Review Dogs win in a heart stopper over the Suns : 51-46 - Rd 8, 2020

[Yojimbo]

I wouldn't go as far as to call it pathetic but it wasn't in great taste. I know you didn't mean anything by it but it can easily be interpreted as being derogatory.

Luckily she does not wear the number 17 then. (Love the Libba portrait in your avatar very classy)

Please don't dislike this i am joking.

 

[perro_loco]

See bolded section from this article in the Hun from 2018. Charlie Bucket you should take a look at this also, because you might be surprised to learn this isn't just something a few nuffies on BigFooty made up.

Selecting Billy Gowers in last year’s rookie draft dramatically changed the Western Bulldogs

JON RALPH, Herald Sun
May 17, 2018 7:00pm

IT STARTED with a text from Luke Beveridge. It ended with the head recruiter going to Sydney. JON RALPH goes inside the backstory of Jake Stringer’s replacement, Billy Gowers.

LUKE Beveridge sent a text to Billy Gowers a week before last November’s rookie draft, inviting him to dinner.
On the menu — Dana Beveridge’s slow-cooked lamb and sweet potatoes, plus Gowers’ football future.

Gowers, 21, had spent two turbulent years under three senior coaches as a Carlton rookie and was the final player cut in late 2016.

Then, as he worked full-time in real estate, the strong-bodied Xavier College product blossomed under Beveridge’s nose in the Footscray VFL side.

Beveridge, now a premiership coach at the Western Bulldogs, had kept an eye on Gowers but wanted to know what made him tick.

“It was the week before the rookie draft and I had only just got to work and he messaged me saying, ‘I would love to catch up for dinner and have a chat’,” Gowers recalled this week.

“I went around to his place and his wife Dana cooked up a nice meal and we had a one-on-one chat about what had been going on for the 10-12 months since I had been delisted by Carlton. He was generally interested in me and what I had been doing and what I was thinking.

“I had spoken to my manager and I thought it was a bit of a job interview, so I went in quite prepared and left thinking, ‘That was completely different to what I was expecting’.

“He wanted to know if I had enjoyed my footy at Footscray, about my work life. Some people forget that some blokes don’t want to play AFL again after they have experienced it already.

“I was expecting hard-hitting questions, but he is just so caring and knowledgeable about a lot of things — obviously footy, but the other side of things with day-to-day life.

“So I think that night was to make sure I was fully on board and whether I really wanted to prove myself as a footballer and person again.”

Eight rounds into this season, you can take it as read that Billy Gowers MkII is fully on board.

Not only has he kicked a goal in every game (two in each of his past four) he leads the Dogs’ goal tally with 12.

Last weekend against Brisbane, the son of former Hawk and Lion Andrew Gowers looked the most assured and dynamic forward on the ground.

Effectively, he is playing Jake Stringer’s former role at perhaps a quarter of his salary and with demonstrably less histrionics.

To be frank, his recruitment was the subject of a significant power struggle between Beveridge and recruiter Simon Dalrymple, but more of that later.

So back to that dinner at the Beveridge house and whether it contained any hidden traps.

“It was beautiful, slow cooked lamb and sweet potatoes and a nice salad,” Gowers said. “She even offered me some chocolate Lindt balls, but I didn’t take them. I thought, ‘That might have been a little test, so I thought I won’t do that’.”

A frothy or a cheeky glass or shiraz?

“Yeah, he offered me a stubby, but I was driving so that was my excuse,” Gowers replied.

If he looks a Stringer clone, it is no coincidence. As the Dogs were going through their list management battles late in the season, they knew Stringer was probably on the outer.

Beveridge kept coming back to this kid from the VFL and what he could do for the Dogs’ forward line. He wanted Gowers as the club’s first and only rookie pick.

Dalrymple had been scouting another young player all year and strongly felt he deserved the right to select the player his recruiting team had at the top of their list.

An insider laughed as he described the “robust discussions” that took place as coach and recruiter considered who they would take.

They effectively resulted in Dalrymple being overruled and Gowers taken over the other young player, who remains undrafted but likely to emerge on a club list this November.

Dalrymple was contracted for 2018 but left for Sydney, believing Beveridge had broken his own rule about “letting the bakers bake”.

He believed he had built up enough credits through rookie picks Jason Johannisen and Luke Dahlhaus to be handed the power to select the Dogs’ only rookie pick last year.

It was the final straw, and Sam Power now is at the top of a list management structure as the “single point of responsibility for decisions”, as Western Bulldogs chief executive Ameet Bains described it.

