Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[Peters_Nuts]

Don't think it's unreasonable to suggest their list is approaching a cliff, but it also isn't unreasonable for pies fans to claim this has been said before and they proved it wrong.

I won't write them off just yet but they'd want to unearth a few solid role players in the next year or two. I think them being a destination club is a little bit of a myth, if you look at the players they've attracted over the past decade Houston and Treloar are probably the only guys they brought in that were seen as blue chip talents. Pies strength has always been an excellent system and getting the most out of the list they've got.

Probably the most level headed post on here.

Recent history suggests we won’t fall off a cliff because we’ve proven to develop players later in the draft to adopt to our system. I mean look at our 2023 premiership team, it’s littered with late picks, rookie selections and role players acquired from other teams:

Non-first round picks: Murphy, Maynard, McCreery. Josh Daicos was pick 57 with no bids placed on him prior
Rookie picks: Mihocek, Cox, Ginnivan
Role players traded in: Cameron, Crisp, Frampton, Lipinski, Markov

The issue now is that we're not seeing similar players break through from drafts since. We're relying on a mix of Allan, McInnes, West, DeMattia, Harrison, Ryan and Buller to break into the best 23. There's talent there but yet to see consistency from most. We're fairly confident that Long and Roan Steele will be mainstays moving forward but we need 2-3 of the above to kick the door down. If not, then it's very likely that we might have a rough year or two while we wait for our recent draft picks to develop.

It's not panic stations by any means though things can change.

 

[THE_GUN]

Probably the most level headed post on here.

Recent history suggests we won’t fall off a cliff because we’ve proven to develop players later in the draft to adopt to our system. I mean look at our 2023 premiership team, it’s littered with late picks, rookie selections and role players acquired from other teams:

Non-first round picks: Murphy, Maynard, McCreery. Josh Daicos was pick 57 with no bids placed on him prior
Rookie picks: Mihocek, Cox, Ginnivan
Role players traded in: Cameron, Crisp, Frampton, Lipinski, Markov

The issue now is that we're not seeing similar players break through from drafts since. We're relying on a mix of Allan, McInnes, West, DeMattia, Harrison, Ryan and Buller to break into the best 23. There's talent there but yet to see consistency from most. We're fairly confident that Long and Roan Steele will be mainstays moving forward but we need 2-3 of the above to kick the door down. If not, then it's very likely that we might have a rough year or two while we wait for our recent draft picks to develop.

It's not panic stations by any means though things can change.

Would be interesting to see the pies best 26 and under side to have a look at what it may look like in 2-3 years time

 

[schmuttt]

Probably the most level headed post on here.

Recent history suggests we won’t fall off a cliff because we’ve proven to develop players later in the draft to adopt to our system. I mean look at our 2023 premiership team, it’s littered with late picks, rookie selections and role players acquired from other teams:

Non-first round picks: Murphy, Maynard, McCreery. Josh Daicos was pick 57 with no bids placed on him prior
Rookie picks: Mihocek, Cox, Ginnivan
Role players traded in: Cameron, Crisp, Frampton, Lipinski, Markov

The issue now is that we're not seeing similar players break through from drafts since. We're relying on a mix of Allan, McInnes, West, DeMattia, Harrison, Ryan and Buller to break into the best 23. There's talent there but yet to see consistency from most. We're fairly confident that Long and Roan Steele will be mainstays moving forward but we need 2-3 of the above to kick the door down. If not, then it's very likely that we might have a rough year or two while we wait for our recent draft picks to develop.

It's not panic stations by any means though things can change.

Yeah don't disagree with any of that, Collingwood have never been a team to rely on recruiting stars or high picks.

Probably one of the most interesting clubs to watch next year alongside the Saints and Freo in terms of the expectation at the club. I'd probably pick them for 5-8 at this stage just because I can't look past Freo and the two QLD teams, but I don't blame anyone for being confident with the track record they have of being competitive.

