realize that the draft ain't the answer...but you think being shit to get draft picks is the best approach?

Pendles, Sidey, Howe haven't been our A-grade players for a while now..Howe injured a lot.

If you ain't noticed the Pies most important players are now the Daicos boys, Cameron and IQ, which is reflected in BnF. Perryman also jumped in as a top5 player.

Not sure how hard it is to replace a permanently injured player? We already finished top 4 in 2025 with DeGoey barely playing.

Grundy and Adams won club BnFs in 2018-20, Treloar was up there too and T.Phillips was 6th and 7th in 18-19.

Most good clubs are replacing 4-5 players in their best 23 each year...and it ain't done solely with 18 year olds who were first round draft picks.

So nga and father sons cost double in picks than what they did.

Pies don't hold top picks.

So what else is there? Free agents.

And everyone has the same salary cap.

We get it. Pies don't bother with the draft. They get others do the development and purchase talent via trades and FA's.

A quarter of the best 23 is alot to replace in 2 seasons. Especially when you don't have decent picks to trade.

 

[THE_GUN]

The Eagles get shafted by the AFL, and yet they're holding up a corner of the map. Its understandable many of them are snakey, they don't get much respect, even though they punch above their weight when they get a chance.

FWIW I think their flags are worth more than ours because its simply harder for them to win.

They showed loyalty to their flag stars after 2018, it cost them but loyalty is a long term investment., You can imagine young Vics sticking with the Eagles now when drafted because they know its a loyal club.

We have been a loyal club too. The fire sale wasn't about loyalty but it was forced on us. Mostly we have the resources to rebuild fast, so we rarely slump for long, and our circumstances are more forgiving.

Its not a fair league, but we're not the Eagles enemy.

Let me ask Barrass & Allen about that and get back to you
Both WA boys drafted to a WA club and had plans to be 1 club players but were short changed and encouraged to leave due to their club wanting draft picks to fix bad decisions of the past. I have no doubt Reid & Duursma end up back in victoria eventually once they milk as much $$$ out of the eagles.

 

[doppleganger]

So nga and father sons cost double in picks than what they did.

Pies don't hold top picks.

So what else is there? Free agents.

And everyone has the same salary cap.

We get it. Pies don't bother with the draft. They get others do the development and purchase talent via trades and FA's.

A quarter of the best 23 is alot to replace in 2 seasons. Especially when you don't have decent picks to trade.

4-5 new players in the best 23 is nothing special.
Happens most seasons.

 

[THE_GUN]

So nga and father sons cost double in picks than what they did.

Pies don't hold top picks.

So what else is there? Free agents.

And everyone has the same salary cap.

We get it. Pies don't bother with the draft. They get others do the development and purchase talent via trades and FA's.

A quarter of the best 23 is alot to replace in 2 seasons. Especially when you don't have decent picks to trade.

Collingwood is a BIG victorian club that has pull and will always attract big name players to play for them and when they target out of contract players they will get them for under's as do geelong not to mention with free agents.
Once the older players are retired the pies will have plenty of cap space to raid players from interstate and they could easily start this year with Ben King

 

[Worm4]

Collingwood is a BIG victorian club that has pull and will always attract big name players to play for them and when they target out of contract players they will get them for under's as do geelong not to mention with free agents.

They got Houston purely by default ( collingwood wasnt his 1st choice) , i cant think of any other BIG NAME players that have landed there through trade.

 

[THE_GUN]

They got Houston purely by default ( collingwood wasnt his 1st choice) , i cant think of any other BIG NAME players that have landed there through trade.

Who have they actually tried to get that they missed out on ?
Last player i believe is Tom Lynch who made the right choice and went to a better club for less money as a free agent
But i can see them targeting out of contract and free agent players in the next 2-3 years aggressively
McStay was another they targeted and got with a few suiters at the time

 

[WillHayward]

Why are you comparing the two lists?
The 2026 list is the oldest list in the AFL and all of those 30 plus plus players are entrenched best 18.

Correct!

Collingwood were the 12th oldest in 2021. So a young list. There were no "cliffers" back then.
Iirc the criticism was only around salary cap mgt.

 

[doppleganger]

Correct!

Collingwood were the 12th oldest in 2021. So a young list. There were no "cliffers" back then.
Iirc the criticism was only around salary cap mgt.

Pies had the oldest list at the end of 2020.

That was the cliff, as we were flogged in a semi final after coming up short in 18-19.

2021 was post cliff, when we were meant to rebuild through the draft and spend 5 years outside of finals...if following advice of the "experts".

 

[King Patty]

And this is where non Pie fans justify the cliff or fall back or need full rebuild or whatever.

Collingwood in recent years contending have NEVER had the best list in it, the way Collingwood contend is through squeezing the most out of the cattle we got by playing 'system over talent'.

My earlier post states Collingwood have done this throughout their history, the 4 peat machine maybe the exception, possibly 2010. Even then those teams played system footy MM with boundary footy suffocating the opposition was system not talent to execute it. I can't think of a flag outside of that that had THE best list.

So yeah I can see why non Pie posters are salivating 'finally they'll fall down the ladder', and on face value it's justified, but it's probs less so for Collingwood because they do things differently.

also having a premiership winning coach helps when attracting talent plus big club and supporter base. can't see why they would not get free agents to come. like GWS did guys like stringer and Laverde who can play a couple more years and only cost salary and not compromising early picks.

 

[Cyclops]

They got Houston purely by default ( collingwood wasnt his 1st choice) , i cant think of any other BIG NAME players that have landed there through trade.

The other big Vics are so bad right now Pies are the only choice its all coming together baby.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Correct!

Collingwood were the 12th oldest in 2021. So a young list. There were no "cliffers" back then.
Iirc the criticism was only around salary cap mgt.

I’m not sure they understand players like Pendles Sidebottom Howe Crisp Elliot aren’t easily replaced.

 

[EagleMan87]

Why are the eagles fans so invested in this thread ?

1 team is regular finals participants and have proven to be a club that never stays down the bottom for long
the other club won just 1 game and finished last by a fair margin and asked for handouts to assist to be competitive
View attachment 2492801

Funny, that was us until 2020.

But seriously dude, is everything ok? Did some West Coast supporters hurt your feelings in the other thread?