They are the kind of internal power struggles that must be so commonplace in football, but rarely emerge publicly.

What is beyond question is that right now Gowers looks a player.

As Kevin Sheedy has often said, the recruiter could pick someone, but Sheedy as senior coach had to want to play him.

Alastair Clarkson overruled list manager Chris Pelchen to recruit Stuart Dew, and it won Hawthorn the 2008 premiership.

For his part, Gowers is just happy Beveridge wanted him.

“I really don’t know about that, to be honest,’’ he said of the power struggle.

“Maybe it might give you a bit more confidence, but once you are at the club you still have to earn the respect of all the coaches and players.”

Gowers credits the Dogs’ VFL affiliate with reigniting his love for the game, a year spent working with real estate firm Vic Prop selling and leasing properties giving him a taste of the real world.

“It feels like it was a lifetime ago I was at Carlton,” he said. “It was only a year and a half ago and I am still finding my feet with adapting to full-time footy again but, in saying that, I am loving it.

“I have been asked the question of what went wrong at Carlton, but I think it was a bit of a maturity thing.

“There were heaps of changes in a short amount of time, three senior coaches in two years, a heap of different development coaches, senior assistants. Only 13 or 14 blokes are still there from when I was there, which is an amazing stat.

“Ultimately I wasn’t playing well enough to keep my spot and yet technically I was the last bloke not to get picked. It was out of me and Andrew Gallucci and he took that rookie spot.”

This time around Gowers doesn’t want to leave anything to chance.

“Last year was about enjoying my footy and this year I want to be a regular player in the team and give value for effort and be of value to the club.”

I understand now what you meant. Thanks! Do you know who Dalrymple's rookie choice was? Or is that a secret or unknown?

 

[perro_loco]

this adds no value to the game review thread. Gowers plays for the dogs now, is a fringe player struggling. We can bemoan it a bit but enough’s enough. This is pathetic. Stop derailing the thread.

Mate he is not derailing the thread. He answered my question. I have to say that there is a fine line between a recruiter and what the coach wants. In football (the round ball) the coach has basically the ulimate decision. I would agree that the coach should have the final say as to who is recruited or not. Having said that, both the recruiter and the coach have to work closely. if the recruiter does not match the coach's philosophy he has to go. I would crack it if I were the coach and I want one type of player and the recruiter is barking up the wrong tree. The buck stops with the coach imo.

 

[perro_loco]

I think Richards could hold down a wing. It feels like his tackling pressure has gone up a notch this year which is pleasing, but he still seems to fade in and out of games a bit. Less so than previously, but he needs to get his hands on the ball more often than he does.

Cody was playing on pure adrenaline in his first game and there was a lot to like. Once that wore off in his second game he came down to earth pretty hard and playing in the wet didn't seem to suit him. He's a chance to make way but my gut feel is he will get another game next week. He's also a chance to just need a rest after a slog in the wet though.

I think two games is ample experience for him. He has a long way to go imo. Huge talent, but best him learning the game and getting the odd game atm. We need Mclean back in the side. Dicko has to come in imo. cannot carry passengers any more.

 

[dogwatch]

I'm a la.young fan, maybe one of very few.
I have decided I think his best position will become high hff. His not short (191cm) has a huge tank to hit the wings, is a good kick (haven't seen it at afl level yet) and has a good burst of pace

Club website has him at 189cm and 81kg.

 

[Proffessor]

Really? There is nothing in this post that I agree with. Young will play next week. He'll get better with every game. Why do we think that a guy whose played sfa gamed should play like Hunter or Bontempelli? He's probably our 27th best player at best. Give him a break and before you know it he'll be best 22.

Perhaps you should address my points then, as I will address yours.

1. He may well play next week, and therein lies our club's problem, because he is being played in front of a number of better players. This not only risks losing games we might otherwise win, it also risks the players he is being selected in front of becoming disgruntled.
2. He has had 8 games so far and hasn't shown significant weekly improvement thus far.
3. Where did I say he should play like Hunter or Bontempelli?
4. I would rate him lower than that, probably ~35th at this point.
5. I've said a number of times that I would like him to play well and make my criticism of him look silly.

I think the best chance of that would be if he plays a bunch of games at a lower level, builds his confidence and then plays accordingly at senior level.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I vaguely remember the Foster's cup - IIRC some of the SA teams played in it or am I dreaming...I have a memory of exactly what you described above nd we were playing Norwood or someone like that....

Yeah, I was a bit later than that. I was talking early to mid 90s. We always seemed to lose first up.