 

[doppleganger]

Would be interesting to see the pies best 26 and under side to have a look at what it may look like in 2-3 years time

In 3 years time the list will probably have 20-25 different players on it.

 

[Cyclops]

I wasn't entirely sure Pies got most out of Houston the way he was played this season. There's probably team dynamics im not across, but he is an elite kick yet didnt really get much licence across half back the way he played at Port

My feeling he doesn't fit our gameplan.

Ge was going to Carkton,and they tried to screw Port (a grumpy club, albeit mostly fair).

Pies cooked up a deal where us and Port screwed GCS, and got thd deal done.

Hes a gun we snatvhed cheaply, but he wasn't the Big Fish we were hunting.

Its no secret we've been after quality mids, missed the Suns bloke, the North captain, a few others.

So a star who was a bargain but we already have a swathe of decent halhbacks . We lean more to system than most clubs, and he hasn't fitted our system that well so far.

Its a bit like Grundy at Melbourne.

I expect the coaches and the player to adapt better than Melbourne did.

 

[HeathySure]

My feeling he doesn't fit our gameplan.

Ge was going to Carkton,and they tried to screw Port (a grumpy club, albeit mostly fair).

Pies cooked up a deal where us and Port screwed GCS, and got thd deal done.

Hes a gun we snatvhed cheaply, but he wasn't the Big Fish we were hunting.

Its no secret we've been after quality mids, missed the Suns bloke, the North captain, a few others.

So a star who was a bargain but we already have a swathe of decent halhbacks . We lean more to system than most clubs, and he hasn't fitted our system that well so far.

Its a bit like Grundy at Melbourne.

I expect the coaches and the player to adapt better than Melbourne did.

Houston was an outlier in what we usually bring into our club in that he doesnt have a role that fitted last year. But i reckon he might have a go in the midfield this year, he has played midfield well before,
I also feel like McStay might be tried out back as well, he has played half his career there and if Reef still needs time it just makes sense to me.

Anyway we dont need to tweak too much from last year but i have faith in our coaches in how to shuffle the decks to stay up the top as long as we dont get a big injury list.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Are you concerned about the F50 in 2026? Elliot was superb this year but he's 33 and who knows what's going on with Hill. Cox was average but did play a role that needs to be replaced. Does JDG play more forward than previous years?

Collingwood since Cloke left has had a non conformist, unpredictable multi forward set up. Usually we have about 4 players kicking 30-40 goals with a few more kicking 15-20. We haven't really had a one or two man show for a long time. Elliotts 60 goals last year was partially because Hill was out and Mihocek and McStay were carrying injuries. He wouldn't have kicked that many if we had more forward options.
So who will kick our goals in 2026?

The plan is for an even spread
Elliott 30 goals
Hill 30 goals
Schultz 30 goals
McStay 25 goals
Buller 25 goals
McCreery 15 goals
Harrison 25 goals
With someone like West/Howes/Hayes to come in and provide another option.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Well I have been reading posters saying the exact same thing I said, maybe it's you who can't comprehend.

Years ago I remember you were saying Collingwood didn't have many good young players coming through, and guess what?
they went on and won a flag.
We have players on our list that you think are spuds, but you have no idea about them, what you go on about is an opinion you have had for years and have been proven wrong once, so i'm very sorry, but I will just dismiss your opinion as hope.

I don’t remember ever saying that, but if I did, cool.

You won a flag because you were able to top up and added Nick.

Which brings me back to my continued point in here, when you’ve got the oldest list in the comp, still so heavily reliant on over 30’s and just missed out on three possible trade targets there’s a very big risk that players and their managers will not be interested in joining a club who’s window is closing (as soon as some of these older players decline a little further), and possibly even closed already.

 

[HeathySure]

I don’t remember ever saying that, but if I did, cool.

You won a flag because you were able to top up and added Nick.

Which brings me back to my continued point in here, when you’ve got the oldest list in the comp, still so heavily reliant on over 30’s and just missed out on three possible trade targets there’s a very big risk that players and their managers will not be interested in joining a club who’s window is closing (as soon as some of these older players decline a little further), and possibly even closed already.

you are just making shit up.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

you are just making shit up.

No, I’m using common sense and logic.

 

[HeathySure]

No, I’m using common sense and logic.

With no bias at all obviously.

It doesnt matter if we are a destination club or not. We go after players who suit our needs. Its a much smarter way to go about it than hoping some kid makes it, fits our game plan and not go home or leave for money like Ollie Henry .

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

With no bias at all obviously.

It doesnt matter if we are a destination club or not. We go after players who suit our needs. Its a much smarter way to go about it than hoping some kid makes it, fits our game plan and not go home or leave for money like Ollie Henry .

You sound just like the Collingwood posters that were in a similar thread in May claiming you’d just take your pick of Rowell, LDU or Richards at year’s end.

The list is now a year older, and if you drop off any more than you did in 2025, you won’t have too many players wanting to join the oldest list in the comp on the decline.

 

[Muddiemoose]

With no bias at all obviously.

It doesnt matter if we are a destination club or not. We go after players who suit our needs. It’s a much smarter way to go about it than hoping some kid makes it, fits our game plan and not go home or leave for money like Ollie Henry .

It’s a strategy that sounds good in theory but the main issue is the salary cap

Drafted players who stay at one club, especially stars tend to play for less than stars who have moved

If Collingwood reach the point where they aren’t just looking for role players to fill in the gaps, and given some of the quality that will be retiring over the next 1 - 2 seasons it’s star power that you will need and it won’t be cheap

It also depends on who is available any given year and that might not necessarily meet up with what you need

 

[theprospector]

The mentality of this board is very early 2000s.

You don't want a list of 18 year olds with no plus 30s.

Clubs like North tried this and look where it got them.

We were winning a prelim at halftime with Pendles subbed out.

Think we will be fine.

 

[HeathySure]

You sound just like the Collingwood posters that were in a similar thread in May claiming you’d just take your pick of Rowell, LDU or Richards at year’s end.

The list is now a year older, and if you drop off any more than you did in 2025, you won’t have too many players wanting to join the oldest list in the comp on the decline.

Thats exactly what i didnt say.

 

[HeathySure]

It’s a strategy that sounds good in theory but the main issue is the salary cap

Drafted players who stay at one club, especially stars tend to play for less than stars who have moved

If Collingwood reach the point where they aren’t just looking for role players to fill in the gaps, and given some of the quality that will be retiring over the next 1 - 2 seasons it’s star power that you will need and it won’t be cheap

It also depends on who is available any given year and that might not necessarily meet up with what you need

Our salary cap is fine, We didn't do much trading this year because there wasn't the players we needed out there. We are just paying the waiting game. Despite all the naysayers out there we have a couple of youngsters i think that will play this year like West and Willy (Mayes_ Hayes who i think is very promising. They dont need to play more than 10 to 12 games to start improving, then it seems we might have a crack at Ben King and Butters but that is pure fantasy.

Our strategy is sound, as i keep reminding people we went from 9th to 3rd this year and with a bit of luck we could have gone all the way.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Our salary cap is fine, We didn't do much trading this year because there wasn't the players we needed out there. We are just paying the waiting game. Despite all the naysayers out there we have a couple of youngsters i think that will play this year like West and Willy (Mayes_ Hayes who i think is very promising. They dont need to play more than 10 to 12 games to start improving, then it seems we might have a crack at Ben King and Butters but that is pure fantasy.

Our strategy is sound, as i keep reminding people we went from 9th to 3rd this year and with a bit of luck we could have gone all the way.