 

[Dogs Rule]

He's a 21 year old with no dependants, on the main list. I doubt he's slinging 2 minute noodles 6 nights out of 7.

Ah, those were the days...

 

[Munnez]

Gutsy win, but if we go into next week with that forward line, we’ve got no chance. Gowers never again. I’d prefer a park footballer. Seriously, he is all sorts of bad, at least Porter gave us something 2nd half.

The backline is just simply brillent, what annoy's me is we had a functioning Fwd line there for 3 weeks and now i don't know what's the plan.

It's what happens when you play trier's instead of natural forwards. We do have a couple on the list I believe

 

[Munnez]

We lost him for a match, and gave away twice as many points as we did in our other matches.

Breaks down the backline structure and the synergy that they have been building. Having Crozier there gives the guys confidence that at worst most of the time he will halve the contest. And a lot of the time intercept, so the rest know they can roll off and get involved. Either with mopping up or a handball receive.
Crozier has become an important piece of the backline!!

 

[Brass Dog]

Hilariously ironic.

Yeah, was thinking the same thing. Isn’t it hilarious that whenever someone is using the ‘snowflake’ appellation they are invariably whining about something.

 

[Mutt]

Perhaps you should address my points then, as I will address yours.

1. He may well play next week, and therein lies our club's problem, because he is being played in front of a number of better players. This not only risks losing games we might otherwise win, it also risks the players he is being selected in front of becoming disgruntled.
2. He has had 8 games so far and hasn't shown significant weekly improvement thus far.
3. Where did I say he should play like Hunter or Bontempelli?
4. I would rate him lower than that, probably ~35th at this point.
5. I've said a number of times that I would like him to play well and make my criticism of him look silly.

I think the best chance of that would be if he plays a bunch of games at a lower level, builds his confidence and then plays accordingly at senior level.

Fair enough Proff. In re-reading my post my tone was not great - didn't mean to be disrespectful but looking back it reads poorly. Apologies.

 

[Mister Snrub]

I understand now what you meant. Thanks! Do you know who Dalrymple's rookie choice was? Or is that a secret or unknown?

I can't recall the name (maybe someone else can) but the kid never got drafted at all, not even in future years. Maybe we could have developed him into something, but it would appear Bevo was right about Gowers being the better choice.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

I watched him closely last night all game. He gave pretty much nothing. He wasnt clean when he gathered the ball under mild pressure. When he got the ball, he was sloppy and missed targets especially with the handball, handpassing it behind players or not to their advantage. When he was in marking contests 9/10 he flew at the wrong time and didn't get near the ball, and when the ball came to ground he was a step or 2 behind his direct opponent or not where the ball was. I don't believe he chased hard at all defensively, and when he got a rare chance , he missed a simple snap in the goal square to ice the game which would have put us up around 20 points, and then we have all spoken about the lack of IQ with the abhorrent kick with 30 to go inside the corridor when an under 12 footballer would know that was suicide.

He simply isn't up to AFL standard, and the match committee needs to stop kidding themselves and playing the bloke when he's clearly out of his depth. The 7 or so blokes such as McLean, Trengrove, West etc who are not getting picked ahead of him have every right to be annoyed..

Yes there were other passengers last night, but as many have said, they have seen enough of Billy to know the expirerment is over and the ship has well and truly sailed.

We are a 3-4 goal better team without him. And Gardner also.. Sorry. And if the PC snowflakes around here are going to get all up in arms and think we need to be gentle or the world will come to an end , well tough T**ty...

Serious question, Were you at the game?
If so, lucky and fair enough.
If not, I don't know how you can possibly say you watched anyone closely all night. You watch what that broadcasters want you to watch, which is 1 one hundredth of what is actually happening.

 

[Yojimbo]

I can't recall the name (maybe someone else can) but the kid never got drafted at all, not even in future years. Maybe we could have developed him into something, but it would appear Bevo was right about Gowers being the better choice.

Ben Sloan Mt Gravatt, Redland Junior from Qld NEAFL rising star nomination.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

See bolded section from this article in the Hun from 2018. Charlie Bucket you should take a look at this also, because you might be surprised to learn this isn't just something a few nuffies on BigFooty made up.

Selecting Billy Gowers in last year’s rookie draft dramatically changed the Western Bulldogs

JON RALPH, Herald Sun
May 17, 2018 7:00pm

IT STARTED with a text from Luke Beveridge. It ended with the head recruiter going to Sydney. JON RALPH goes inside the backstory of Jake Stringer’s replacement, Billy Gowers.