I think you will be competitive this next season provided you don’t cop any injuries but the upcoming losses of Pendles, Sidebottom ect will hurt a lot more than a lot of pies supporters seemingly willing to acknowledge

They are top tier caliber players and although they aren’t in the best players on the ground every week anymore they have enough standout games a year to make a difference and that’s before we talk about the on field experience that they would bring to the table in terms of implementation of strategic moves on the fly before the coaches may

It’s not something that can even be really replaced by a player who’s played 100 games

Every team is competitive and playing finals until suddenly they aren’t, and generally speaking the fans still think they are fine even going into that season when the wall hits

Richmond fans were all super bullish going into the 2023 season after losing an elimination final by under a goal to Brisbane with Taranto and Hopper joining our midfield unit that was our weakest line at the time

But alas the weight of losing a few vets and other key players like Lynch and Nank having injury riddled years we didn’t even play finals and led us to the rebuild we are now in

 

[HeathySure]

I think you will be competitive this next season provided you don’t cop any injuries but the upcoming losses of Pendles, Sidebottom ect will hurt a lot more than a lot of pies supporters seemingly willing to acknowledge

They are top tier caliber players and although they aren’t in the best players on the ground every week anymore they have enough standout games a year to make a difference and that’s before we talk about the on field experience that they would bring to the table in terms of implementation of strategic moves on the fly before the coaches may

It’s not something that can even be really replaced by a player who’s played 100 games

Every team is competitive and playing finals until suddenly they aren’t, and generally speaking the fans still think they are fine even going into that season when the wall hits

Richmond fans were all super bullish going into the 2023 season after losing an elimination final by under a goal to Brisbane with Taranto and Hopper joining our midfield unit that was our weakest line at the time

But alas the weight of losing a few vets and other key players like Lynch and Nank having injury riddled years we didn’t even play finals and led us to the rebuild we are now in

The only one that will hurt us massively is Pendles, His on field coaching basically won us the 2023 grand final and his last quarter wasnt too shabby either,

Difference between the Tigers and the Pies is we have Nick daicos who is the best Collingwood player i have ever seen and its not even close. He won us 6 games singlehandedly in 2024 when we had a huge injury list. As long as he is fit and at least 80 percent fit we will finish in the top 10. If we can bring in 2 or 3 decent players every year while he is in his prime we will be fine

 

[Muddiemoose]

The only one that will hurt us massively is Pendles, His on field coaching basically won us the 2023 grand final and his last quarter wasnt too shabby either,

Difference between the Tigers and the Pies is we have Nick daicos who is the best Collingwood player i have ever seen and its not even close. He won us 6 games singlehandedly in 2024 when we had a huge injury list. As long as he is fit and at least 80 percent fit we will finish in the top 10. If we can bring in 2 or 3 decent players every year while he is in his prime we will be fine

I mean sure you have Diacos and he’s a freak, but in the same token we still had Martin who wasn’t exactly a slouch

Gold Coast had prime Ablett but without enough cattle around them they achieved nothing with him

Even with Daicos where exactly are the pies going to actively improve? Because that’s what playing finals year over year is about
Going back to the well with the same won’t get the job done when your rivals are making moves to be better or have the benefit of the improvement that talented youth bring as they gain experience

Hawks, Dogs, Sydney, Brisbane, GWS Adelaide and Gold Coast all look like they will be fielding more experienced and dangerous sides next year
The saints are a genuine wildcard and teams like Freo

Where the Pies (depending on who you ask) will be fielding much the same (without the benefit of improving through high talented youth) or with big ticket trade/ free agents or even backwards depending on how you rate players like Cox and Miochek and thier importance to the pies forward line/ structure

 

[HeathySure]

I mean sure you have Diacos and he’s a freak, but in the same token we still had Martin who wasn’t exactly a slouch

Gold Coast had prime Ablett but without enough cattle around them they achieved nothing with him

Even with Daicos where exactly are the pies going to actively improve? Because that’s what playing finals year over year is about
Going back to the well with the same won’t get the job done when your rivals are making moves to be better or have the benefit of the improvement that talented youth bring as they gain experience

Hawks, Dogs, Sydney, Brisbane, GWS Adelaide and Gold Coast all look like they will be fielding more experienced and dangerous sides next year
The saints are a genuine wildcard and teams like Freo

Where the Pies (depending on who you ask) will be fielding much the same (without the benefit of improving through high talented youth) or with big ticket trade/ free agents or even backwards depending on how you rate players like Cox and Miochek and thier importance to the pies forward line/ structure

Collingwood's infrastructure is way better than the Gold Coast, Even you can admit Dustbin's heart wasn't in playing football in his 30s, Naicos is 4 years off his prime football years if things go normally

 

[Muddiemoose]

Collingwood's infrastructure is way better than the Gold Coast, Even you can admit Dustbin's heart wasn't in playing football in his 30s, Naicos is 4 years off his prime football years if things go normally

What exactly do you mean by infrastructure?
Right now we are purely talking about playing lists and having adequate support around a star player so they can focus on being a match winning star over just trying to make a side competitive

Journeyman and c graders alone won’t cut it, Josh is as only as good as the player he is receiving the ball from or kicking to in the forward line, or the backline functioning as a cohesive unit

If any of those systems fail Nick could be the greatest player of all time but he won’t be able to make a meaningful difference to the pies fortune by himself

We have seen plenty of superstars come and go through the game who haven’t seen or only seen limited success because the side lacked the cattle around them to capitalise

 

[nineteen eighty]

Interested in some of the Pies supporters thoughts on how last year ended up given they fell off a cliff in the last part of the season. I also don’t really think the finals win against Adelaide really counts given how soft they were.

How do the turn this around? The list hasn’t changed too much other than some late draft picks in a thin draft. NDaicos is obviously going to continue to be a gun and there will be a handful that will continue to play at a high level. A number of others are a year older and pace will be an issue for them.

Can the system hold up and keep them in contention for another year? Or will they drop off entirely? Will be a keen watch. They’ll always be thereabouts though with NDaicos playing to an elite level.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Interested in some of the Pies supporters thoughts on how last year ended up given they fell off a cliff in the last part of the season. I also don’t really think the finals win against Adelaide really counts given how soft they were.

How do the turn this around? The list hasn’t changed too much other than some late draft picks in a thin draft. NDaicos is obviously going to continue to be a gun and there will be a handful that will continue to play at a high level. A number of others are a year older and pace will be an issue for them.

Can the system hold up and keep them in contention for another year? Or will they drop off entirely? Will be a keen watch. They’ll always be thereabouts though with NDaicos playing to an elite level.

Reckon we got into a "dead rubber" mentality too early, blew games against GC and Freo, then fell right away before regrouping in the last game, lucky to finish top 4

Our finals were good, pummelled the top side away and held up ok against the mighty Lions

We're still in a window but I'm expecting a slight drop off while we get games into inexperienced players

2027 no excuses, flag run

 

[HeathySure]

What exactly do you mean by infrastructure?
Right now we are purely talking about playing lists and having adequate support around a star player so they can focus on being a match winning star over just trying to make a side competitive

Journeyman and c graders alone won’t cut it, Josh is as only as good as the player he is receiving the ball from or kicking to in the forward line, or the backline functioning as a cohesive unit

If any of those systems fail Nick could be the greatest player of all time but he won’t be able to make a meaningful difference to the pies fortune by himself

We have seen plenty of superstars come and go through the game who haven’t seen or only seen limited success because the side lacked the cattle around them to capitalise

Infrastructure like coaching, club culture, committee, administration etc. All clubs up the top have good infrastructure. Macrae is a top 3 coach who implements a system that works, he won a flag with a list that is not the best list or even a top 3 list.
There are many factors that go into a side staying up and not just the players

 

[VicBased]

Collingwood are always a chance . The 14 odd games at the G and the non travel burden benefits them greatly and keeps them in a small window on nearly a permanent basis.