LUKE Beveridge sent a text to Billy Gowers a week before last November’s rookie draft, inviting him to dinner.
On the menu — Dana Beveridge’s slow-cooked lamb and sweet potatoes, plus Gowers’ football future.

Gowers, 21, had spent two turbulent years under three senior coaches as a Carlton rookie and was the final player cut in late 2016.

Then, as he worked full-time in real estate, the strong-bodied Xavier College product blossomed under Beveridge’s nose in the Footscray VFL side.

Beveridge, now a premiership coach at the Western Bulldogs, had kept an eye on Gowers but wanted to know what made him tick.

“It was the week before the rookie draft and I had only just got to work and he messaged me saying, ‘I would love to catch up for dinner and have a chat’,” Gowers recalled this week.

“I went around to his place and his wife Dana cooked up a nice meal and we had a one-on-one chat about what had been going on for the 10-12 months since I had been delisted by Carlton. He was generally interested in me and what I had been doing and what I was thinking.

“I had spoken to my manager and I thought it was a bit of a job interview, so I went in quite prepared and left thinking, ‘That was completely different to what I was expecting’.

“He wanted to know if I had enjoyed my footy at Footscray, about my work life. Some people forget that some blokes don’t want to play AFL again after they have experienced it already.

“I was expecting hard-hitting questions, but he is just so caring and knowledgeable about a lot of things — obviously footy, but the other side of things with day-to-day life.

“So I think that night was to make sure I was fully on board and whether I really wanted to prove myself as a footballer and person again.”

Eight rounds into this season, you can take it as read that Billy Gowers MkII is fully on board.

Not only has he kicked a goal in every game (two in each of his past four) he leads the Dogs’ goal tally with 12.

Last weekend against Brisbane, the son of former Hawk and Lion Andrew Gowers looked the most assured and dynamic forward on the ground.

Effectively, he is playing Jake Stringer’s former role at perhaps a quarter of his salary and with demonstrably less histrionics.

To be frank, his recruitment was the subject of a significant power struggle between Beveridge and recruiter Simon Dalrymple, but more of that later.

So back to that dinner at the Beveridge house and whether it contained any hidden traps.

“It was beautiful, slow cooked lamb and sweet potatoes and a nice salad,” Gowers said. “She even offered me some chocolate Lindt balls, but I didn’t take them. I thought, ‘That might have been a little test, so I thought I won’t do that’.”

A frothy or a cheeky glass or shiraz?

“Yeah, he offered me a stubby, but I was driving so that was my excuse,” Gowers replied.

If he looks a Stringer clone, it is no coincidence. As the Dogs were going through their list management battles late in the season, they knew Stringer was probably on the outer.

Beveridge kept coming back to this kid from the VFL and what he could do for the Dogs’ forward line. He wanted Gowers as the club’s first and only rookie pick.

Dalrymple had been scouting another young player all year and strongly felt he deserved the right to select the player his recruiting team had at the top of their list.

An insider laughed as he described the “robust discussions” that took place as coach and recruiter considered who they would take.

They effectively resulted in Dalrymple being overruled and Gowers taken over the other young player, who remains undrafted but likely to emerge on a club list this November.

Dalrymple was contracted for 2018 but left for Sydney, believing Beveridge had broken his own rule about “letting the bakers bake”.

He believed he had built up enough credits through rookie picks Jason Johannisen and Luke Dahlhaus to be handed the power to select the Dogs’ only rookie pick last year.

It was the final straw, and Sam Power now is at the top of a list management structure as the “single point of responsibility for decisions”, as Western Bulldogs chief executive Ameet Bains described it.

They are the kind of internal power struggles that must be so commonplace in football, but rarely emerge publicly.

What is beyond question is that right now Gowers looks a player.

As Kevin Sheedy has often said, the recruiter could pick someone, but Sheedy as senior coach had to want to play him.

Alastair Clarkson overruled list manager Chris Pelchen to recruit Stuart Dew, and it won Hawthorn the 2008 premiership.

For his part, Gowers is just happy Beveridge wanted him.

“I really don’t know about that, to be honest,’’ he said of the power struggle.

“Maybe it might give you a bit more confidence, but once you are at the club you still have to earn the respect of all the coaches and players.”

Gowers credits the Dogs’ VFL affiliate with reigniting his love for the game, a year spent working with real estate firm Vic Prop selling and leasing properties giving him a taste of the real world.

“It feels like it was a lifetime ago I was at Carlton,” he said. “It was only a year and a half ago and I am still finding my feet with adapting to full-time footy again but, in saying that, I am loving it.

“I have been asked the question of what went wrong at Carlton, but I think it was a bit of a maturity thing.

“There were heaps of changes in a short amount of time, three senior coaches in two years, a heap of different development coaches, senior assistants. Only 13 or 14 blokes are still there from when I was there, which is an amazing stat.

“Ultimately I wasn’t playing well enough to keep my spot and yet technically I was the last bloke not to get picked. It was out of me and Andrew Gallucci and he took that rookie spot.”

This time around Gowers doesn’t want to leave anything to chance.

“Last year was about enjoying my footy and this year I want to be a regular player in the team and give value for effort and be of value to the club.”

Whilst that is all factual in relation to how Dalrymple felt about being over ruled he was always going to struggle working under Sam Power and the Dogs were always going to restructure the recruiting department to avoid what had developed between McCartney and Dalrymple ie. they weren’t talking and each one felt they should be in charge.
So in summary I think Dalrymple was always going to leave and blaming the Gowers decision is overlooking everything else that was going on.

 

[Philthy1]

Whilst that is all factual in relation to how Dalrymple felt about being over ruled he was always going to struggle working under Sam Power and the Dogs were always going to restructure the recruiting department to avoid what had developed between McCartney and Dalrymple ie. they weren’t talking and each one felt they should be in charge.
So in summary I think Dalrymple was always going to leave and blaming the Gowers decision is overlooking everything else that was going on.

Correct. Gowers decision was a symptom, not the cause.

 

[AJARWA]

Very different season this year. Not about picking your best 22 each week. But 22 that can get a win. The club that keeps its squad fresh and energised and has 22 of its best 25 available at season's end might just take the cake.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Regarding the criticism of Bevo making a captain’s call in recruiting Gowers, it’s a side issue. Gowers seemed to justify the call in ‘18 but had fallen away since. He only cost us a rookie pick.

If Bevo deserves criticism it’s for playing him, but it’s worth pointing out that it didn’t cost us a game (I know, I know it was close...) and we all know Bevo rewards a good attitude and training form.

Gowers will likely only play in the case of widespread injuries, if ever again, although I can see Bevo playing him next week just as a middle finger to the screaming masses. He’s probably done. No shame in being a leading goal kicker at an AFL club for a season and a fringe player otherwise.

 

[bresker]

Decent list, Mitch Wallis, who I used to rate very highly but something is not quite right, he would not be in the top 10.

I reckon the broken leg has stymied Wallis, he never gets a run through the middle any more. I prefer him forward but he'd be a handy big body when we're getting smashed in the clearances.

 

[dogwatch]

Very different season this year. Not about picking your best 22 each week. But 22 that can get a win. The club that keeps its squad fresh and energised and has 22 of its best 25 available at season's end might just take the cake.

Correct.
There's a different mindset here to what happens in some overseas sports.

Here the expectation is only one game a week, on average, across the season, with a bye thrown in for good measure.
EPL sides normally play 38 H&A games over about 36 weeks as well as League and FA Cup ties and sometimes European competition. For the better performed clubs there may be as many as 50 or more games to navigate. They have to manage player load and recovery pretty much all season, every season.

I hope we have tapped into some of that overseas experience.

 

[Munnez]

He has been displaced by younger players on various lines, Williams as a deep defender, Daniel as a link man, Vandermeer as a winger....

He needs to carve out a new position for himself. His foot skills are still valuable to the team. High half forward might be the best choice.

Don't like to say it but I think you can put a fork in Suckers. Has lost pace and doesnt have any repeat effort in him. Was ok after a week off, but with the compressed schedule I dont think we can afford to carry him any longer

 

[Munnez]

Not saying I like Lachie Young or saying he should be getting a game right now, but many of those skill errors were nervousness/lack of confidence than underlying lack of ability to actually kick a ball.

It's a lot harder to get a bloke to run all day if they don't have the natural fitness than it is to give a bloke more confidence with his kicking.

Some of it may have been nervousness with Lachie Young I also tend to think some of it was that he was just gassed sfter running so hard to make the play. I see some potential there to make a good winger in time.
Such a shame there isn't any VFL for him to hone in on the required skill set , could be a very handy back up.

 

[Munnez]

Laith has some tricks but his best asset in my opinion is his raking long kick. The one he kicked to set up Weightman's first last week and one long and deep to someone (cant remember who) last night were sensational. Reminds me a little of Isaac Smith with a little more agression.

Has some definite campaigner about him does our Laith, and how good is it to see

 

[grassman75]

Ah, those were the days...

When you could do whatever YOU wanted to do....